Dr Elwin Ransom wrote:I’ve suffered from those wrong ideas myself, and rejoiced to find the truth (though not yet total victory over the wrong ideas) that Christians need to balance and have both personal and collective growth in delighting in and knowing God. Too many professing evangelicals say things like "I love God, but I don’t need a church." Or they do acknowledge the Church, but not a need for growth in (Biblically supported) local churches. Some of them downplay or reject the Biblical truth that God made His people to be part of a community, the Church Christ founded and loves — yes, "organized religion," with pastors, elders, deacons, a hierarchy of mutually accountable servant leaders, followers and everyone to grow together. . . .My concern is not nearly so puny as picking just on the "In the Garden" song. But what if you were a church that only wanted to sing songs like "In the Garden" because that’s what it has always done? What if they only wanted songs about how me and Jesus are best buds, and didn’t want even to try songs about the need for evangelism, or the other aspects of God’s nature, or Jesus’ mission to die and take the penalty for sin? Maybe you see now why that would be an issue — and why liking or singing only songs like "In the Garden" would not help at all. No one’s trying to ban "In the Garden" that I know of. I’m not. But regarding Christians who want only the messages of the song "In the Garden," and refuse to grow into other truths of God as well — neither Paul nor the author of Hebrews (possibly the same person?) encourage letting them stay where they are spiritually and not ever "picking" on them. Rather, they encourage such folks to go "further up and further in."
You make some good points! And I sort of already addressed this in a previous post.
Most Christian songs have four basic messages or themes:
1. God's character, which produces worship = we look up.
2. Asking God to do X [save, heal, deliver, lift burden, etc] for us, like a prayer = we look up.
3. Praising God for doing X [salvation, healing, deliverance, etc], like a testimony = God did X for me and He'll do the same for you = we look out [believers and unbelievers].
4. Looking forward to our eternal home in heaven [death, rapture, Second coming, etc] = we look up and out.
. . . But the focus in such songs should still not be on us. It should be on Him and other believers. It's when the focus is on us that a song becomes sick and theologically questionable. Again, as you mentioned, we need a good mix of songs both about the Christian life [God "with" us, not just "us"] and songs about Jesus--His character, beauty, and goodness. . . .We need both personal and corporate worship and Bible study in our lives, not just one or the other. Spending time with God in church and nowhere else, on Sunday and no other day, can make us spiritually sick! Trust me, I know! We need that personal time alone with God. But we can't rely on personal worship and not spend time with other believers either. That can make us spiritually warped too.
We need to sing songs that are Biblically based, which is why I prefer songs with scriptural lyrics and why I have Psalms and Gospels playlists on my Youtube channel. Also, we need personal and corporate time with Jesus. By the way, I should add probably another category to my list of Christian songs above: missions, evangelism, seeking the lost. I have a Youtube playlist for that, too.
Okay,
Song of Solomon!
smartypants wrote:Yes, it can be read literally read as human to human love, but I believe that you have to go deeper and ask for the Lord to reveal it to you personally.
DiGoRyKiRkE wrote:If we're developed enough in our spiritual lives than there isn't a single reason why singles shouldn't read Song of Solomon.
Agreed!
I have a suggestion for all of you. First pray for open eyes and ears. Pray for God to reveal Himself to you. Then read this book.
As a child, I thought
Song of Solomon was a bit graphic but after reading it as a, yes single, adult, I have come to love its beauty, to admire its different levels of meaning, to bask in Jesus’ love for me. Few verses seem gross or overly revealing to me. Yes, it celebrates the marital love between Solomon and a Shulamite woman. This is the literal meaning. But we cannot forget the spiritual implications! The Jews read it at every Passover [God and Israel]. And what is Passover? The literal feast in Exodus and the celebrations thereafter spiritually foreshadowed and was fulfilled at Calvary. The same is true for
Song of Solomon. It spiritually foreshadows and is a fulfillment of the love between Christ and His bride the church. And what makes that possible? Calvary! The theme [and symbolism] of
sacrifice is abundant in this book, for it makes possible a holy love between Christ and us [just like sacrifice is the key to victory and peace]. If we neglect any level of meaning, we are in error. In this book, the king marries a humble shepherdess, like Jesus marries the church. What’s our entrance into the church? Humility at the foot of the cross! And Solomon gives the bride his name! [Remember the name discussion in the "Marriage" thread?
]
FYI:
Scofield Reference Bible: “Nowhere in Scripture does the unspiritual mind tread upon ground so mysterious and incomprehensible as in this book, whereas saintly men and women throughout the ages have found it a source of pure and exquisite delight. . . .The book is the expression of pure marital love as ordained by God in creation, and the vindication of that love as against both asceticism and lust—the two profanations of the holiness of marriage. Its [simultaneous!] interpretation is threefold: (1) as a vivid unfolding of Solomon’s love for a Shulamite girl; (2) as a figurative revelation of God’s love for His covenant people, Israel, the wife of the Lord . . .; and (3) as an allegory of Christ’s love for His heavenly bride, the Church. . . .” (705).
Note: The Holy Spirit revealed this to me as I was reading the book. I have not read this anywhere else [i.e. man’s interpretations]. It’s called comparing scripture with scripture, independent research.
1:2: “Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth, for thy love is better than wine.” 1:4: “We will remember thy love more than wine.” 4:10: “How much better is thy love than wine!”Let’s compare these verses with 2:4: “He brought me to the banqueting house and His banner over me was love.” King David described something similar in Psalm 23:5: “Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies; thou anointest my head with oil, my cup runneth over.” What is our banqueting table? What do we feast on? What is our meat and drink? The Word! Oil is a symbol of the Holy Spirit. And it is He who reveals Christ to us, through the Word. The Hebrew word for “banqueting” in 2:4 is
yayin, which means “wine (as fermented); by implication, intoxication." Christ’s love is better than wine. We should be intoxicated with Him, not with alcohol! We should “be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess, but be filled with the Spirit” [Eph 5:18]. A similar word to
yayin appears in 2:14, when the king calls the bride “my dove.” The Hebrew is
yownah. At Jesus’ baptism, the Holy Spirit descends on Him “like a dove” [Matt 3:16]. This is Christ’s anointing for service [i.e. Lev 8:12]. But why does the king call his bride a dove? Jesus tells us to be “harmless as doves” [Matt 10:16]. And Paul says in Philippians, “Do all things without murmurings and disputing, that ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world” [2:14-15]. According to Scofield, in 2:14 “it is revealed what the bride is as seen in Christ, ‘My dove.’ In herself she is most faulty; in Him, ‘blameless and harmless’ (Phil 2:15), which is the very character of the dove” (706n3). When we are filled with the Spirit, we will be intoxicated with Jesus, anointed for service.
1:3: “Because of the savor of thy good ointments, thy name is as ointment poured forth, therefore do the virgins love thee.”Let’s compare this verse with 1:12: “While the king sitteth at his table, my spikenard sendeth forth the smell thereof.” Does this sound familiar to you? It should! In Matthew 26, Mark 14, Luke 7 [debated], and John 12, as Jesus is sitting at a table, Mary breaks “an alabaster box of precious ointment and pour[s] it on his head” [Matt 26:7]. Jesus says, “She did it for my burial” [26:12]. What is the significance of this? Before He was arrested, Jesus prayed in the garden of Gethsemane with His disciples (Matt 26:36, Mark 14:32, Luke 22:39, John 18:1). In Aramaic, Gethsemane means “oil-press” and comes from the Hebrew words
gath and
shemen.
Gath means “a wine-press,” itself a Hebrew word that in one form,
puwrah, means “crushing the grapes” and comes from the word
puwr, which means “to crush.” In the Bible, this image frequently refers to God’s wrath [Isaiah 63:2-3, Lam 1:15, Rev 14:19-20, 19:15.]
Shemen means “grease, espec. liquid (as from the olive, often perfumed); fig. richness.” In the Old Testament, oil was used to anoint priests [see Ex 30:30, Lev 21:10]. David said, “How good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity! It is like the precious ointment upon the head, that ran down upon the beard, even Aaron’s beard, that went down to the skirts of his garments” [Ps 133:1-2]. He’s describing when Moses anointed Aaron the great high priest with oil, for service in the tabernacle [Lev 8:12]. Jesus Christ the Messiah, our great High Priest, was anointed for service at His baptism in the Jordan River (Matt 3:13-17, Mark 1:9-11, Luke 3:21-22, John 1:31-34). [In Greek, Christ (
christos) means “anointed” and comes from
chrio, which means “to smear or rub with oil . . . to consecrate to an office or religious service.” In Hebrew, Messiah (
mashiyach) means “anointed, usually a consecrated person” and comes from
mashach, which means “to rub with oil, i.e. to anoint; . . . to consecrate.”] So what is the significance of
Gethsemane—crushed oil? On the cross, Jesus was crushed in the winepress of God’s wrath, the curse of God on sinners; physically, emotionally, and spiritually, He suffered what we should have suffered at the hands of God for our sins.
What’s the point of all this? That Christ must be broken. When He fed the 4000 and 5000, Christ blessed and broke the loaves and fishes [Matt 14:19, 15:36, Mark 6:41, 8:6, Luke 9:16, John 6:11]. He blessed and broke bread at the Last Supper [Matt 26:26, Mark 14:22, Luke 22:19], saying “This is my body which is broken for you” [1 Cor 11:24]. So also Christ’s body was broken on Calvary and His blood poured out for us sinners so His anointing can flow through us. We would not know God’s healing for broken bodies, lives, and souls except through Calvary, where Jesus was “broken and spilled out” for us. The name of Jesus is like a healing balm [Jer 8:22, 46:11], truly “ointment poured forth” [Song 1:3]!
1:12: “While the king sitteth at his table, my spikenard sendeth forth the smell thereof.”The Hebrew for “smell” here is
reyach, which comes from
ruwach, a word that basically means wind or breath and is frequently translated as "spirit," i.e. the Holy Spirit. When His anointing flows through us, there is a sweet smell or fragrance! Paul says that God “maketh manifest the savor [fragrance] of His knowledge by us in every place. For we are unto God a sweet savor of Christ” [2 Cor 2:14-15]. He uses the word again in verse 16 to mean “aroma.” And in Ephesians, Paul admonishes us to “walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given Himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling savor” [5:2]. What is Paul referring to here? When Noah offered a sacrifice to God after the flood, “the Lord smelled a sweet savor” [Gen 8:21]. In the wilderness, God told the Israelites to burn various offerings unto Him as a “sweet savor” [Ex 29:18]. The phrase “sweet savor” is ubiquitous in Exodus, Leviticus, and Numbers. How do we exhibit this “sweet savor of Christ” [2 Cor 2:15]? When we “walk in the Spirit” [Gal 5:16] and “crucif[y] the flesh with the affections and lusts” [5:24]. We must be “crucified with Christ” [2:20].
Many spices with sweet fragrances are mentioned in
Song of Solomon: “camphire, with spikenard, spikenard and saffron, calamus and cinnamon, with all trees of frankincense, myrrh and aloes, with all the chief spices” [4:13-14]. Frankincense and myrrh: do they sound familiar to you? They should! When the wise men visited Jesus, “they presented unto Him gifts; gold, and frankincense, and myrrh” [Matt 2:11]. Why? Well, myrrh is a
burial spice. After the Romans crucified Jesus, “they gave Him to drink wine mingled with myrrh, but He received it not” [Mark 15:23]. After Jesus was taken down from the cross, in preparation for His burial, Nicodemus “brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes” [John 19:39]. And the caravan that buys Joseph as a slave and takes him to Egypt [an event foreshadowing Christ on the cross!] consists of “Ishmaelites . . . from Gilead with their camels bearing spicery and balm and myrrh” [Gen 37:25]. Jesus is the “balm in Gilead” [Jer 8:22, 46:11]. Myrrh is also a
wedding spice. The Shulamite woman says, “A bundle of myrrh is my well-beloved unto me; he shall lie all night betwixt my breasts” [Song 1:13]. The king and bridegroom is “perfumed with myrrh and frankincense” [3:6]. [See also 4:6, 5:1, 5, 13.] The harlot Solomon warns his son against in Proverbs says, “I have perfumed my bed with myrrh, aloes, and cinnamon” [7:17]. In Esther, the women chosen as a potential bride for King Ahasuerus are given beauty treatments, “six months with oil of myrrh and six months with sweet odors” [2:12]. And in his prophetic psalm of the king [both Solomon and Christ!], David says, “All thy garments smell of myrrh and aloes and cassia” [45:8]. Finally, myrrh is used in
anointing oil. God tells Moses to make the anointing oil for priests of “pure myrrh . . . sweet cinnamon . . . sweet calamus . . . cassia . . . and of oil olive” [Exodus 30:23-24]. Frankincense, like myrrh, is a
wedding spice [Song 3:6, 4:6, 14]. But it is also
incense used in Old Testament sacrifices, specifically the meat offering [Lev 2:1-2, 15-16, 6:15, Neh 13:5, 9]. God tells Moses to “take . . . sweet spices, stacte [gum from the myrrh tree!], and onycha, and galbanum . . . with pure frankincense . . . and thou shalt make it a perfume . . . tempered together, pure and holy” [Ex 30:34-35]. He also tells Moses to “put pure frankincense upon each row” of the shewbread, a symbol of the Word [Lev 24:7].
“Lord Jesus, make me a sweet savor of You in every place, that others may come to know You. Make me blameless and harmless, without rebuke. Help me walk in the Spirit.” Let this be our prayer today.
Songs from Song of Solomon"Oh draw me Lord" [Selah] - 1:4
“Daystar” [Brooklyn Tab] – 2:1, 5:10
“He is fairer than the lily of the valley” [Brooklyn Tab? Maranatha?] – 2:1
“He’s the lily of the valley” – 2:1, 5:10
“The rose of Sharon” [
Savior Oratorio] – 2:1
“Come away, my love” [Gaither #118] – 2:10-11
“Arise, my love” [Newsong] – 2:13 [Christ’s resurrection! EASTER!
]
“His banner over me is love” – 2:4, 16
"My Beloved" [Kari Jobe, CFNI] - 2:10, 3:7
“Love is the flag [banner!] flown high from the castle of my heart” – 2:4
Book:
Hannah Hurnard, Mountains of Spices [allegory]
EDIT: Creation vs evolution Someone sent me these links earlier today, with quotes by T. H. Huxley.
1. "'Creation,' in the ordinary sense of the word, is perfectly conceivable. I find no difficulty in conceiving that, at some former period, this universe was not in existence; and that it made its appearance in six days . . . in consequence of the volition of some pre-existing Being." --quoted in Leonard Huxley,
Life and Letters of Thomas Henry Huxley, Vol. II (1903), p. 429.
"An admission by Darwin's bulldog" Obviously, belief in God is what he refuses to admit.
2. "That is the expectation to which analogical reasoning leads me; but I beg you once more to recollect that I have no right to call my opinion anything but an act of philosophical faith."
"Understanding the Origin of Life: What Has History Taught Us?"