Christian Themes in the Dawn Treader

C. S. Lewis, his worlds, and his faith.

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Re: Christian Themes in the Dawn Treader

Postby NothinButNarnia » Sep 07, 2009 5:09 pm

I agree eustacegirl. But baptism is not required to be saved. If someone dedicated their life to the Lord on their deathbed and died without being baptized, does that mean they wouldn't go to heaven? No, baptism is a sign to the world and to ourselves that we are leaving our old life behind and serving God whole-heartily for the rest of our lives. But I am glad Lewis incorporated baptism into Eustace's story
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Re: Christian Themes in the Dawn Treader

Postby 220chrisTian » Sep 08, 2009 2:15 pm

NothingButNarnia wrote:Baptism is not required to be saved. If someone dedicated their life to the Lord on their deathbed and died without being baptized, does that mean they wouldn't go to heaven? No, baptism is a sign to the world and to ourselves that we are leaving our old life behind and serving God whole-heartily for the rest of our lives.
Good point. I tried to explain this to a new Christian, which maybe wasn't such a good idea. My example to her was the repentant thief on the cross. Obviously, baptism is important, just like the Lord's Supper/communion. It is a public confession of faith in Christ. But it does not save us. ;)

But like you and Eustacegirl, I'm glad Lewis included it in Eustace's story. The spiritual significance of baptism is rich and deep! :)
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Re: Christian Themes in the Dawn Treader

Postby Sendit2Sue » Sep 09, 2009 8:30 pm

One point that has always struck me as one of the most important themes of this book was Reepicheep being allowed to pass directly into Aslan's country. I have always felt that Lewis was referring to Enoch in the book of Genesis. I believe Reepicheep's entire story illustrates Enoch having a heart that so pleased the Lord that he was taken up into Heaven without ever having to experience death (Gen 5:24). To many, Reepicheep is an amusing character brought in to make the story more fun. To me, however, he has always been an inspiration as a creature wholeheartedly focused on serving his creator.
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Re: Christian Themes in the Dawn Treader

Postby Lark » Sep 10, 2009 11:34 am

I never thought of it like that before,Sendit2Sue. Thanks for sharing your insight! :)

I'm particulary fond of the scene where everyone thinks they're going to be stuck on Nightmare Island forever. Lucy asks Aslan for help and the group is free to continue on their journey. A picture of the power of prayer.
The part where Eustace turns into a dragon and Aslan "cleans" him is probably my favourite,though.
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Re: Christian Themes in the Dawn Treader

Postby narnian1 » Sep 10, 2009 2:34 pm

Lark wrote: I'm particularly fond of the scene where everyone thinks they're going to be stuck on Nightmare Island forever. Lucy asks Aslan for help and the group is free to continue on their journey. A picture of the power of prayer.



Wow,
I really don't see how after so long I've never noticed that.
Never did that thought come into my mind. Wow that's a beautiful picture of the power of prayer.

Thanks for mentioning that.
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Re: Christian Themes in the Dawn Treader

Postby marji4x » Sep 11, 2009 12:37 pm

Senit2Sue, you've beat me to the punch! I think Reepicheep is indeed a sort of Enoch or Elijah. Even the prophecy he'd had on his life smacked of it, and that it was for him alone.

I hope that stays in :)
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Re: Christian Themes in the Dawn Treader

Postby 220chrisTian » Sep 11, 2009 4:03 pm

Sendit2Sue: good point on Enoch! I never noticed that before! I meant to mention Elijah to you after I read your post, but marji4x beat me to that! :ymapplause:
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Re: Christian Themes in the Dawn Treader

Postby Sendit2Sue » Sep 19, 2009 7:28 pm

Marji4x- strangely, the whole notion of Reepicheep's prophecy never even occurred to me. Excellent point. It's almost as though he was guided toward this voyage and, ultimately, Aslan's country from childhood (or "mouseling"hood - whatever you call it for a mouse :p ). From his earliest memories, he was driven to seek the utter east.
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Re: Christian Themes in the Dawn Treader

Postby daughter of the King » Sep 22, 2009 6:41 pm

Many have said this already, but for me too the last chapter at the edge of the world where Aslan appears as a Lamb is the one I most want to see. Not only is it dripping with symbolism(the sacrificial Lamb, Jesus feeding the disciples after the Resurrection, the Lion of Judah), but the entire point of the series occurs here: "...this was the very reason why you were brought into Narnia, that by knowing me here for a little, you may know me better there." Yes, Narnia is not absolute truth and must come under scrutiny to discern fact from fiction, but in the process, we may come to know the real Lion better.
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Re: Christian Themes in the Dawn Treader

Postby Narnia #1 Fan » Sep 23, 2009 5:59 am

I think they should keep in all of them, but especially the one about Eustace and how he becomes a dragon and then is changed by Aslan. This is like when we as Christians are lost in sin and then are renewed by God when we are forgiven of our sins. That to me is probably the most important message that needs to stay in the movie. I pray that God has His hand in the making of this film also.
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Re: Christian Themes in the Dawn Treader

Postby Lady of the Narnians » Sep 24, 2009 7:18 pm

I think that the it is important to keep all of them in the book!!! :D
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Re: Christian Themes in the Dawn Treader

Postby waggawerewolf27 » Sep 25, 2009 5:19 am

Hermitess of Narnia wrote:"Spying on people by magic is the same as spying on them any other way."
Lucy doesn't stop to think about what would be wrong when she is confronted with another way to do things. This can also apply to technology being used to kill preborn babies or the like.


I have to agree with most of what has been said. But why is Lucy spying on her friends, anyway, and being tempted to say the beauty spell? It isn't the technology/magic which is the problem it is Lucy's insecurities. Perhaps a major Christian theme is Lucy's need for acceptance and trust of others, also the team work the crew need to exercise for a successful mission.

Hermitess of Narnia wrote:The fact that Narnia does not allow slavery should be in the movie too.


Oh I agree absolutely. The anti-slavery message in VDT is loud and clear. People need to do things because they want to do them, not because they have been made to do them. Often, like Eustace being transformed from a dragon, they need assistance.
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Re: Christian Themes in the Dawn Treader

Postby Narnia #1 Fan » Sep 25, 2009 5:58 am

Hermitess of Narnia wrote:"Doubt not, Reepicheep, to find all you seek, there is the other east."
Lewis concluded in his lifetime that he was longing for another world because he had actually been made for another world. Reepicheep has a longing for Aslan's Country because he was made for it.

"'Come and have breakfast,' said the lamb."
I find it interesting that the next time Lucy sees Aslan after he rescues them from the dark island he is offering them breakfast! It reminds me of Jesus calming the storm and after that eating fish with the disciples.

"You were only a [donkey], but I was a traitor."
This is important because it shows that Edmund has forgiven him and shows that Eustace should not go on condeming himself for sins that have already been forgiven by Aslan. It also shows that Edmund doesn't have a prideful attitude.

The fact that Narnia does not allow slavery should be in the movie too.



I agree with Hermitess of Narnia on these points in particular. We were all made for another world and that is Heaven and to be with the Lord. Everyone longs for that and is searching for something. I pray that everyone finds God for He said in His Word, “If you seek you will find".

The "Come and have breakfast" line was a very interesting thought because I had never thought of it that way before.

Finally I really like the point that was brought out in the books about how Eustace was only a fool, but that Edmund betrayed his brother and sisters. Eustace was still condemning himself for what he did and I liked how Edmund showed that he was forgiven and therefore so was Eustace. This is the same with God that once we submit to Him and ask for forgiveness. We are to forgiven as long as we continue to repent for things we do wrong and recognize that what we did was wrong.
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Re: Christian Themes in the Dawn Treader

Postby 220chrisTian » Sep 27, 2009 1:45 pm

waggawerewolf27 wrote:
Hermitess of Narnia wrote:The fact that Narnia does not allow slavery should be in the movie too.
Oh I agree absolutely. The anti-slavery message in VDT is loud and clear. People need to do things because they want to do them, not because they have been made to do them. Often, like Eustace being transformed from a dragon, they need assistance.
This anti-slavery theme is something I'd like to discuss in detail ... tomorrow. ;) Just remember: there's physical slavery [Pug on the Lone Islands] and spiritual slavery [Eustace in VDT / Edmund in LWW]. ;)
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Re: Christian Themes in the Dawn Treader

Postby waggawerewolf27 » Sep 27, 2009 3:50 pm

Yes that would be a good discussion point. The question is, which is which? The difference between physical slavery and spiritual slavery, I mean, and how do we define them?

Eustace dragged kicking and screaming into the Narnian world is certainly not a good example of someone being there of their own free will, even before Pug's capturing Caspian and his landing party to sell them as slaves. In some ways it is even possible to feel sorry for him when he wants to get off the expedition.
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Re: Christian Themes in the Dawn Treader

Postby 220chrisTian » Sep 28, 2009 12:37 pm

waggawerewolf27 wrote:The question is, which is which? The difference between physical slavery and spiritual slavery, I mean, and how do we define them? Eustace dragged kicking and screaming into the Narnian world is certainly not a good example of someone being there of their own free will, even before Pug's capturing Caspian and his landing party to sell them as slaves. In some ways it is even possible to feel sorry for him when he wants to get off the expedition.
Good point on Eustace. It is physical slavery in a sense. But consider that he's already a spiritual slave to sin, and to a wrong view of himself and others. That's why Aslan brings him to Narnia. He needs to be spiritually set free before he can see and enjoy the Narnia voyage as physical freedom. And let's not forget Edmund in LWW! ;)

Slavery scenes with Pug: consider the order in the book...
1. Captured
2. Dungeon: dark? no water or food?
3. About to be sold as slaves
4. Redeemed on the auction block! Set free!

King Caspian's role: initially he doesn't show his true identity. But when he comes to the auction with Lord Bern to set free his friends, he does. Sound familiar? ;)
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