What if.... Narnia was real?

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Re: What if.... Narnia was real?

Postby wild rose » Jul 11, 2012 8:41 am

Techinically the name of this thread is very interesting in itself 'what if.....Narnia was real' and I think two important key factors are the two word 'what if'. Of course, logically, Narnia isn't real, it can't be, that is what reason and common sense tell us, it was a land made up by C.S. Lewis and in the physical, such a thing doesn't exist...but then (those golden words) 'what if?' ,there is something in our brain that tells us maybe somehow it is real, a part of our heart (or at least my heart) tells us there must be someway for it to be so very real and in a way, it is. It's very real in our imagination, it's very real in the pages of the books, in the stories, it's real in our hearts and minds, it's always there, so that makes it real. As a land in the physical, of course it doesn't exist, but it exists in us, in all those who read and love it, and that is how Narnia really does come to be, that is how Narnia becomes real. Narnia is a fictional place that comes to life when you read about it. It teaches you about so many things in this world, C.S. Lewis created the land of Narnia to teach children (and adults) valuble lessons and morals that must then be put to use in real life, that must be believed in real life. I believe Narnia is real, but not in the literal sense, Narnia becomes real when you begin to live like a Narnian, even if there isn't any Narnia :)
(at least that's the way I see it :) )
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Re: What if.... Narnia was real?

Postby Narnian_Archer » Jul 11, 2012 10:15 am

I think you have a very good point there, wild rose, and I agree with everything you have written. I think that's sort of the attitude Lewis wanted us to have of Narnia - not to think of it as something that really, physically, and tangibly exists, but as something that is there in our imagination, in our thoughts, so we can ponder it deep in our minds and very souls, and as such discover deep inside us what truths it has to tell us. I think that's why he doesn't delve so deeply into things like cultures, languages, etc., like Tolkein did - he has truths he is trying to convey in each book, but he doesn't want to preach them to you - he wants you to discover them yourself.

Narnia is, in a way, an image of reality and an allegory to things that happen in our world, and as a physical, tangible world is, of course, not real. But the values it portrays, the morals it upholds, the truths it conveys are all very real and make it into a much more real world than many other fantasy worlds, which makes it very real to me, personally. :)
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Re: What if.... Narnia was real?

Postby Varnafinde » Jul 11, 2012 2:29 pm

Ithilwen wrote: They didn't write it so that we would get distracted from the real thing and focus only on the fictional story parts of it. We should love Aslan because he reminds us of Christ; not love Christ because He reminds us of Aslan. We should look forward to Christ's return, to the New Heavens and the New Earth; not look forward to possibly finding the fictional world that a human based on it.


Very good point. We sometimes discuss whether Aslan "is" Christ, but he only is so within the fictional universe that Lewis created. In our actual reality he is a fictional, literary character, and we shouldn't make him more than that.

Narnian_Archer wrote:I think that's sort of the attitude Lewis wanted us to have of Narnia - not to think of it as something that really, physically, and tangibly exists, but as something that is there in our imagination, in our thoughts, so we can ponder it deep in our minds and very souls, and as such discover deep inside us what truths it has to tell us.


And which belongs to a reality of its own, a subordinate reality. Tolkien talked about "sub-creation", that as children of the Creator, we will want to create our own sub-realities, and create them in art. We need to keep the different levels separate from each other, though. But on its own sub-level, Narnia can feel very real to us.
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Re: What if.... Narnia was real?

Postby queenviolet » Jan 03, 2013 9:35 pm

If Narnia was realI probably have already been there. I have loved Narnia ever since the first movie came out. i waited until i was at least eight to read the books but i didn't i read them in August 2012...when i was 10!!!! my mum got me LLW when it first came out on DVD when i was 3 i watched it alot. i sort of forgot about it when i went through my one direction phase(which i am going through again) i remember watching the commercials for VDT on TV and Eustace touching reepicheeps tails and him saying ''don't touch the tail'' I AM NOW DEVOTED TO NARNIA (and One Direction)!!!!!! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :ymhug: :ymhug: :ymhug: B-) B-) B-) B-) :ymblushing: :ymblushing: :ymblushing: :ymblushing: im going to bed now (-| (-| (-| (-| (-| i tired (-| (-| (-|
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Re: What if.... Narnia was real?

Postby PhelanVelvel » Feb 05, 2013 5:41 pm

DiGoRyKiRkE wrote:First off, welcome to NarniaWeb, DanielleLauren! I'm glad that you're getting involved around the forum (particularly the Talk About Narnia section ;) ).

That being said, I have to ask you whether your post is intended to be literal or metaphorical? I suppose one could draw metaphorical lines from our world to the world of Narnia, and that's as good as far as it goes, but to actually consider the possibility that Earth = A literal Narnia is a very dangerous and very disturbing supposition. At best it reveals a "new-agey-spirit-and-force-filled" worldview, at worst it results in pantheism and nature worship.

Not to mention that logically it doesn't hold up as an argument. The Narnia books take place both in our world, and in the world of Narnia. . . this is an essential plot point to the series as a whole. But if our world was actually Narnia, then there is no magic. The wardrobe becomes nothing more than a teleportation machine. You more or less stip all of the magic out of the book series (not to mention introduce a plethora of logical issues, as well as issues concerning C.S. Lewis' ability as an author).

If Earth equals Narnia then what is Charn? What is the Wood Between the World? What is Aslan's Country? There are too many difficulties with this logic alone (not even touching the existence of magic, mythical creatures, mythical lands, etc...) for a literal interpretation of what you're saying.


Uh, sorry, but I was just kind of taken aback that you called pantheism and nature-worship "dangerous". Actually made me laugh. What if she did believe in those things, how is it "dangerous"? If that's what she believes in, that's her prerogative. Maybe she doesn't believe in your "God". I don't. Maybe in her personal worldview it's considered "dangerous" to do so. *shrug* You may think it's dangerous, but how is it really fair to tell someone else pantheism is dangerous when they may actually believe in it? This is why I generally can't tolerate Narnia forums or fans, because they are so obsessed with their own religion, and so convinced of its universal truth, that the books can't be discussed without attempting to convert people to Christianity. Sorry, but if you're allowed to believe in people rising from the dead and virgins giving birth, she's allowed to believe in whatever metaphysical daydreams she wants. I know your post was from a while ago, but what a smack to the face. Not everyone who wants to theorise about Narnia believes in the author's religion.

Varnafinde wrote:Very good point. We sometimes discuss whether Aslan "is" Christ, but he only is so within the fictional universe that Lewis created. In our actual reality he is a fictional, literary character, and we shouldn't make him more than that.


And in my actual reality, the one where I base things off of evidence and not a single tome from thousands of years ago, Christ is also a fictional character, and I prefer Aslan to him any day of the week. To me, they are both fiction, no sufficient amount of evidence for either one, and if I HAD to choose one to try and make as more than just a literary character, I would choose Aslan. I really do not get these forums sometimes, I am amazed that a discussion forum for a series of books is at the same time giving advice on what someone SHOULD do in terms of their personal beliefs.
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Re: What if.... Narnia was real?

Postby King_Erlian » Feb 06, 2013 6:38 am

PhelanVelvel wrote:And in my actual reality, the one where I base things off of evidence and not a single tome from thousands of years ago, Christ is also a fictional character, and I prefer Aslan to him any day of the week. To me, they are both fiction, no sufficient amount of evidence for either one, and if I HAD to choose one to try and make as more than just a literary character, I would choose Aslan. I really do not get these forums sometimes, I am amazed that a discussion forum for a series of books is at the same time giving advice on what someone SHOULD do in terms of their personal beliefs.

I agree with you, PhelanVelvel. Although I'm a Christian, I enjoy the Narnia stories because they're very good stories, not because they're a theological manual - and I think Lewis would be horrified at people treating them like they were. I haven't read any biography or autobiography of Lewis to know what kind of a "relationship" he may have had with God, but my experience of people in evangelical churches I've attended in the past is that many of them talk about having this wonderful relationship with God because that's what they think they ought to say and what they aspire to, not what they actually experience. Aslan loving and guiding Shasta in HHB, for instance, does not "prove" that Jesus loves and guides me. If anything, reading the Gospels, the impression I get of Jesus' character is that he wouldn't like me and wouldn't want me in his Kingdom. I certainly don't "know" Jesus, despite doing all the things that evangelicals tell me I need to do in order to know him. He's no more an active, living part of my life than Julius Caesar or Benny Hill; though I wouldn't describe him as a fictional character because I don't think the Christian Church would have got started if he had never existed.

As far as I'm concerned, Lewis wrote an excellent series of children's stories that were influenced by his world-view. I've written lyrics and even a science-fiction novel that were influenced by my world-view. Yet I don't expect anyone to alter their beliefs to be the same as mine just because they've heard my songs or read my book. If they choose to, by their own free will, that's their affair.
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Re: What if.... Narnia was real?

Postby waggawerewolf27 » Feb 06, 2013 2:54 pm

Narnia couldn't possibly be real, because it is too idyllic, just as Aslan created it. Except for sundry baddies, of course. :D It is the place where mythical creatures live beside real ones, where it is possible to talk with trees without being considered odd, where animals communicate directly with humans as equals, where a human king or queen is supposed to be a leader and a steward, and very often manages to be so, with Aslan's help. Narnia is a perpetual, pre-Norman Conquest, Medieval Dreamtime with no history to learn, until some invader or other takes over to make it more "progressive".

If the "real world" was like Narnia, we would be so in tune with nature we would know which thread of a cobweb to use for a band-aid, and which trees protect children from snakes. We'd settle our arguments at corroborees, listen to our elders trustfully, and know our way by each rock or creek in the way. Rude visitors to Narnian shores would say the place doesn't have anything available for trade, whilst envious and greedy others with one eye on the gold and jewellery, would talk disparagingly about productivity not being what it should be and set everyone to work. Not at things they might enjoy doing, but at things they would really hate to do.

No wonder that Eustace thought that Calormen was the least phony place in the Narnia World - it has all the things that makes real life, er, only too real. Such as roads, schools, postal services, markets, an economy, lazy, exploitative rulers, militaristic elites, arranged marriages to someone you mightn't like, hard work and lots and lots of wise sayings. ;) The real world isn't a place to enjoy, only to survive in. Something Eustace, at any rate, needed to learn when he set so much store by money and commerce, competition and marks.

Look what happened in LB. The dwarves were hard-working and clever, so they were always just as useful to wrongful rulers as to rightful ones. In the end, being sick of both Narnia and the Tisroc, the dwarves were for the dwarves and much good it did them. But others, like the animals, suffered cruelly under Calormene rule, especially as the Calormenes did not think much of talking animals. Seeing the horses as sentient as ourselves made to work so hard to suit the Calormenes, is terrible - no wonder Tirian killed the Calormenes driving them. And since Narnia had eventually been taken over, losing its wonder and magic, no wonder Aslan called it quits for that world.

In each of the stories there is an enemy - in VDT it is ourselves and our own greedy, lustful, angry, jealous, gluttonous, lazy and prideful human natures. In MN it is the White Witch who introduces the dark side to Narnia, thanks to human interference. Again she is the antagonist in LWW. In HHB the Calormenes desire to take over Archenland and Narnia, and are only thwarted by the likes of Shasta and Aravis, both fleeing from injustice. In LB they succeed, and it is clear from Rishda Tarkhaan they intend to make Narnia just like Calormen. Narnia at that point, had become all too real. So it is not too hard to visualise what if Narnia was real?

I think you don't have to have any intention of becoming Christian to enjoy the Narnia Chronicles in which C.S.Lewis' themes suggest much about ourselves, and society in general, including the way it is led all too often. But if Narnia were real, then Susan Pevensie would be real... I wonder what she'd think of the Narnia Chronicles when she didn't want to remember that life?
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Re: What if.... Narnia was real?

Postby PhelanVelvel » Feb 07, 2013 2:54 am

I agree with what you've both said. Everyone has their own personal beliefs, and this differs from person to person even among Christians, as King_Erlian pointed out. The thing that bothers me is when someone puts their own beliefs out in the open and someone else comes in and says "No, that's wrong", even if they themselves hold beliefs that cannot be proven.

I just think it's a bit silly to talk about beliefs as if they're absolute fact, which I see a lot on here, probably because people just assume everyone here is Christian so that's fine. But if I said "Zeus is everywhere in our world, especially on nights with rain and thunder", or something like that, I think people would be like "Um, no?" Lol. Even though I might (for argument's sake) totally believe in Zeus the same way they believe in God.

In your mind, these ideas may be absolute fact, you may believe they are truth, but unless you can back it up with hard evidence, it's a belief. And everyone has their own, or lack thereof. It's one thing to say "I won't do this because I believe...", but it's another to tell someone else they're wrong or they're doing the wrong thing. No one will want to share if they're met with that kind of criticism.

What I want to know is...is everyone just allowed to talk like that? DiGoRyKiRkE was allowed to say that, at worst, believing Narnia is real results in pantheism. This indicates that he thinks pantheism is legitimately a bad thing, because he advised DanielleLauren against it. He didn't say "I believe that this is wrong", he said "it's dangerous" and asked for evidence from "history books, scientific books, or the Bible." The Bible is a religious text, and it's only a source of evidence if 1.) you're talking hypothetically, like "according to the Bible" or 2.) if you actually believe in it. This indicates to me that he thinks we all believe in the Bible and want to use it as a source of evidence to live by.

My question is...if I said to her "DanielleLauren, I like your idea because it suggests pantheism and pantheism is the truth path" or something like that, would people be angry? If I said "Lewis wrote Narnia a bad ending because there is no Heaven" or something, would I be chastised? What I want to know is, are certain things allowed to be said because the majority of the users here are Christian? No matter how you look at it, a user was told that her ideas were wrong because they're un-Christian, basically.

I know, I'm stirring the pot up here, but it's a point of discussion in a way. What is the policy on that, I wonder? Because the answer will determine whether this is a Christian Narnia forum or just a Narnia forum. ;P
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Re: What if.... Narnia was real?

Postby DiGoRyKiRkE » Feb 07, 2013 9:26 am

MOD NOTE:

Narniaweb's rules clearly state that members posting in a thread must stay on topic. (See rule #12 for more clarification). This thread's original intention was to talk about the possibility of Narnia being "real." Some religious discussion is inevitable when talking about this book series due to the opinions of the author and the content within the books themselves, but in depth discussions about the notion of religious opinion and it's place on this forum does not belong in this thread.

As such, we politely ask that you refrain from talking about this topic within the confines of this thread, and try to gear the conversation back to the original topic about the implications of Narnia being "real." Further discussion of the religious topics that have cropped up in this thread will result in possible deletion of the posts, or the closing of the thread.

If you would like to continue talking about the religious issues currently being discussed, NarniaWeb does have outlets for doing so. Please see the "Man Behind the Wardrobe" forum for discussions about Jack's faith (both inside and outside of the Narnian world), or, for more generalized concepts of faith, please continue this discussion in The Christianity, Religion and Philosophy thread located within the Spare Oom subforum.

Thank you very much.

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Re: What if.... Narnia was real?

Postby Cleander » Jun 25, 2019 5:09 pm

....And 6 years later, someone discovered this thread!

Wow. What if Narnia was real? I'm not sure that inter-dimensional travel is possible, but I do agree with Professor Kirke on the question of the existence of other worlds- "nothing is more likely."
As a Christian, I believe that the best things about Narnia are actually (as Lewis intended) dim reflections of the joys of Heaven- a world you really can get to.
But as for a physically existing world of Narnia, I would say no. While I don't deny the existence of other worlds, or even the possible existence of a world similar to Narnia, I don't think that Narnia as Lewis imagined it exists.
I've checked wardrobes and closets, tunnels, paintings and mysterious doors. None of them have let me in to Narnia, and while it's still fun to let myself believe that they might do so, it's also increasingly hard to let myself believe that reasonably.
But I still wonder.
And deep, deep down I hope.
I hope that one day I will find out that my doubts were wrong. And if I do I will come back to this thread and make a VERY important edit to this post.
Or maybe I'll just stay in Narnia! :D
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Re: What if.... Narnia was real?

Postby Narnian78 » Aug 06, 2019 12:57 pm

The books are classified as fiction in most libraries, but I believe Narnia is a real place. It is the place that Lewis described at the end of The Last Battle, the new Narnia. The old Narnia that was there before is the reflection of the real place. You can get to the real Narnia in your mind by believing in the place just like you can enter heaven. Where we live on earth now can be the beginning of heaven even though our present location is earth. It is the same with Narnia in that we can experience it without physically being there. :)
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Re: What if.... Narnia was real?

Postby Alambil Stark » Aug 18, 2019 9:17 pm

Oh, I do wish it was real! When I was a kid I sure believed it with my whole heart! I so wanted to go there and become a princess. I was obsessed with finding a way in.
I've always been fond of writing, so I actually started writing a "novel" about a group of people who actually found Narnia in modern days. I had a lot of dreams about Narnia, too. I distinctly remember one in which I was a princess along the Pevensies, and another which is more relevant to this thread because it had to do with how to get to Narnia. It's obviously very far-fetched, as most dreams are, but I'll tell you how one could get into Narnia according to that dream: one should find a dragon and pass below Tower Bridge in London and then one would fly into Narnia. Crazy, right?
Now, as a young adult, I actually think it has never existed. Lewis destroyed it in The Last Battle, so what use is it to know if it existed anyway? Now, I am a Christian, so if we were to assume that Narnia is actually Heaven (as my dad always told me it was), I do believe in it. I'm still a pretty humanist Christian, so I don't bother much thinking about Heaven. We'll see how it is when it comes :)
In my personal experience, my belief in Narnia was mostly due to escapism. I became obsessed with Narnia at the same time that my "my brains got scrambled" haha. Around that age, I began exhibiting mental health issues that caused me a lot of distress, pain, and confusion, so I just escaped reality. Around the time I also liked to imagine that Lewis was actually my grandfather because both of mine are horrible haha :(
I would like to clarify that, even though I have experienced psychosis, Narnia was probably not a delusion as much as it was a normal product of a child's imagination. However, it does relate to my mental disorder because it was the most accessible coping mechanism I had at the time. Now I am on meds and in therapy, but I still like to use escapism. Nonetheless, I don't escape to Narnia anymore because I have created my own world that I want to write a book about hehe.
So, to answer the main question (as I seem to have gone pretty much off topic hehe), I don't think Narnia is real. I think it was a world invented by Lewis so that children could experience Narnia and dream about it, and then look back at it with tenderness as adults. I know the book talks about grown-ups being skeptical and all-around sucky, but I do think I'm right about this one. The laws of physics, the talking animals, the mythological creatures, the prophecies... they just don't seem plausible. Especially the "mythological creatures" aspect because why would a world exist with the same creatures that humans made up? That would be too much of a coincidence.
These stories are told with the same sweetness of a grandfather narrating fairy tales to his grandchildren. They're very dear to my heart, but, unfortunately, too fantastical to be true.
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