This forum has been archived. Please visit the new forum at https://community.narniaweb.com/

The "Darkness" of the Silver Chair

The cultures, creatures, geography — anything about the books!

Moderators: DiGoRyKiRkE, Varnafinde

Re: The "Darkness" of the Silver Chair

Postby wolfloversk » Mar 19, 2011 9:01 pm

1) The mood of the story. There are various setting and color elements that create a darker mood. Various settings inclunde the underground, the ruins, moors and marshland. A large portion of it occurs in the dark either at night or underground. It also takes place in the winter, a literary metaphor for destruction and death. The darkness of thew mood often affects the reception of its audience members... Remember that in both Bambi and The Lion King a parent dies, yet both films are considered child friendly. On the other hand in other films strangers die and the film is PG-13 or R this often has to do with a) blood and violence b) live action vs animated and c) large night sequences or similarly dark locations

2) certain aspects or scenes. Man-pies are often the most cited example, I'd also suggest you reread the part where the witch is killed. It is described rather violently and (realistically) messy. Also the fact that the underworld is completely destroyed- Almost a "Partial-apocolyse." And Lilliandil is killed by the serpent, Caspian dies at the end.

3) Interactions between characters. Jill and Eustace bicker a lot, Puddleglum is a bit of a wet-blanket, Rillian loses his sanity and often presents a very real danger to the travelers.

4) Reoccuring themes/symbolisms of lonelieness, hopelessness, death, imprisonment.


If I had to rank the Chronicles in terms of darkness SC would be second.

1)LB
2)SC
3)PC
4)HHB
5)LWW
6)VDT
7)MN

of course you could argue a position or two in either direction for anyone of the books.

But in answering your question, for me it has to do the most with the mood of the story, which is affected a lot by setting. Remember how people complained about PC's violence/ darkness. Well yes it had more battles than LWW, but it had more/ longer night sequences as well... which certainly played their part. Secondly I would point to a mixture of the themes and certain scenes in the book, finally the characters themselves.
Avi by AstrowolfD
User avatar
wolfloversk
NarniaWeb Zealot
The Riddle Master
 
Posts: 6916
Joined: Dec 28, 2009
Location: Jurassic World
Gender: Female

Re: The "Darkness" of the Silver Chair

Postby AslanIsOnTheMove » Mar 20, 2011 1:34 am

First off I would like to say that SC is my favorite book. I do consider it darker than most of the Narnia books. But that's not a problem to me.

Most things have already been mentioned that I would have to say make the book a bit darker than others. i.e. cannibalism, death, things like that.

I think SC isn't darker than the other books as long as you don't think about Rilian or Caspian too much. If the children and Puddleglum were the only people affected by the events of the story it wouldn't be so dark in places.

First let's think about Caspian's situation. Caspian is a character who has already been astablished at this point. We know from PC that he grew up as an orphan. At the end of VDT he takes a wife. YAY good for him! :ymapplause: Maybe now he can have the family he's probably always wanted. Oh wait no. Fast Forward to SC. His wife is murdered and his son is taken from him. No more family. Gloom anyone?

As if this wasn't bad enough, his longtime friend, Drinian, comes to him and tells him that he had a feeling Rilian was headed for trouble, he just thought it best to hide that bit of information from the king. As far as Caspian knows, his only son, his only family left in the world, the heir to the Narnian throne, is dead. At best he's run away of his own accord and willingly left his father in his time of need. At worst, this woman he's run off with intends to kill him or use him for evil purposes.

By holding his tongue, Caspian's dear friend, Drinian, betrayed him. In his own words, "by my silence I have destroyed your son." In my opinion, it is one of the saddest moments, aside from LB, in the whole series when

"Caspian caught up his battle-axe and rushed upon the Lord Drinian to kill him, and Drinian stood still as a stock for the death blow. But when the axe was raised, Caspian threw it away and cried out, 'I have lost my queen and my son: shall I lose my friend also?' And he fell upon the Lord Drinian's neck and embraced him, and both wept..."

I am near tears just writing that quote out. I can almost feel Caspian's anguish pouring out of the pages in that part of the book. What kind of pain is that which would bring a man very near to killing a dear friend? And he had to live with that pain for ten years. By the time we see Caspian in SC he is sailing off to ask for Aslan's help in choosing another heir. Apparently, in all of Caspian's heartache, Aslan has remained silent, or surely Caspian wouldn't feel the need to go and find him. For ten years Caspian went through the pain without hearing any word from Aslan. Of all the times he needed the Great Lion one would think it would've been in that time more than others. Caspian isn't featured much in SC, but many of the places where he is mentioned are heart-wrenching. (especially if he's your favorite character like he is mine :p ) The only time we see Caspian happy in SC is when he goes on to Aslan's Country, which gives his sad story a happy ending :)

Now, let's think about Rilian's situation.

*Rilian becomes obsessed with revenge. So much so that he tirelessly searches for a creature which is a dumb snake, as far as he knows. The whole vengeance thing is a bit dark anyway, but especially when one becomes consumed by a thirst for it.

*Question: What would make a young man stare at "the most beautiful [woman] that was ever made" "like a man out of his witts" all day long? I realize there was enchantment involved, but something tells me there's a bit more than enchantment going on, and it isn't quite family friendly. Something tells me this is along the lines of the Sea People in VDT whom Drinian said it was best not to talk about because they couldn't have men falling in love with the sea women or the sea country itself and jumping overboard. I won't mention what the sea women were wearing, even though the book did. Anyway, enchantment or not, some might veiw Rilian's riding out every day for the sole purpose of staring at a woman "wrapped in a thin garment as green as poison" as less than appropriate.

*And some might view the fact that the enchanted Rilian was taken captive by her, thus living with her while romantically interested in her as even less appropriate than that. (I know I feel it's inappropriate. I feel bad just writing this out. Hope it's ok with the mods since most everything I've posted was in the books ;) )

*The Enchantment itself is a pretty dark matter. Some would say that Rilian was kidnapped. But I don't quite think he was. The book doesn't really suggest that to me. I think the enchantment largely represents sin in a person's life. Together, Eustace, Jill, Rilian and Puddleglum were able to fight the witch's lies. This suggests to me that Rilian could've fought the enchantment long ago had he realized what was happening in those first few days he was riding out to see the witch. He didn't fight. He played with fire until it consumed him in a sense. The witch only had him tied to the silver chair for one hour of the day. Had he fought the enchantment as Eustace, Jill and Puddleglum did, he could have run away from LotGK any of the other 23 hours of the day.

Looking at the enchantment from a spiritual point, if it is sin then Rilian was in it neck deep, pretty much. If the enchantment is sin, that would make the witch satan/a demon. Rilian, by the time his rescuers arrived, had lost his free will and was possessed if you look at it with spiritual eyes. Possessed for 23 hours of the day. That is pretty dark and scary if you ask me.

That's in part why I say I don't belive Rilian was kidnapped in the truest since of the word. As far as Christianity is concerned, satan/sin can't just take you by force. You have to give in to it first. In SC Drinian saw that the witch beckoned Rilian to come to her, but he didn't while Drinian was there. We can assume that he chose to go with her the next day. But he had to choose that. And perhaps he was more susceptible to the witch because he had already let his thirst for revenge and possibly lust into his heart. Perhaps that was why she was able to take him captive so easily. That was a long rant about sin and such :ymblushing: Let's move on a bit furter in Rilian's life.

*Rilian is rescued! I don't have to tell you about the gore of the witch's death. Everyone has already pointed out how not kid friendly that is ;)

*Rilian arrives home. This in itself should be a happy thing. But let's consider that Rilian has just wasted the last ten years of his life as the slave and lover of the witch that murdered his mother. He can never ever get those years back. That in itself is sad. I don't think he even realized the full consequences of his enchantment when he was freed, as is evidenced by the fact that the thing he wants to do when he is freed is go down to Bism rather than home to his sad, aged and dying father. He didn't yet realize how his enchantment had affected his father and didn't give a thought to the fact that his father might wish to see him again as soon as possible.

*The last time we see Rilian in SC is when he sees his father for the last time. He sees him in that final moment and then Caspian dies. Thus ends Rilian's story in SC. Then in LB we see that he made it to Aslan's Country and that's pretty much all we know about him. Rilian's side of the story in SC is very dark and depressing. I'll recap very quickly just to make it more clear since I went off on all those rants :p.

Rilian's mother dies. Rilian searches in vain for the beast that killed his mother. Rilian is kidnapped/ runs away with the witch that killed his mother. Rilian is enchanted/held captive by said witch. LotGK deprives him of his free will for all but the one hour that she can't control him. In said hour Rilian is tied to a chair with nothing to do but scream and cry and remember the life he once had but may never have again while trying desperately (but in vain) to break free. After ten years of this, Rilian is finally freed. Rilian comes home just in time to watch his father die. Rilian is left to rule a kingdom from which he has been absent for ten years. THE END.

It's a sad story on Rilian's part. But it's a brilliant depiction of sin. We see that Rilian messed up. He was out looking at the witch when he could've been comforting/helping his father. He chose the wrong path and got in deeper than he wanted to go. It was only when he called on the name of Aslan that he was set free. He was free and he was forgiven. He was Disenchanted. But that didn't mean things would be easy for him or that the effects of his actions were erased. His father still died. He still missed the last ten years of his father's life. And he would have to rule the country immediately after his return. Given the fact that he was enchanted for the ten years between RD's and Caspian's death's it probably felt just as bad as losing both of them within a month of each other. And this is where his story ends.

Sorry for the looooong post. Like I said, it's my favorite of the 7 books. I have a lot to say about it :ymblushing:
Image
User avatar
AslanIsOnTheMove
NarniaWeb Nut
 
Posts: 335
Joined: Mar 31, 2010
Location: Tennessee, USA
Gender: Female

Re: The "Darkness" of the Silver Chair

Postby Amira Tair » Mar 20, 2011 12:03 pm

As it has already been said, the mood and setting of the story are certainly darker and give a melancholy atmosphere that pervades the whole book. Besides, Caspian's tragic story makes it even sadder, as he is a character we have known and loved for three books, since his childhood. But the thing that most struck me about this book is that it is the only occasion - as far as I can remember, that the children actually wanted to leave Narnia and go home.
User avatar
Amira Tair
NarniaWeb Nut
 
Posts: 209
Joined: May 12, 2008
Location: Beyond
Gender: Female

Re: The "Darkness" of the Silver Chair

Postby Graymouser » Mar 21, 2011 12:51 am

Though the only actual experience they had of Narnia was the feast on the first night, the marshes, and that one ride on the last day.

As for Rilian, I definitely don't think he was kidnapped.

The stories of mortal men being enchanted and taken away by Faerie Queens/sorceresses go back hundreds of years.

I'm sure Lewis was familiar with 'Tam Lin', about a man taken by the Faeries and needing to be freed by his true love:

23.'The Queen of Fairies she came by,
Took me wi her to dwell,
Evn where she has a pleasant land
For those that in it dwell,
But at the end o seven years,
They pay their teind to hell.


24.The night it is gude Halloween,
The fairie folk do ride,
And they that wad their true-love win,
At Miles Cross they maun bide.'


27.Some ride upon a black, lady,
And some ride on a brown,
But I ride on a milk-white steed,
And ay nearest the town :
Because I was an earthly knight
They gae me that renown.
.....

.....
29.'Then hie thee to the milk-white
And pu me quickly down,
Cast thy green kirtle owr me,
And keep me frae the rain.


30.'They'll turn me in thy arms, lady,
An adder and a snake;
But hold me fast, let me na gae,
To be your warldly mate.

Green kirtle, white horse, man enchanted by a sorceress, someone turning into a snake....

As well as the Ballad of Thomas the Rhymer, which Tolkien refers to in "On Fairy-Stories":

1.True Thomas lay on Huntlie Bank,
A ferlie he spied wi' his eye
And there he saw a lady bright,
Come riding down by Eildon Tree.


2.Her shirt was o the grass-green silk,
Her mantle o the velvet fyne
At ilka tett of her horse's mane
Hang fifty siller bells and nine.


3.True Thomas, he pulld aff his cap,
And louted low down to his knee
"All hail, thou mighty Queen of Heaven!
For thy peer on earth I never did see."


4."O no, O no, Thomas," she said,
"That name does not belang to me;
I am but the queen of fair Elfland,
That am hither come to visit thee."
......

7."Now, ye maun go wi me," she said,
"True Thomas, ye maun go wi me,
And ye maun serve me seven years,
Thro weal or woe, as may chance to be."


as well as later works such as Keats' "La Belle Dame Sans Merci".
The difference is that people wanted to hear the stories, whereas I never met anyone who wanted to read the essays
Graymouser
NarniaWeb Nut
 
Posts: 137
Joined: Feb 23, 2011
Location: Formosa- the Beautiful Isle
Gender: Male

Re: The "Darkness" of the Silver Chair

Postby roo565 » Mar 22, 2011 1:31 pm

It isn't really dark but I can undrestand why some people might think so. Let me explain:

1. The death of Lilliandil or whatever you would like to call her, is a very dark moment in narnian history.
2. The Lady of the Green Kirtle. She is almost worse than the white witch.
3. The underground. It could be very scary for younger children. I refused to listen to the audio till I was 9.

~roo~
LOVE Gorgie Henly, Emma Watson!!!
REAL LIFE BFF w/ americangirlemmie and narnianjedi!
member of ag and missing club pm to join.
avie and sig by the NarnianArcher.
Long live Aslan!
User avatar
roo565
NarniaWeb Regular
 
Posts: 29
Joined: Dec 01, 2009
Location: Aslan's Camp
Gender: Female

Re: The "Darkness" of the Silver Chair

Postby waggawerewolf27 » Mar 22, 2011 2:31 pm

AslanisOntheMove wrote:*The Enchantment itself is a pretty dark matter. Some would say that Rilian was kidnapped. But I don't quite think he was. The book doesn't really suggest that to me. I think the enchantment largely represents sin in a person's life. Together, Eustace, Jill, Rilian and Puddleglum were able to fight the witch's lies. This suggests to me that Rilian could've fought the enchantment long ago had he realized what was happening in those first few days he was riding out to see the witch. He didn't fight. He played with fire until it consumed him in a sense. The witch only had him tied to the silver chair for one hour of the day. Had he fought the enchantment as Eustace, Jill and Puddleglum did, he could have run away from LotGK any of the other 23 hours of the day.


I see what you mean. I also agree with Graymouser, who said:

The stories of mortal men being enchanted and taken away by Faerie Queens/sorceresses go back hundreds of years.

I'm sure Lewis was familiar with 'Tam Lin', about a man taken by the Faeries and needing to be freed by his true love:


Graymouser's reference to Thomas the Rhymer is even closer to the story of SC, when it refers to a fairy queen in a Green Kirtle. In less poetic terms I think that Rilian's predicament is uncommonly like the sinfulness of an addiction, such as to alcohol, but in this case to LOTGK herself. He met her when he was vulnerable, wanting to ease the pain he felt at his mother's death, was tempted, and lured away as a result.

And I agree that this entrapment caused even more pain and suffering to Caspian and to Narnia. Plus the book shows elsewhere the dangers of hospitality with not always well-meaning strangers, eating their food and ingesting other substances that are harmful. For example, that green powder incense and the thrumming music were meant to distort and muffle people's thinking and alter one's judgement.

Rilian said the armour was filled with enchantment and it also concealed his identity. And wasn't the Silver Chair something like an immobiliser? Was that its only purpose? Or did it also pump something into Rilian?
User avatar
waggawerewolf27
NarniaWeb Zealot
 
Posts: 8781
Joined: Sep 25, 2009
Location: Oz
Gender: Female

Re: The "Darkness" of the Silver Chair

Postby Dernhelm_of_Rohan » Mar 23, 2011 9:18 am

Captivity by evil in Narnia is nothing new - Edmund was held by the Witch in LWW, and Eustace is unable to rid himself of his "dragon-skin" in VDT - perhaps because captivity is a common theme with mankind. However, I don't think this is necessarily what gives SC it's more serious (though not really dark) theme.

I believe the grim tone comes from the two main characters, Jill and Eustace themselves; more specifically in the fact that while they may be acquainted, they are not really friends yet. Thus, they don't always work together as well as the Pevensies, or even the Pevensies and Scrubb. It is their lack of comradeship that often leads to fights, even before they meet TLOTGK. (that, and Puddleglum's constant pessimism. ;) ) I think this is why even though LB is dark, you see friendship and teamwork between Jill and Eustace then - they are friends at that point.

On a slightly different note, wagga asked, albeit somewhat rhetorically-

Rilian said the armour was filled with enchantment and it also concealed his identity. And wasn't the Silver Chair something like an immobiliser? Was that its only purpose? Or did it also pump something into Rilian?


As far as I can tell, the chair was simply keeping him in the grip of the enchantment during his hour of "right-mindedness". He called it a "vile engine of sorcery", but Lewis didn't really make it clear how it worked.
Image

Founding Keeper of the Secret Magic
User avatar
Dernhelm_of_Rohan
NarniaWeb Nut
 
Posts: 379
Joined: Aug 03, 2009
Location: Crickhollow, Buckland
Gender: Female

Re: The "Darkness" of the Silver Chair

Postby AslanIsOnTheMove » Mar 23, 2011 2:02 pm

He did call it a vile engine of sorcery. Also when he cut the chair to pieces a foul smell and flash of light came from it. That doesn't happen with normal chairs. Rilian said he cut it to pieces so the witch couldn't use it on another victim. If it were just something she used to keep him tied up then he would have to cut up every chair in her kingdom because she could really use anything to keep someone bound.

If the chair itself was not magical, then why bother tying him to the same chair every night. Why not just tie him up in a corner somewhere and leave him? Why not tie him to something a little more comfortable than silver? Why not spice it up and tie him to a chair one night and a table the next? As far as I can tell it was only the silver chair ever single night for ten years.

So

*He's tied to the same chair every night

*He calls it a vile engine of sorcery

*He hacks the thing to pieces "lest its mistress ever use it on another victim

*When he chops it up a flash of light and foul smell come from it.

Are you sure it's just a plain old chair?
Image
User avatar
AslanIsOnTheMove
NarniaWeb Nut
 
Posts: 335
Joined: Mar 31, 2010
Location: Tennessee, USA
Gender: Female

Re: The "Darkness" of the Silver Chair

Postby waggawerewolf27 » Mar 24, 2011 2:38 am

Yes I agree with you, AslanIsOnTheMove. And no, I haven't asked any rhetorical questions. :-\ Besides, there are chairs and chairs. Really what is the symbolism in a chair? And that this particular chair was made of silver, it would appear? I agree that VDT was the golden book. There was treasure, and a pool which turned objects immersed in it into gold. Gold, a precious metal, is also an element, AU in the Periodical table. In mythology and astrology Gold represents the Sun, noticeably absent from SC.

Silver (AG) is just another element in the periodical table, a precious metal, symbolising money, status and power. Typically it represents the Moon, nighttime and also healing from dark powers. At one stage it was considered more valuable than Gold. But unlike gold, silver tarnishes. Maybe the tarnish in the SC chair is in its usage? Or is it just another method of pumping noxious mind-altering substances, possibly addictive, into the hapless Rilian?

For some reason I also think of electric chairs when I contemplate this particular chair. A combination of gold and silver is called electrum, you see. In a recent trip to UK I also noted a few really significant chairs. One is a wooden (oaken) chair stored in Westminster Abbey which all English monarchs must sit in when crowned. It is a distinctly old-fashioned wooden affair, graffitied by Cromwell's Roundheads, having long ago lost its gilded adornment, the value of which is in its antiquity and the way it is held in regard.

Then there are the two thrones in the Buckingham Palace throne room, both gilded affairs with magenta or cerise coloured silk covered upholstery, a little the worse for wear. I was astonished how plain and small these two seats were, compared with the power of what they represent, and the majesty of the rest of this very expensive George IV indulgence. In particular I contrasted them with the Speakers' chairs in each of the Upper Houses in our seven State Parliaments and in our Federal Parliament where the exact same monarch must deliver opening of Parliament speeches should she call to visit here in Australia.

Now where does this leave Rilian? Is his stay in the Silver Chair going to make him a horrible, unfeeling, tyrant? Or is he going to wake up to himself, despite it? Though I agree these are themes that are often considered dark and not for the contemplation of primary school children, at any rate.

And yes, I do like the list you give AslanIsOnTheMove. If the Silver Chair is not a particularly significant chair in some way, why have it at all? And why call the novel the Silver Chair? Why not, for instance, A Marshwiggle's shining moment? :D
User avatar
waggawerewolf27
NarniaWeb Zealot
 
Posts: 8781
Joined: Sep 25, 2009
Location: Oz
Gender: Female

Re: The "Darkness" of the Silver Chair

Postby AslanIsOnTheMove » Mar 25, 2011 2:50 am

Thank you, waggawerewolf27. But my list is missing one very important quote from Rilian while he was tied to the chair.

Quick! I am sane now. Every night I am sane. If only I could get out of this enchanted chair it would last.


He calls the chair enchanted. If the chair were only used to hold him until he was enchanted again then why would it make a difference whether or not he stayed in the chair. From the sound of it the chair is keeping him enchanted.

Dernhelm_of_Rohan

I believe the grim tone comes from the two main characters, Jill and Eustace themselves; more specifically in the fact that while they may be acquainted, they are not really friends yet. Thus, they don't always work together as well as the Pevensies, or even the Pevensies and Scrubb. It is their lack of comradeship that often leads to fights, even before they meet TLOTGK. (that, and Puddleglum's constant pessimism. ) I think this is why even though LB is dark, you see friendship and teamwork between Jill and Eustace then - they are friends at that point.



You know, I hadn't really thought of it like that. I suppose in most books the characters are already friends and so there isn't so much arguing. I agree with you that this could add to the darker themes. But The Horse and His Boy had the same thing. Aravis and Shasta didn't know each other at all.

I do think The Silver Chair is darker than all the books except The Last Battle.

I will briefly refer back to an earlier quote I made.

I wrote:

By holding his tongue, Caspian's dear friend, Drinian, betrayed him. In his own words, "by my silence I have destroyed your son." In my opinion, it is one of the saddest moments, aside from LB, in the whole series when

"Caspian caught up his battle-axe and rushed upon the Lord Drinian to kill him, and Drinian stood still as a stock for the death blow. But when the axe was raised, Caspian threw it away and cried out, 'I have lost my queen and my son: shall I lose my friend also?' And he fell upon the Lord Drinian's neck and embraced him, and both wept..."


I don't think there's anywhere else in the chronicles where one of the good guys comes so close to killing another good guy, except maybe at Deathwater island when Edmund and Caspian almost get into a fight over the pool. But that place was under a curse. And even then Caspian didn't come as close to harming Edmund as he did Drinian. And with Drinian, Caspian wasn't under the influence of a curse. He was just so angry and so sad that he almost killed his longtime friend. That is a pretty dark moment.

As far as Rilian goes, well yes, the theme of captivity is in the Narnia books a lot. But with Edmund, the White Witch used turkish delight to lure him away. The Emerald Witch had no turkish delight. Rilian was only drawn to her by her beauty. That just screams "seductive witch" to me. There's nothing light or family friendly about a seductive witch, esp if SC is ever made into a movie.

The Last Battle book spoilers ahead:

Also, Rilian
and Susan
are, as far as I know, the only people who actually have to deal with loved ones dying.
We don't hear anything about what happened to Susan after the accident. We are left to wonder.
But we see what happened to Rilian and Caspian after the queen died.
In The Last Battle we also see main characters dying. But it isn't all that long before Aslan steps in and says "enough is enough." The last battle is a terrible time in Narnian history. But it doesn't last the ten years that Rilian's enchantment does.
In LWW Aslan dies, but He comes right back. Rilian loses both of his parents and they are dead and never coming back to him as long as he lives.

Rilian's heart is so broken that he starts hunting the snake that killed his mother. He finds comfort in the witch, until she forces him to be her slave. His source of comfort turned on him. He loses ten years of his life to the witch. He finally gets free so he can see his father (his only living relative) again. And shortly after he gets there his father dies. The last time we see Rilian he is weeping. He actually has to deal with the death of his mother and father rather than going right then to Aslan's Country with those he loves, or his loved ones coming right back. Rilian has to deal with the fact that he's lost ten years of his life in the service of complete evil along with the fact that both his parents are never coming back. On top of that Rilian now has to take over a country he's been absent from.

Rilian is one of the very few good guys who does not get a happy ending. That's kinda sad/dark.

But, as I said earlier, The Silver Chair is not a darker book than the rest as long as you don't think about Rilian or Caspian too much. Both of their stories are very sad. :((
Image
User avatar
AslanIsOnTheMove
NarniaWeb Nut
 
Posts: 335
Joined: Mar 31, 2010
Location: Tennessee, USA
Gender: Female

Re: The "Darkness" of the Silver Chair

Postby waggawerewolf27 » Mar 26, 2011 2:13 am

Dernhelm_of_Rohan wrote:I believe the grim tone comes from the two main characters, Jill and Eustace themselves; more specifically in the fact that while they may be acquainted, they are not really friends yet. Thus, they don't always work together as well as the Pevensies, or even the Pevensies and Scrubb. It is their lack of comradeship that often leads to fights, even before they meet TLOTGK. (that, and Puddleglum's constant pessimism. ;) ) I think this is why even though LB is dark, you see friendship and teamwork between Jill and Eustace then - they are friends at that point.


There is no good reason why Eustace or Jill should trust each other. Yes I see what you mean by family members, who are supposed to trust each other. But in some of the tales that is not the case. Edmund betrayed his siblings for Turkish delight and some nice warm frothy drink. Miraz not only usurped Prince Caspian's throne but was also responsible for his orphaned state. Even Eustace didn't feel in the least like being loyal to Lucy and Edmund before he was dragonned.

Jill hasn't any real reason to trust Eustace having been acquainted with him beforehand. The only reason she allows him to take her to Narnia is because she has observed that he is changed. And then she is responsible for his falling over a cliff. Only for Aslan's intervention they would not have even tried to co-operate, I think. Neither of them have much reason to trust each other, have they? But it is because the two of them bicker and disagree with each other that they end up being friends.

And there is another point to remember. Who is the most trustworthy? A colleague who stands up for what he believes, who disagrees with you when necessary and who nonetheless shares your discomforts and trials? Or someone as agreeable as the Emerald Witch who gives out freely what looks like good advice to lead the children astray?

I see what you say about the White Witch, Aslan-is-on-the-Move. But Turkish delight is a fairly normal sort of confectionery. The White Witch could have made it properly, flavoured with rosewater, lemon or pistachios, without resorting to magic.

And that is the rub about the Emerald Witch. Everything she provides, whether the green powder fumes lulling the children to sleep, the monotonous mandolin thrumming or the armour the Prince wears is contaminated in some way. What I can't understand about the chair is that Rilian only goes into the chair at a fixed time, when he is sane for about an hour. Is the chair contaminated in some way? Does it emit rays of some sort? Does it work like an uninstall on a computer before updating the program? Are there clamps of some sort holding him in place?

Just thinking how the chair might work. :-s /:)
User avatar
waggawerewolf27
NarniaWeb Zealot
 
Posts: 8781
Joined: Sep 25, 2009
Location: Oz
Gender: Female

Re: The "Darkness" of the Silver Chair

Postby Warrior 4 Jesus » Mar 26, 2011 4:59 am

No, I don't think so. It's like he's drugged-up and then the drugs wear off at a certain time and he's bound to the chair to contain his true self as he experiences something akin to a drug with-drawl. That's my understanding any way.
Currently watching:
Doctor Who - Season 11
User avatar
Warrior 4 Jesus
NarniaWeb Master
 
Posts: 10045
Joined: Mar 06, 2005
Location: Australia
Gender: Male

Re: The "Darkness" of the Silver Chair

Postby waggawerewolf27 » Mar 26, 2011 9:11 pm

Yes I agree that Rilian's torment might be akin to drug withdrawal. But at some time during the hour Rilian must lose consciousness. In the preceding pages, the stranger Puddleglum and the children meet tells them on the first page of chapter 11 that he only has the attendants' word for it that he turns into a snake and is most furiously destructive. He says himself when he wakes up in his right mind, that he has no memory of what has gone beforehand.

AslanIsOnTheMove wrote:He calls the chair enchanted. If the chair were only used to hold him until he was enchanted again then why would it make a difference whether or not he stayed in the chair. From the sound of it the chair is keeping him enchanted.


I expect the Silver Chair keeps him enchanted by immobilising him long enough for the drug to finally wear off and for the new dosage to kick in, when he finally becomes unconscious. But why should it be silver and not something else? Even in Narnia, Silver is an element and a valued precious metal. A whole chair made of silver is quite and extravagance.

Like many metals Silver is a conductor of heat and energy so there may be some way a silver chair might be used to enchant Rilian with the drug directly, something like the suit of armour Rilian wears in Overland. I notice he recognises Jill, Eustace and Puddleglum as the travellers he met along the way.
User avatar
waggawerewolf27
NarniaWeb Zealot
 
Posts: 8781
Joined: Sep 25, 2009
Location: Oz
Gender: Female

Re: The "Darkness" of the Silver Chair

Postby StarAsterisk » Apr 08, 2011 9:43 pm

I do not think that SC is dark- certainly not any darker than the other ones! Sure, a lot of dark/bad things happen, but the same goes for the other books. I mean, good can't win without evil to fight, right? Maybe it's just that there's a Dark Night? Maybe it's becasue they go underground for a bit? Or maybe it's because for soem the wonder of Narnia has fizzled out a bit by the time you reach the sixth book of the Narnia series.
Just my thoughts...
Image
signature by Beginte
User avatar
StarAsterisk
NarniaWeb Nut
 
Posts: 201
Joined: Dec 11, 2010
Location: Florida
Gender: Female

Re: The "Darkness" of the Silver Chair

Postby Clive Staples Sibelius » Apr 09, 2011 1:29 am

I would say it's a 'darker' book in terms of its tone and atmosphere. This seems pretty intentional. Think about it: how many happy moments (a la Lucy) do you find in The Silver Chair. There's a brief respite at Cair Paravel, but even Eustace mars the happy mood with his grumblings. There's not a lot of description of happy moods in the book until they leave Underland.

Not sure what happy copy of SC some others here might have, but maybe I'd like to read it ;-).

It's not that we're meant to be groveling in pain along with the book, but we are supposed to feel a much greater relief when they resurface and find Narnia well, as well as be joyful to see Caspian in Aslan's country (a favorite character from VDT, right!)
"Even in literature and art, no man who bothers about originality will ever be original: whereas if you simply try to tell the truth you will, nine times out of ten, become original without ever having noticed."- CS Lewis
User avatar
Clive Staples Sibelius
NarniaWeb Nut
 
Posts: 266
Joined: Oct 17, 2009
Location: Liberty, TN
Gender: Male

Re: The "Darkness" of the Silver Chair

Postby Conina » Apr 17, 2011 2:56 pm

Interesting discussion. A lot of good points have been made. I'm prone to agree with AslainIsOntheMove that Caspian's family life is an unhappy one. I wanted to expand on a theme I noticed throughout the books to explain why I think SC is darker than most of the other books.

The missing mother motif...

In MN Digory's mother is ill and the threat of her death hangs over Digory's head throughout the story.
But she survives


In LWW the mother is absent due to the children being sent away and is unsatisfactorily replaced by the officious Mrs. Mcreedy.


In PC Mother Pevensie is again absent. Caspian is introduced as an orphan with a rather awful aunt standing in the place as his mother.

In HHB Shasta, like Caspian is introduced with a missing mother.
In the end his father is restored to him but not his mother interestingly enough


in VDT the Pevensie mother is still missing and Eustace refers to his mother as "Alberta" so even the Scrubb mother is "missing" in title.


In SC Lewis kills off Rillian's mother in the backstory much like he has in Caspian and Shasta's backstories. The difference is that this is a character we have actually met. In VDT she is the young, vibrant love interest for Caspian. Also her death spurrs Rillian's lust for revenge.

The dying/dead mother motif is a theme that increases in menace in each book in the series culminating in LB with the destruction of (motherland) Narnia. I don't think Tirian's mother is even mentioned, its just taken for granted that she is gone. The missing mother theme increases in intensity with SC because the character is someone whom we have been introduced to as a vibrant young adult in VDT. This forces thoughtful readers to contemplate on their own mortality.

I think its interesting to note that in our earth the mothers are generally absent or ill and that in Narnia the mothers are generally dead. So the deeper the books go into Narnia and or Caspian's family line, the darker the books get.


As a sidenote, Rillian is described in SC as looking like Hamlet. I think SC is the only book in the series to reference a Shakespearian tragedy.
"Reason is the natural order of truth; but imagination is the organ of meaning." -C.S. Lewis
User avatar
Conina
NarniaWeb Junkie
 
Posts: 556
Joined: Aug 15, 2009
Gender: Female

PreviousNext

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests