Pairings?

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Pairings?

Postby Dinode » Jul 01, 2012 9:04 pm

This may be a bit too soon, but who knows, some script writer may stumble on this thread and it will affect a future Narnia movie. So here goes, how will romance figure into the Chronicles? Here are my thoughts on some pairings that film makers may try/have tried.

1. Digolly: Make them teenagers and I could see someone trying this. The problems I have with this are that it may distract viewers from the actual story, and more importantly, we know Digory isn't married in LWW, so it wouldn't do any good for the two to get together and then be apart in the next film, especially if she appears in LB.

2. Shastaravis: This actually makes more sense, since they do marry at the end, but it's almost an afterthought. I used to think they could show/tell of the marriage at the end in a couple what happened after clips, but that would just be tacked on. So the only way I could see this explained is A: fall in love during the story, or B: the whole story is Cor telling the story to his children or grand children and grown up Aravis walks in when they're done. I kind of like the latter better, then we could just see them become friends in the main story and we see what happened in between. Technically the two could be combined, but that's been done to death.

3. Bree/Hwin: Yes, I am perfectly aware that Lewis specifically said they did not get married to each other. But it's even more of an afterthought than Shasta and Aravis's wedding, so we can be sure the film makers will be sorely tempted to try it anyway (after all, there aren't too many horse romances out there). Why not let them? Well, I've been thinking about why Lewis chose to have them not married, and I think he was trying to make the important but seldom remembered by story tellers point that just because a male and female character have a big life changing adventure together does not mean they have to fall in love. It may be subtle, but it's so rarely told these days that I'd hate to see it given up for the sake of a better box office.

4. Suspian: Nonononononononononononono! Love is about commitment, I can think of few things as selfish and short-sighted as "I know I'm never going to see you again and I know you are going to HAVE to get married in order for Narnia to have an heir, but I'm going to make it harder for you anyway and give you my first kiss". Not to mention it would interfere with:

5. Caspian/Ramandu's Daughter: This is the closest thing to in-plot romance in the whole series. That said, it more or less suffers from the same problem as Shastaravis, you don't learn about the wedding until after the story's practically done, and unlike SxA, a story within a story wouldn't work because we need to see what happens to the Pevensies and Eustace. The only way I can see them beginning to fall in love without their marriage coming as a complete surprise in SC is for Ramandu's island to appear earlier in the story, and that opens a whole slew of other problems. Any ideas?

6. Jillstace: Also not canon, but it doesn't suffer from the problems of Digolly. But I wouldn't want them to get together in LB, because the focus should be on how everyone is going to be with Aslan and all of Narnia forever, not how just the two of them are going to be together forever. SC is better, but then you have to take into account Jill kissing Puddleglum near the end, even if it was just a farewell and/or a way to shut him up. ;)

So, I am all for Caspian/Ramandu's Daughter if it can be pulled off, as well as SxA. I'm might be okay with Digolly and/or Jillstace, but only if the problems I brought up can be properly addressed. I don't want Bree/Hwin, and absolutely not Suspian. What do you all think?
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Re: Pairings?

Postby Narnian_Archer » Jul 02, 2012 12:09 am

Dinode wrote
Love is about commitment, I can think of few things as selfish and short-sighted as "I know I'm never going to see you again and I know you are going to HAVE to get married in order for Narnia to have an heir, but I'm going to make it harder for you anyway and give you my first kiss".


Ha, good point!

I personally am not for putting romances into movies adapted from books that were not originally in to book. The reason? Authors always have a certain point they are trying to portray, emphasize, or stress in their work, and all the little, itty bitty details work together to make this possible - the plot, the setting, the characters - all of these are threads in a fine tapestry that give us a peek into the author's mind and let us understand what he is trying to say. When even just one of these threads is pulled, it already distorts the entire tapestry and the idea that it was trying to convey.
I think it's really sad that Hollywood has such a stereotypical attitude towards romance, in that they have to stick it in just about any movie, if for no other reason than to "increase its popularity". (For example - Suspian, something that has no reference in any of the books, but that was added purely to popularize Narnia among its target audience, young people and teens who had watched LWW in their childhood). When the author doesn't add a romance, I'm inclined to believe he has a reason for it, and its best to stick to his opinion.
So I wouldn't mind a little romance between Shasta and Aravis (maybe even without kissing, just a sort of softening to each other so that we get the point - some subtelty that is really missing in the Narnia movies), and obviously something between Caspian and RD (If that is at all possible considering how it got messed up a bit in VDT). Besides that, I wouldn't want any other romances to be really touched upon in the films. That's my personal opinion. :)
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Re: Pairings?

Postby Louloudi the Centaur » Jul 02, 2012 6:55 am

The thing I really like about the Narnia books is that the plot rarely has any romantic device whatsoever, and female and male characters can just be friends, not lovers.

The most developed relationship in the series, in my opinion is in The Horse and His Boy. Even so, it's not the main plot of the book, and it's not constant kissing or longing for each other. I'm also fine with Caspian/ Ramandu's Daughter, but in the book, I felt that it could have been more developed. If any film expands on this, as long as it doesn't derive from the main plot, I'm fine with it.

All the other pairings you thought of I'm not okay with. Digory and Polly are 12 years old in the book, I believe, and little kids should not have romance. Same with Eustace and Jill. I'm fine with them just being friends.

Now, a couple you didn't mention were Frank and Helen. Now, Helen only appears very shortly towards the middle-end of The Magician's Nephew. This is a couple whose characters I'd really like to see expanded in an adaptation of MN, especially Helen. I've always found it annoying how she just shows up, and becomes queen (not to say she is a bad character).
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Re: Pairings?

Postby Dinode » Jul 07, 2012 5:41 pm

I like the Frank and Helen idea, perhaps they could even be neighbors of Digory and Polly who we see a little bit of before the rings?

Also, about Jill kissing Puddleglum, if that kiss is anything more than a peck I will be furious. X(
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Re: Pairings?

Postby King_Erlian » Jul 09, 2012 4:30 am

Dinode wrote:I like the Frank and Helen idea, perhaps they could even be neighbors of Digory and Polly who we see a little bit of before the rings?


I don't think that's likely. The Ketterleys (Uncle Andrew, Aunt Letty and Digory's mother) were a reasonably well-to-do middle-class family that had servants. They wouldn't live in the same part of London as a working-class cab driver.
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Re: Pairings?

Postby Dinode » Jul 09, 2012 9:22 pm

Good point, hadn't thought of that. Perhaps he could be the one who drives Digory and his mother to uncle Andrew's house? Course then we still wouldn't get to meet Helen.
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Re: Pairings?

Postby Aslanisthebest » Jul 11, 2012 12:18 am

Loulou wrote:The thing I really like about the Narnia books is that the plot rarely has any romantic device whatsoever, and female and male characters can just be friends, not lovers.
DITTO.
Not being a romance-fan, I was glad that Caspian and Ramandu's Daughter were married, and their romance was completley non-gushy. I think nearly everyone who read HHB was hoping Cor and Aravis would end up together in the end, but what a relief that C.S. Lewis didn't make it teen boppy. Man, that would be awful if they did that. It'd be like... rich girl, poor boy who hate each other but then "love" each other. Egh. No way; I'm glad that it was that they ended up in the end, when they grew up.

Digolly: Not only am I delighted that they were simply friends, but like Dinode said, we're told that Digory never married, so that would just be awkward. Digory and Polly are such sweet friends as just simply friends.

Cor/Aravis: Yes for at the end, a firm NO for incorporating it into the film. (Goodness, seeing what a shock Susaspian was, I'd be worried that they might make some kind of Corin/Cor/Aravis thing if Cor and Aravis were interested in each other throughout the story. O.o >.> <.< ) This is the one reason why I'd squirm a bit if I heard HHB was being made, because it might prove as bait to get more fans. I'd boycott the movie if they made them fall in love during the story. It would take away from the real story.

Bree/Hwin: No. They're distant cousins of some sort, and plus, they were really sweet friends... I just can't see that happening, unless they change their characters.

Susaspian: N. O. Though me saying "no" does nothing because it's already been done. But I'd probably ignore the movie if it resurfaced.

Caspian/Ramandu's Daughter: Complete yes. Susaspian interfered with it forever... >.< So unless there's a reboot in the future, I don't think Caspian/Ramandu's Daughter could be redefined as what it was in the book. :(

Jillstace: No... Like I said, I'm not a romance fan. I've never been pleased with the idea in modern culture that a boy and girl can't go on an adventure or pursue a common goal together without becoming romantically interested with each other. I love the fact that the Narnia books bash this stereotype, among many others, and I'd be sad if it would be changed. I really am not a fan of teen-romance flicks, and like you said, Dinode, it'd take the focus off of Aslan and the story.

Frank and Helen: They're such a sweet first King and Queen. They remind me a bit of the Beaver's relationship, in one way or another. ;))

Jill and Puddleglum - It was more like a thank-you; it reminded me of a younger sister to her older brother or a daughter to her dad.

So... to tally, I'm okay with Caspian/Ramandu's Daughter being in the film. I'm okay with implicitly stating at the end of HHB that Shasta and Aravis end up together, but I'm completely against them forming a romnace as the story develops. I'm not even considering Susaspian. Not for Digolly or Jillstace for many reasons, one of the main ones being I'm not a fan of "youth boy and girl go on an adventure together and fall in love!" and also, I like that they're simply friends. Not a fan of Hwin/Bree because they're so... they're just so different and only intended to be friends, unless you radically changed their personalities. One main reason is that I'd be against additional romances is that it would take away from the story.

Dinode wrote:the whole story is Cor telling the story to his children or grand children and grown up Aravis walks in when they're done.
That's a great idea.
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Re: Pairings?

Postby Varnafinde » Jul 22, 2012 5:39 pm

I think there should be no other pairings in the movies than those that are in the books.

And they needn't even all be made very obvious - I'm thinking of Cor and Aravis, where we're told that they got married when they grew up, but that's only mentioned in one sentence. There shouldn't be any youth romance between them in the movie - I don't think their friendship developed into anything like romantic feelings until well after the events of the movie were over. If they find some way to put in a scene of them as adults, fine - by then they would be married and see things as flashbacks.

Frank and Helen are already married before they get into Narnia, so that pairing is obvious - showing something of their romance from the time before they were mentioned in the book, is possible, but would mean an unnecessary expansion of their parts. (It is also perfectly possible that members of the Kirke or the Ketterley family may have travelled in Frank's cab before the events of MN.)

Caspian has Ramandu's daughter. There's no need to pair him with anyone else.
If he had a crush on Queen Susan, I'm sure it was just a temporary thing, as any teenager might have. Something he might smile at later, and nothing he would take very seriously, looking back.

And nothing Susan should encourage by kissing him.
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Re: Pairings?

Postby De_De » Jul 23, 2012 2:44 pm

I join most Narnian fans with the idea that there should be no romance in movies that isn't in the books. But I really like the Jill\Eustace idea. If they were to ever make the other movies I think that it would be cool if they lightly (LIGHTLY) hinted on it is SC and then in LB, when they're older, you could make a little romance. I remember reading the books and kind of hoping that something would be between them.

And of course I am all for Aravis\Cor! I was soooo happy when in the end of HHB Lewis wrote that they got married. Of course nothing romantic, but it doesn't have to be all romantic and mushy in a movie either. You can make it in a more comical way. I don't know, just a random idea.
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Re: Pairings?

Postby Dinode » Jul 23, 2012 9:07 pm

Comical huh? Interesting, do you mean like intentionally turning the cliches on their heads, or something else?
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Re: Pairings?

Postby De_De » Jul 24, 2012 5:35 am

Yeah, sorta. Or making them fall in love through their arguments...if that is possible of course :p

Has anyone ever thought of the idea of Tirian\Lucy? When I read LB, I got the impression that Tirian liked Lucy. Doesn't it say somewhere that he really liked her voice? I think that it would be great for there to be something between the two of them. Lucy is one of the most loved characters in Narnia, and I think most audiences would really like to see her with someone. and who better than the last king of Narnia?
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Re: Pairings?

Postby Louloudi the Centaur » Jul 24, 2012 6:51 am

Sorry, but please no Tirian and Lucy. They only first officially meet at the end of The Last Battle, leaving almost no time for romantic developments. Besides, in a similar way in which fans reacted to Caspian and Susan, Lucy is a historical kind of figure in Narnia, and she comes back hundreds, thousands of years after they should have died. It's just kind of bizarre to me.
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Re: Pairings?

Postby wild rose » Jul 24, 2012 1:19 pm

awwww I'd love a Tirian and Lucy, from the first time I read the book I thought they would make the sweetest couple. But then I never really did mind Caspian and Susan (hides from rotten vegerables being thrown at her)
I'm for Caspian and Ramandu's daughter as well (and before I get attacked for contradiction, I do like Caspai and Susan, but I like it the way they did it in the movie, it was sweet while it lasted but then it ended and both Capsian and Susan moved on in light, though some no exactly in the right direction) and I am totally for Caspian marrying Ramandu's daughter and I think it's one of the sweetest romances but of course my very favorite is Cor and Aravis. I'm not sure how I would like it played out in the movie (if there ever will be a movie), because, with romance not really being played out well in the movies, and it would have to be treated VERY delicatly. I'd like to go with them not actually falling in love in the movie iteslf, cause after all, they are still children, maybe a mention of it later, in the end somehow, I'm not sure how it would work out though :)
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Re: Pairings?

Postby Narnian_Badger » Jul 24, 2012 6:57 pm

Tirian/Lucy is quite popular among certain facets of the fandom, but... ehhh. I'm not really all that fond of it (okay, at all). I don't really see marriage happening in Aslan's Country (because you are supposed to be completely Complete in AC, and so if you still needed to be married, that would mean you weren't complete yet... erm, if that makes any sort of sense), and clearly there's no time for it anywhere else.

Digory/Polly, Susan/Caspian, Lucy/Caspian (no-no-NO!), and Bree/Hwin are completely off the romance table, in my opinion. In two cases it's directly against Lewis's canon, and in the other two, the guy's already supposed to get married to someone else. So please no.

As to Jill/Eustace, while it would not make me go completely off the end, I'm still not very fond of it.

So that leaves Caspian/RD and Shasta/Aravis, which, as Canon Couples, are fair game. :) It's not a matter of yes/no on the romance end for these pairs, but a matter of keeping each person in character, separate from the romance angle.
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Re: Pairings?

Postby DamselJillPole » Jul 25, 2012 4:15 pm

Oh my favorite subject.

Digory and Polly: Digory is single in the books and film however if The Magician's Nephew film depicts any attraction or romance they would have to do it very carefully and explain somehow how they couldn't work. My own opinion on it I think they should just stay as friends. They're little kids like 10 or 9 years old so no I wouldn't want them romantically linked.

Aravis and Shasta/Cor: They remind me of Narnia meets Prince of Persia. I kind of hope for almost the same development as Dastan and the Princess for those who watched the film can kind of get me I hope. The part where Cor meets up with Aravis at Anvard maybe they can have a moment where they almost kiss and one of the lords or king Lune can disrupt it because Cor is needed at Archenland or something. But yes I do want to see a little bit between them since they will eventually fall in love and marry.

Bree and Hwin: No. No. No. CS Lewis already said they didn't in the book. I believe the film crew shouldn't go against his wishes.

Caspian and Susan: Don't 100% like it. If Caspian didn't already have a background story in falling in love and marrying Ramandu's Daughter and having a son which is a main storyline for The Silver Chair I would not be against Suspian. However since Caspian does have a background love life way before Suspian was created yeah I'm against it. Any fan of the books before the movies would have something against it too.
Film crew please do not encourage or continue this fandom anymore please.

Caspian and Ramandu's Daughter: Yes I agree that these two are the most explicit romantic characters in the stories, with that said yes of course I ship these two more then the others. I still dislike how the films depicted these two. Come on guys! They are legendary like Aragorn and Arwen in these stories. I just still can't understand how they can belittle this couple on screen when there is so much they can do with them and how evident their love is. X(

Jill and Eustace: I'm against this as much as I am with Suspian. CS Lewis also stated at the end of the book in Silver Chair that they "were always friends." Not "were friends until they dated in their last adventure." No again it would go against CS Lewis' wishes if there were something between them. Nope all I see is a strong friendship like brother and sister who've got each others backs, non romantic.

Puddleglum and Jill: lol =)) I still love that kiss on the cheek in the book and the BBC version, sweet but not romantic.

I'm surprised you didn't mention a couple I started a few years ago and now it's growing, something called Jilrian Tirian/Jill. :D

Sorry but I just had to mention them in here lol but yeah it's popular among a majority of Narnia fans too mainly on fanfiction and facebook. ;)

I still love them after so many years after reading it as a child and remembering reading certain things believing there were little attracted hints towards Tirian and Jill how he would compliment her, she blushed once and Tirian comforted her after the arrival of Tash. I really want to see something there between them in Last Battle. I'm not talking about a full blown kissy romance like Suspian. Little hints between Jill and Tirian wont be bad. :p


Edit: *De_De

Tirian liked Lucy's tone when she was telling the story how they got there and shushed Eustace because he didn't like how he interupted sort of how you would shush someone in Church when you didn't want to miss something. That was it, it wasn't romantic at all and no Lucy/Tirian please no. :((
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Re: Pairings?

Postby wild rose » Jul 27, 2012 10:25 am

:) I have to admit, this whole thing with Lucy and Tirian and Jill and Tirian made me smile. Poor king Tirian, different fans pulling him in different directions :p But I suppose in reality, one is just as ridiculous as the other. Cause if you look at it, both Jill and Tirian, nor Lucy and Tirian have no evidence to support each other. Both were invented by fans and the fans who support the couple they like best find evidence wherever they can. And at the same time, they say the evidence of the other couple is unfounded. Fans....we are such funny people, one has to admit :D It's only terrible when we start fighting, but as long as we agree to disagree and go on thinking what we please, it can fun :)
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