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Rhince - Arthur Angel

PostPosted: Sep 23, 2009 9:32 am
by icarus
I did think about posting the following rant in the Gael/MLG topic, as it does relate to the recent developments witnessed in the filming of those scenes, but i thought that since we haven't had a Rhince discussion since the first photos of him on set appeared (and since we moved to the new forum) we should probably do so.

First of all, here are two of the recent photos from the set, one in costume, one out of costume:



The key questions which perhaps arise from these photos are:

1. Why has it taken us so long to see a photo of Rhince? We've seen every other member of the crew numerous times during filming (both at Cleveland point, and at the Spit) and yet Arthur Angel did not appear until the last few days of filming at Cleveland Point? Maybe it was just sheer bad luck he didnt appear in earlier spy photos?

2. Why isn't Rhince in Uniform? He is First Mate of the Dawn Treader, surely he should have a costume that at least looks somewhere in-line with that of Drinian and the other crew members?

3. And lastly, how is he related to the characters of "Gael" and "Gael's Mum"? (though any discussion directly related to them should go in the other thread)

Obviously we don't want to be jumping to any rash conclusions too soon, but it does seem they have done something quite odd with the character of Rhince, and so i have to ask - is he is even a crew member at all? I am all for expanding upon characters, and giving them added backstory, but at the end of the day, Rhince HAS to be the ship's First Mate. The fact that he is the First Mate is the only defining characteristic of Rhince in the book, so if they don't even get that part right, then quite frankly, is he even Rhince anymore?

It reminds me somewhat of the Glozelle/Sopespian situation. Before PC came out we heard rumors that they may had switched it so that it was now Sopespian and not Glozelle who killed Miraz in the movie. At the time i was quite certain that it couldn't possibly be the case, as, likewise, the only defining characteristic of Glozelle in the book is that he is the one who kills Miraz (whilst Sopespian is the one who gets his head cut off).

In the end, neither of those two things happened. The fact that it was Lord Gregory who got his head cut off instead was fair enough - they probably wanted at least one of the major villains alive for the river god sequence - but why the change with Sopespian killing Miraz instead? Why not simply switch the character names round instead?

Which brings me back to Rhince - if it so turns out that the character Arthur Angel is playing is not going to be the First Mate, but rather is someone they pick up on the Lone Islands or wherever, then why call him Rhince? Why not let one of the extra's have the name of Rhince and give Arthur Angels character a brand new name?

Hopefully thats all just paranoid worrying, and they won't have done anything so bafflingly stupid with Rhince, despite how it appears. On a more positive note, for his appearence and general look of the character, i have to say he looks pretty good. Earlier photos of the actor in other movies perhaps suggested he didnt look as big or imposing as a first mate ought to, but i think he looks rather quite good.

Re: Rhince - Arthur Angel

PostPosted: Sep 24, 2009 1:36 pm
by Pattertwigs Pal
Right now all I am feeling is confusion. I do know that Rhince did have a little bit of character development in the book. He says, "And good riddance if he [Eustace] has [been eaten by wild beasts], I say." and "Unless it [the other dragon] ate the little brat and and died of him: he'd poison anything." The latter he said under his breath. I know it is not much but it does tell us something about his character.
I'm not sure how he is related to Gael and her mom. He clearly knows the mom because he calls out a name. On the other hand that doesn't seem to fit with what the person giving directions said about them swimming out to their mom. Why would Rhince say a name instead of "mom" if he was swimming to his mom?

Re: Rhince - Arthur Angel

PostPosted: Sep 24, 2009 2:42 pm
by GlimGlum
Indeed, Rhince is now the MFM(Mysterious First Mate)? His character does seem to have been tweaked; more than what I would have thought.

As icarus has noted, his attire does seem to be very different from that of the rest of the Dawn Treader's crew. So what does that signify? Will Rynelf move up to First Mate? Is Rhince Galmian or Terebithian instead of Narnian?

Tune in December 10th, 2010 to find out for sure... [-(

Re: Rhince - Arthur Angel

PostPosted: Sep 24, 2009 7:08 pm
by Adeona
Maybe the producers liked the name Rhince and didn't want to bother thinking up a better one? Or maybe they are trying to confuse us NarniaWebbers and deflate our "Know all" pride? ;)

Re: Rhince - Arthur Angel

PostPosted: Sep 25, 2009 8:50 am
by Lirenel
Pattertwigs Pal wrote:I'm not sure how he is related to Gael and her mom. He clearly knows the mom because he calls out a name. On the other hand that doesn't seem to fit with what the person giving directions said about them swimming out to their mom. Why would Rhince say a name instead of "mom" if he was swimming to his mom?

Likely the direction's meant specifically Gael's mom. Rhince, if he's Gael's father, would technically be swimming to his wife, but I know when I was growing up my parents referred to each other as Mom and Dad in front of the kids, so we kids wouldn't get too confused. And I think it was pretty standard in some older cultures for married couples to call each other Mother and Father. So either way it can work.

I hadn't thought about the fact that they might change Rhince into someone other than the First Mate, like they did with Glozelle. Not that it matters that much to me, as I was forever confusing Rhince and Rynelf. If they make Rynelf into a combo character and make Rhince someone different...I guess I'm ok with that.

Re: Rhince - Arthur Angel

PostPosted: Sep 26, 2009 6:44 am
by icarus
Here is the photo of Rhince in costume from the photo gallery of the latest news story:


He is definitely wearing an apron still. A thick heavy leather apron - literally the only thing he looks like to me is a Blacksmith.

The probability that something very crazy has happened to Rhince's character has gone up in my mind.

Re: Rhince - Arthur Angel

PostPosted: Sep 28, 2009 6:47 pm
by starkat
I don't think anything crazy may have happened.

NarniaWeb Character Profiles wrote:Rhince is a loyal sailor on the Dawn Treader. He is a skilled seaman who knows his work, and as first mate, Rhince is trusted with the ship on many occasions while Drinian goes ashore with Caspian and the others. Rhince appears to come from a lower class than Drinian. Because of his common origins and uneducated speech, Rhince seems to represent the crew among the higher-born company. But he does not take part in the sailors' near-mutiny on Ramandu's Island, and though his manner is not always refined, his loyalty is never questioned.

It sounds like Rhince is a skilled sailor and as first mate would have many talents. All ships need a blacksmith. A blacksmith does not forge just horseshoes, but weapons, nails, mail, rivets, and other metal items. As they would be out of reach of someone for many days and some times weeks, a forge would be an important item on a ship.

So seeing him in a blacksmith's apron would not likely be out of order on the ship.

I honestly don't understand the theory that he's from the Lone Islands at all. The book pretty much outlines that the crew is Narnian/Telmarine as the point is made that the missing lords had to hire a crew and ship and much progress had been made since that point.

While that doesn't explain his proximity to the MLG, it does explain that what we are seeing could very well be a fleshing out of the character instead of changes.

Re: Rhince - Arthur Angel

PostPosted: Sep 28, 2009 7:21 pm
by GlimGlum
Ah, great observation, starkat. I had always associated blacksmiths with western towns; land based. My ignorance has now been somewhat lessened. :ymblushing:

Appalachian Blacksmiths Association wrote:The 18th century created an unprecedented need for blacksmiths. Sailing ships needed hundreds of metal parts, pulleys, cleats, brackets, etc. as well as anchor chains. Blacksmiths made all of these parts. Shipbuilders also needed hammers, chisels, saws, nails, and bolts and blacksmiths made them.

Link to above site

For an extended voyage such as the Dawn Treader is on, having a blacksmith aboard would make a lot of sense. And he would be a member of the crew, though not dressed like a sailor.

An interesting fleshing out of Rhince's character indeed. :)

Re: Rhince - Arthur Angel

PostPosted: Sep 29, 2009 1:54 pm
by Liberty Hoffman
I would love to know why Rhince is not in uniform, but I guess I wiil have to wait until the movie comes out!!!!!

Re: Rhince - Arthur Angel

PostPosted: Sep 29, 2009 3:06 pm
by icarus
Whilst i guess it could be possibe that he is the ships blacksmith (or even a doctor or cook or any other role which make require him to be dressed thusly) and even though it is kind of logical (especially with all the hooved creatures on board, it would kind of help explain away the old wet-deck problems if they have their own blacksmith on board) but it kind of seems like a bit of a stretch to make that assumption to me. i dunno.

Also, as you said, it wouldn't explain why he is close to Gael, or how he knows Gael's mother by her first name, or why we didnt see Rhince untill the very last few days of the Cleveland Point shoot - when we saw most of the other ship crew members numerous times throughout the 3 weeks shoot there, and most of the main crew members plenty of times during the Spit/Narrowhaven shooting.

I am really not trying to be a doom-sayer, trying to make out that this is a surefire sign that they have done something completely disastrous with his character. But so far nothing seems to add up when it comes to Rhince. And as much as i would love this to be just a character expansion, one that still fits in with his character role in the book, so far all the signs are saying the complete opposite to me.

Re: Rhince - Arthur Angel

PostPosted: Oct 05, 2009 8:49 am
by fantasia
Regardless of whether or not he's on the Dawn Treader as the blacksmith, his character still has undergone a significant change. First of all, from First Mate to a blacksmith (or some other craftsman), and second of all, he has some unknown relationship with Gael, a completely new character.
So it will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Re: Rhince - Arthur Angel

PostPosted: Nov 18, 2009 12:18 pm
by icarus
In light of recent developments i thought i might as well bring this thread back up to the first page for a bit more discussion.

Mirko Grillini wrote:Arthur (red shirt) plays Rhince in the film, joining the crew on board of the Dawn Treader to begin his voyage looking for his wife

Mirko Grillini wrote:Narnia has now reopened the door to his screen performance abilities with his role of Rynelf, the right hand of Captain Drinian (played by Gary Sweet). He is effectively my boss on the boat ... ctors.html

So confirmation that Rhince is no longer the first mate, and is instead someone who joins them so he can search for his lost wife, and that Rynelf is now the First Mate instead - Captain Drinian's right hand man as he so put it.

I don't want to repeat too much of what i've already said, but its just seems like such a needless change. Maybe the two characters in the book are quite basic and interchangable, but surely that makes it all the more important to get those few details correct. Rhince = First Mate, Rynelf = Not First Mate. How hard is that? Its Glozelle/Sopespian all over again.

Re: Rhince - Arthur Angel

PostPosted: Nov 18, 2009 12:46 pm
by fantasia
I agree icarus. That is the weirdest thing to me. Rynelf's biggest claim to fame is his speech at the end of the book. He could easily do that as a different character. But Rhince is the first mate in the book. Why on earth did they need to change two characters instead of just one? /:)

Re: Rhince - Arthur Angel

PostPosted: Nov 19, 2009 12:35 am
by GlimGlum
Shall I whince about Rhince or whine like an elf about Rynelf? :D

fantasia_kitty wrote:First of all, from First Mate to a blacksmith (or some other craftsman), and second of all, he has some unknown relationship with Gael, a completely new character.
So it will be interesting to see how this plays out.

I would say it has at least been interesting so far. I had come to believe that Rhince was Gael's father and Elaine's husband. But no longer First Mate? 8-| 'Tis a puzzlement but I am willing to see how it plays out in the movie. Though I will probably have to block out those two from my memory of the book when the lights dim in the theater. ;)