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Poll: The Silver Chair - Emerald or White Witch?

Past, present, and future.

Moderators: GlimGlum, Pattertwigs Pal

Should the Witch in SC be a different character from the White Witch?

Yes.
72
86%
No.
10
12%
Other, please state.
2
2%
 
Total votes : 84

Re: Poll: The Silver Chair - Emerald or White Witch?

Postby wolfloversk » Nov 01, 2010 6:49 pm

Josh wrote:I would boycott the series over something like having Aslan say "But there, I have other names"


You know, now that I think about it- technically that is true- but I'm getting off topic.
Frankly they are not the same person, and they were never meant to be,
that being said, I wouldn't mind Tilda being in the SC (not saying I'd like it, but I wouldn't dislike it either) as long as she doesn't appear as a witch! Didn't she play a centaur in PC? She could be that character again, and I would be perfectly okay with it.
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Re: Poll: The Silver Chair - Emerald or White Witch?

Postby Josh » Nov 01, 2010 7:14 pm

My guess is that they will cram one scene with her in the movie, even if its less then 10 seconds, just so they can put Tilda in the trailer.

For instance, when talking about how WW and LotGK are of the same crew, the movie may be showing some sort of flashback that shows WW and LotGK among other witches.

Another thing, is they may have the WW be a guiding spirit to the LotGK.


I still think that it would be one of the worst reasons to boycott the series. Because after all, there are a lot of people who think they are the same. I've often switched sides on the debate. Currently, I am pretty sure they arent the same. But still the line "Though Under Earth and Throneless now I be, While I lived All Earth Was Under Me" makes me sometimes wonder if that was the WW speaking in the form of LotGK. Becausse LotGK is under earth, and throneless (though she plans to overthrow Narnia). But in her previous life, all earth was under her when she ruled Narnia in the 100 years of winter.
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Re: Poll: The Silver Chair - Emerald or White Witch?

Postby wolfloversk » Nov 01, 2010 7:48 pm

Sometimes I wish Lewis was still alive so he could end this debate once and for all- then again, would he even give us an answer?
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Re: Poll: The Silver Chair - Emerald or White Witch?

Postby aragorn2 » Nov 01, 2010 8:15 pm

I think it was written by the giant king like Rillian said it was, that would explain why it was there.
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Re: Poll: The Silver Chair - Emerald or White Witch?

Postby Josh » Nov 01, 2010 10:03 pm

I know that, but still I get that vibe when I read it. After all, Rillain would only know what the Lady of the Green Kirtle told him. She could have lied and said it was from the giants.

And wasn't Jadis suppossed to be part giant anyway?
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Re: Poll: The Silver Chair - Emerald or White Witch?

Postby Bookwyrm » Nov 01, 2010 10:08 pm

Urnus wrote:On a related note, since when are Jadis and the White Witch the same? If it weren't for the quote in MN where Aslan says that most of the evil will fall on him, we would probably consider them to be different people, especially with the contradiction between the books as to her orgin.


Um, the fact that the WW is called Jadis in LWW? ;)) And there is no contradiction between the books as to Jadis' origin. There's absolutely no reason why she can't be a descendant of Lilith and be from Charn.
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Re: Poll: The Silver Chair - Emerald or White Witch?

Postby Josh » Nov 01, 2010 10:28 pm

I find it odd that Lewis mentioned Lilith. She's not from the Bible, so I don't know what religion believes in her. I never even knew who Lilith was until last year.
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Re: Poll: The Silver Chair - Emerald or White Witch?

Postby aragorn2 » Nov 02, 2010 5:44 am

What is Lilith, some deity?
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Re: Poll: The Silver Chair - Emerald or White Witch?

Postby Josh » Nov 02, 2010 7:56 am

Some people believe that Lilith was the first woman created before Eve and that she was made the same way Adam was. After that she and Adam had an argument (I won't go into the details but it basically had to do with superiority). God then cast Lilith out of Eden and she ended up becoming a very evil demon.

In order to correct the mistake of Lilith, God created Eve who he made out of Adam's rib. Some versions of the story depict Lilith as the serpant who tempted Eve.

I have several issues with the story myself, the two biggest reasons being that it wasnt in the Bible, and that it makes God seem stupid for making a mistake with the creation of Lilith (when it was clear that everything he created was perfect).
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Re: Poll: The Silver Chair - Emerald or White Witch?

Postby Sui-Lun » Nov 02, 2010 4:51 pm

I want to take a moment to answer this question.
Lewis had a reason for not saying they are different being in his novel. Do you want to know why?


BECAUSE ITS COMMON SENSE!!! The WHITE Witch died in Lww, and they introduce and EMERALD witch who goes by the lady of the green kirtle.

Of course Lewis wouldnt need to state they are not the same. Because any sane person first reading the book wouldnt come to that conclusion. Now because some grew up reading the misinformation in that one novel and BBC used the same actress, many thought it was what Lewis intended. -Invisible Woman


First, I think that just because he changed colors, that doesn't mean it's a different person, not that it means it's the same person either, IF you want to believe that. And it's common sense if you do want to believe that. But why didn't Lewis mention they're different? Because he knew that there would be a debate like this, and, even mentioned on Wikipedia (which is not ALWAYS a reliable site), that some people believe the witches are the same. He didn't mention it because he knew and didn't want anybody to claim stuff about it (okay, I accidentally did once) and so there would be no hurt feelings... that 'it is true! they're the same/ not the same...!' Film-makers can decide for themselves, and one can like the film or not and still not like the book.
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Re: Poll: The Silver Chair - Emerald or White Witch?

Postby aragorn2 » Nov 02, 2010 6:19 pm

Well I think Peridan and Bern are the same, they are both lords and they are both loyal to the king of Narnia.

It is totally ridiculous to claim 2 people with different features and personalities as the same simply because they both practice witchcraft.
Besides the WW was a giantess and she was pale because she ate the apple. And she was not even a spirit but a mortal like any of us until she ate the apple. And SHE IS DEAD.

The burden of proof is on the ones who claim they are the same not the ones who say they are different.
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Re: Poll: The Silver Chair - Emerald or White Witch?

Postby Bookwyrm » Nov 03, 2010 12:59 am

Wait, C. S. Lewis wrote something on Wikipedia? Cool, never knew heaven had internet before. :P C. S. Lewis DID say that the witches were different people. Go back and re-read SC. There are several references to Northern witches and the LotGK being of the same crew as the WW. There is nothing in the book to indicate that the two characters are the same. It's like claiming Rabadash and Tash are the same because they're both from Calormene and their names in in ash.
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Re: Poll: The Silver Chair - Emerald or White Witch?

Postby coracle » Nov 03, 2010 3:14 am

Josh wrote:But still the line "Though Under Earth and Throneless now I be, While I lived All Earth Was Under Me" makes me sometimes wonder if that was the WW speaking in the form of LotGK. Becausse LotGK is under earth, and throneless (though she plans to overthrow Narnia). But in her previous life, all earth was under her when she ruled Narnia in the 100 years of winter.


Josh, as I have mentioned several times, we had an official comment from Mr Gresham several years ago, in which he made it totally clear that Jadis (aka the White Witch) is a different person from the Lady of the Green Kirtle. He said that the same evil spirit may influence both of them.
This no more makes them the same than Nero and Hitler were the same because of being driven by the same sort of evil.
WW never spoke as LOTGK, because she was NOT her. Except in Hollywood (including the summoning scene in PC) people do not return from the dead etc.
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Re: Poll: The Silver Chair - Emerald or White Witch?

Postby Josh » Nov 03, 2010 2:29 pm

I wouldnt consider Gresham's statement on LotGK and WW official since it was Lewis who wrote the books and since Gresham may have just wanted to settle a heated debate.

I DONT think they are the same. But playing devil's advocate, that quote is the one thing that could give me a pause.
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Re: Poll: The Silver Chair - Emerald or White Witch?

Postby Urnus » Nov 05, 2010 2:15 pm

Bookwyrm wrote:Um, the fact that the WW is called Jadis in LWW? ;)) And there is no contradiction between the books as to Jadis' origin. There's absolutely no reason why she can't be a descendant of Lilith and be from Charn.


:-\ The WW is called Jadis in LWW? Where? I don't remember seeing it but it's been awhile since I read it.
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Re: Poll: The Silver Chair - Emerald or White Witch?

Postby aragorn2 » Nov 05, 2010 4:10 pm

She is called Jadis in Tumnus' arrest warrant.
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