Chapter 3 A Short Rest

[Pattertwigs Pal]

1. In this chapter elves are introduced. So far we have been introduced to three main races: hobbits, dwarves, and elves. How would you describe each group? Do you think the races are more similar or different?

2. How do you think Elrond's discovery of the Moon-Letters changed the dwarves' outlook on their adventure?

3. The elves in this chapter are full of gaiety and fun. How does their silliness balance with their wisdom, which Elrond so obviously possesses?

4. Why was Gandalf concerned about the valley hearing about their plans?

(Bonus question ). Elrond and his elves seem kind enough to the Dwarves, yet in Lord of the Rings, Tolkien plays the two races against each other. What do you think changed to make these two races, in less than a hundred years, go from being on good terms to much less sociable terms?

[Ithilwen]

Elrond and his elves seem kind enough to the Dwarves, yet in Lord of the Rings, Tolkien plays the two races against each other. What do you think changed to make these two races, in less than a hundred years, go from being on good terms to much less sociable terms?

I didn't get the impression that the relationship between races changed all that much between The Hobbit and LOTR. Their dislike of each other is especially shown once they encounter the Wood Elves later in the book. The Elves at Rivendell are very hospitable to everyone. But that's just it -- I think they are hospitable to everyone. No matter how they personally feel about each race. And even then, there is still a lot of teasing on the Elves' part, and grouchiness on the dwarves' part.


~Riella

[Meltintalle]

1. Hobbits are round and cozy, dwarves are square and cranky, and elves are long and cheery. That's something of an oversimplification, but kind of fun. I'm not sure how to describe the similarities, other than that they all have humanesque motivations...

2. They seem to have got their mojo back, at least temporarily...

3. My theory is that they are silly to balance out the gravity of the situation they are looking at. Obviously, the One Ring hasn't been found yet, but rumor has it they will be allying to drive the Necromancer out of Mirkwood, which is serious business.

4. The walls have ears. From Fellowship we know that birds are employed as spies, so that's probably the best answer.

[GlimGlum]

1. In this chapter elves are introduced. So far we have been introduced to three main races: hobbits, dwarves, and elves. How would you describe each group? Do you think the races are more similar or different?

Hobbits: Simple, fun-loving, hospitable, but wary of adventures.
Dwarves: Tough, determined, loyal, and grumblers, but like to sing songs too.
Elves: Mysterious, agile, wise, and playful who also like to sing songs.

3. The elves in this chapter are full of gaiety and fun. How does their silliness balance with their wisdom, which Elrond so obviously possesses?

I think that their playfulness and silliness is to balance out their wisdom and knowledge so they don't go bonkers.

[Pattertwigs Pal]

1. In this chapter elves are introduced. So far we have been introduced to three main races: hobbits, dwarves, and elves. How would you describe each group? Do you think the races are more similar or different?
Hobbits: simple people who like food and the comforts of life, generally do not have adventures.
Dwarves: quarrelsome, fiercely proud, revenge and greed motivate them.
Elves: At least some like teasing and silliness. They sing, are knowledgeable, know about what is going on in the world and gather news quickly.

I think if you asked them they would say they are very different. Each group does have some unique characteristics but they all seem to enjoy singing and food. they all have a sense of pride. Bilbo shows this in his not wanting to be mistaken for a dwarf. The elves seem to think they are better than dwarves and hobbits, based on the way they tease them.

2. How do you think Elrond's discovery of the Moon-Letters changed the dwarves' outlook on their adventure?
I think they are glad to get any information they can but I don't think it gave them much hope. Thorin seemed doubtful about figuring out when Durin's Day would be (I assume he was talking about the time when the sun and moon are both in the sky).

3. The elves in this chapter are full of gaiety and fun. How does their silliness balance with their wisdom, which Elrond so obviously possesses?
Being wise is often thought to go hand in hand with being serious. Just because one wise doesn't mean one can't partake in harmless silliness. Tolkien wrote: " His [Elrond's] house was perfect whether you liked food or sleep or work, or story-telling, or singing or just sitting and thinking best, or a pleasant mixture of them all." I imagine some like a mixture of the things. Wisdom comes with age. We know the elf that greeted them was "a young fellow." I would not be surprised if a lot of the elves that were singing and teasing were also young. If the situation required wisdom, I'm sure they would shed their silliness.

4. Why was Gandalf concerned about the valley hearing about their plans?
The trees are always listening - oops wrong book and wrong author. They weren't to the house yet and could still be overheard. The elves are obviously well connected and receive the latest news. If they can get news, they can spread it too. When one is sneaking up on a dragon it is best not to have too many people know your business. As Gandalf said, "some elves have over merry tongues."

(Bonus question ). Elrond and his elves seem kind enough to the Dwarves, yet in Lord of the Rings, Tolkien plays the two races against each other. What do you think changed to make these two races, in less than a hundred years, go from being on good terms to much less sociable terms?
Tolkien did mention that dwarves don't get on well with elves. Thorin seems to exhibit this when he says thank you "a bit gruffy"

SHOW SPOILER Hobbit and LotR

We know that the elves and dwarves had trouble in the past. Tolkien mentions so much when the dwarves are captured by the Wood-elves. the word became much darker in the time between the books. The fear this caused made people distrustful. I believe the old harms were remembered and that strengthened the distrust and strained the relation that hadn't been completely healed. Even though the quarrel between the Wood-elves and Thorins dwarves had been resolved or at least put aside, I wonder if that situation contributed to the tension between Legolas and Gimli. Also there are several different groups of elves. I think the elves of Rivendell are generally more hospitable than other groups of elves.

[ValiantArcher]

1. You all seem to have covered this pretty well already. One thing that did stand out to me is that all the races introduced so far love singing.

2. I think that it, along with their rest, buoyed them up and gave them a brighter outlook. At least until they left Rivendell.

3. Weeelll...every society and race has those members who don't fit very well with the majority, and sticking all the silly Elves with the hospitable and long-suffering Elrond would solve one problem. Seriously, I think you all have pretty much covered everything I thought about with regards to silliness and wisdom.

4. They're trying to move in a fair amount of secrecy, and as we know from other parts (at the very least, we hear of this in LotR), creatures of all sorts sneak about almost invisibly, and even animals can be spies.

Bonus question: They're on a bit of shaky terms here already; I think Elrond is very hospitable to everyone, and the Dwarves (particularly Thorin) would not break that hospitality. Additionally, as far as relations in LotR,

SHOW SPOILER

I don't think the Battle of the Five Armies really helped matters! It was a battle that had to be fought, but the Dwarves were the ones who stirred it up. Also, as you see when the Dwarves get to Mirkwood, relations there are very strained between the Elves and them. I think also, in LotR, the impending return of Sauron and the darkness spreading throughout Middle Earth strained pretty much all relationships.

[Movie Aristotle]

Everyone seems to be pretty much in agreement over the first 5 questions, so I'll just add a new question and comment.

Rivendell is a place to rest, relax, refresh and renew. What makes the place so? What is beautiful about the place? What is good? Personally, I think the natural surroundings would be spectacular, along with the cunning way that the house is built into the valley.

I think the elves themselves are good folk, fond of singing and merriment, skilled in healing, protecting and safekeeping. They are intelligent and wise. They are hospitable and kind. This is what makes them such good hosts. May we all remember these good traits when we have guests at our own homes.

[Ithilwen]

1. In this chapter elves are introduced. So far we have been introduced to three main races: hobbits, dwarves, and elves. How would you describe each group? Do you think the races are more similar or different?

Hobbits are merry, simple creatures who like to leave well alone and be left alone by the outside world. Dwarves are gruff, proud, and temperamental. Elves are beautiful, wise, and ancient. They are all very different. But if I had to pick one main similarity they have, I would say it's a pride they each share for their own race.

3. The elves in this chapter are full of gaiety and fun. How does their silliness balance with their wisdom, which Elrond so obviously possesses?

I think silliness can often be a sign of wisdom. It often goes along with happiness and satisfaction. It is only the truly nonsensical people who are so burdened by their own lives that they can't laugh or enjoy a joke.

4. Why was Gandalf concerned about the valley hearing about their plans?

Because in Middle Earth there are many spies. And he believed secrecy was crucial.


~Riella

[Varnafinde]

(Bonus question ). Elrond and his elves seem kind enough to the Dwarves, yet in Lord of the Rings, Tolkien plays the two races against each other. What do you think changed to make these two races, in less than a hundred years, go from being on good terms to much less sociable terms?

Elrond and his elves are kind enough to Dwarves even in Lord of the Rings - Legolas and Celeborn, who start out as sceptical to the Dwarves, do not belong to those. So I think it's their different history further back, rather than any events during those hundred years, that makes a difference.

In that history, different groups of Dwarves have had different relationships to different groups of Dwarves. In fact, Elrond's elves were even allied to a group of Dwarves in an early war against Sauron, before Sauron had lost the Ring (at that time, he had recently made it).

[7chronicles]

1. In this chapter elves are introduced. So far we have been introduced to three main races: hobbits, dwarves, and elves. How would you describe each group? Do you think the races are more similar or different?

1. Hobbits: Cheery, Kind, Simple.
Dwarves: Proud, Grim, Loyal.
Elves: Solemn, Wise, Courteous.

2. How do you think Elrond's discovery of the Moon-Letters changed the dwarves' outlook on their adventure?

2. I think it gave them all a second wind, and a renewed focus on the quest itself.
I could also see it giving them some concern for time as well, knowing that the keyhole would be revealed Durin's Day.

[Dinode]

Aditional question: Rivendell is a place to rest, relax, refresh and renew. What makes the place so? What is beautiful about the place? What is good?

For one thing, it is a shelter surrounded by dangerous and wild areas, and that will make any place seem better, especially if it is already good.

SHOW SPOILER

Also, Elrond has one of the Elven Rings, right? I think that enables him to mimic to a lesser degree either the first age or Valinor, certainly those rings had the power to preserve and heal.

[Varnafinde]

4. Why was Gandalf concerned about the valley hearing about their plans?
The trees are always listening - oops wrong book and wrong author. They weren't to the house yet and could still be overheard. The elves are obviously well connected and receive the latest news. If they can get news, they can spread it too. When one is sneaking up on a dragon it is best not to have too many people know your business. As Gandalf said, "some elves have over merry tongues."

Good point - and I think he was also worried that someone not belonging to Rivendell still could be close enough to it to be able to overhear them. The Elves would be able to keep such creatures away - but they might be lurking in the area where our company was at the moment.