Report on New York Preview Event *Big Plot Spoilers*

[Brisa]

Just read the article.
Why must the witch be defeated again?
And everything with the swords sounds really cheesy.
And Edmund does not seem to have matured any, contrary to what the article said.
And I'm getting more and more disappointed with this movie

[Glumpuddle]

Perhaps I read between the lines all wrong, but isn't he basically implying that he'd really like to kiss her even though they've just met? One might see this a thing of shallow physical atraction as well. In the trailer there's no mention of kissing at least. If you're gonna get mad at the movie for the whole physical atraction thing, then you should be furious with the book for having that in there.

I do think you're reading between the lines wrong. Caspian wants to be with RD; that's all we know. Had she "changed forms" to be less beautiful, I don't think it would have made any difference. Caspian falling in love with RD so quickly always suggested untold internal backstory to me. Perhaps this has been on Caspian's heart or mind for some time now? Was there something about RD that made him realize it was her he'd been seeking? VDT is about the longing for one's true home, and ultimately the joy of finding it. Caspian sailing to the world's end and returning with a bride is a part of that. (This is why I found the idea of Caspian dreaming about RD before meeting her interesting when I read it in the leaked script)
I also think Lewis can get away with this because he does such a good job at telling a fairy-tale. The movies, on the other hand, tend to try to be more grounded and realistic.

In the movie, it's clear it would've made all the difference if she'd changed forms because Caspian immediately shouts "No!" when she suggests changing form (presumably into a form that it less hot).

My point here is that there is a lot going on underneath the surface in the book. There's depth and subtlety. It suggests that there is more going on inside Caspian than we know, and ties into the main theme of the book. Whereas the movie bangs you over the head with it just to make you giggle. Nothing subtle about it. At least, that is how it comes across in the trailer.

This seems to be a case of the screenwriters knowing what Lewis wrote, but not knowing why he wrote it or what it actually means.

Also, as much as I hate to say this, having Edmund and Caspian both say "no" is probably a way of trying to adapt the book and show that she's supposed to be amazingly beautiful.

I agree with you here. This is often the case with films. But you can do that without resorting to the two kings tripping over their tongues and making fools of themselves.

But I don't think RD being beautiful is that important of a point. If audiences don't get that she's supposed to be very beautiful, I don't think they'd be missing much.

[Clive Staples Sibelius]

It amazes me how spoiled filmmakers are. In the book you've got two dragons, a sea serpent, mer-people, a dark island with nightmares, a girl who is a star, the edge of the world...and it's not enough. They want to add a witch, a fight between the serpent and dragon, an end of the world scenario, and Steve Austin vs. Randy Couture. If you had no witch in your book they'd add one. If you had just one they'd add another. Instead of cncentrating on what they have, they have to extrapolate to what they don't. The Focus on the Family audio versions put Walden to shame. They have an audio-only format to work with and they manage to stay completely faithful to the books.

[AslanIsOnTheMove]

I am unsure I believe it was true love and an inner longing the whole time thus bringing about love at first sight. I mean it could be. Since that was a first meeting and all the book said about her was that she was beautiful, I felt it was a bit shallow to begin with. Cute but shallow. Obviously, it was the real thing by the end regaurdless of how it started out, so as long as that's the end result in the film I'm happy.

I love Caspian's chartacter. He's my favorite in CoN besides Aslan. But in VDT, the book, I think he had some shallow moments. That may just be me. Was is the Duke of Galma's daughter? They thought he might take an interest in her, but he didn't because she, "squints and has freckles" and then he falls in love with Ramandu's daughter who, by the way, just happens to be the most beautiful woman he has ever seen.

I guess the big reason I don't think it was true love at first sight is because of that bit at the end of the world where he's having a tantrum because he can't go on with Reep. He nearly goes anyway, until Lucy reminds him that he made a promise to RD. If you have to be reminded of your love for someone and the only reason you don't completely abandon them is because you made a promise, I don't really see how that's true love.

C.S. Lewis was very good at depicting an inner longing for something. Reeps desire to go to the Utter East, Ed's desire for turkish delight, Jill's longing for water in SC ect. He never gave me the impression that Caspian had an inner longing to be with RD. I do think somewhere along the way it turned into more than just a physical attraction. After all, his promise to RD (and that talk with Aslan) is what kept him in Narnia. So it had to be more than, "Hey, you're hot!" at that point, but I don't believe it started out that way.

You may be correct, though. Caspian/RD is not a thing that was drawn out in the books. There isn't enough information given to say anything either way. It could've been love at first sight, or it could've been physical attraction. I like the idea of him dreaming about her. Aslo, if you've ever read my Caspian/RD fan fiction, I like the idea of Ramandu's daughter having watched Caspian as a star in the heavens. I think that "I've loved you my whole life and now I can finally see you" sort of thing is really sweet. I will not say that is or is not what happened in the book, but that's just not what the book suggested to me.

Since there are many things left up to the imagination, in the books (Caspian/ RD is just one of the many) I do not envy the film-makers. Every one of us probably imagined something different, and took different themes away from the Chronicles. There is no way one movie can accurately depict what's in all of our heads. Some changes from book to screen are simply ways of imagining things that we hadn't thought of. Of course, the seven swords plot can't be found anywhere in the books, but a few changes are easily justified.

[Clive Staples Sibelius]

Since there are many things left up to the imagination, in the books (Caspian/ RD is just one of the many) I do not envy the film-makers. Every one of us probably imagined something different, and took different themes away from the Chronicles. There is no way one movie can accurately depict what's in all of our heads. Some changes from book to screen are simply ways of imagining things that we hadn't thought of. Of course, the seven swords plot can't be found anywhere in the books, but a few changes are easily justified.

Good post. But in my view, a filmmaker's job --when adapting-- is to re-create that sense of longing that Lewis evokes so well. Even if they had to cut something to do it, if they managed to "get" that idea and put on film it would be a worthy adaptation of what VDT means to readers. I don't think the filmmakers have to get EVERYTHING right as I imagine it. I don't care about that. But if they don't get ANYTHING right they've failed.

For all my issues with Adamson's LWW as a whole, it does succeed in capturing the "wonder" you get when reading the book (esp. when first reading it). So at the end of the day I can watch it without much complaint because it managed to capture that sense of wonder that comes from discovering a new world.

[Reepicheep775]

I also got the impression that Ramandu's Daughter was the girl Caspian had been waiting for his whole life. C.S. Lewis really liked The Faerie Queene by Edmund Spenser and the main character of the book has dreamed about his true love and he sets out to find her. I know C.S. Lewis was inspired by this book and I think this might be one of those times where he applied it to his writings. And if not this book, there are plenty of other 'true love books' that may have inspired him.

I guess the big reason I don't think it was true love at first sight is because of that bit at the end of the world where he's having a tantrum because he can't go on with Reep. He nearly goes anyway, until Lucy reminds him that he made a promise to RD. If you have to be reminded of your love for someone and the only reason you don't completely abandon them is because you made a promise, I don't really see how that's true love.

The reason for this I think is it shows that even Caspian's true love and ruling Narnia pales in comparison to Aslan's Country.

As for the line about the girl who "squints and has freckles", this shows that Caspian is looking for his true love and he knows that the Duke's daughter isn't the one he was looking for. He would've known it immediatley. Is Caspian being vain here? Perhaps, but physical attraction is important. It isn't nearly as important as people make it out to be, but if you're not attracted to someone, you're just not.

[AslanIsOnTheMove]

Since there are many things left up to the imagination, in the books (Caspian/ RD is just one of the many) I do not envy the film-makers. Every one of us probably imagined something different, and took different themes away from the Chronicles. There is no way one movie can accurately depict what's in all of our heads. Some changes from book to screen are simply ways of imagining things that we hadn't thought of. Of course, the seven swords plot can't be found anywhere in the books, but a few changes are easily justified.

Good post. But in my view, a filmmaker's job --when adapting-- is to re-create that sense of longing that Lewis evokes so well. Even if they had to cut something to do it, if they managed to "get" that idea and put on film it would be a worthy adaptation of what VDT means to readers. I don't think the filmmakers have to get EVERYTHING right as I imagine it. I don't care about that. But if they don't get ANYTHING right they've failed.

For all my issues with Adamson's LWW as a whole, it does succeed in capturing the "wonder" you get when reading the book (esp. when first reading it). So at the end of the day I can watch it without much complaint because it managed to capture that sense of wonder that comes from discovering a new world.

That's just my point, though. The books are very deep in a simplistic way. They mean something different to different people. For you and glumpuddle the theme which speaks the loudest is longing and destiny. To me, the thing that speaks the loudest is redemption and Eustace's transformation. To others it's adventure and discovery of the unknown. To some it's temptation. There are probably many more themes that speak to different people. How are the film-makers to emphasize all the themes in a two hour movie without making it so preachy that the people who aren't saved won't come?

I am all for preaching to the lost and talking about God no matter who it offends, don't get me wrong. But it would be difficult to cram every spiritual theme into the movie and still keep the secular audience interested. Sad to say, without the secular audience the Chronicles would flop, because the Christian audience would still find flaws in it and speak badly of it. If I'm not mistaken, some Christians even have negatives to say about the books because of all the paganism in them.

This is why I'm ok with most of the changes, I think. They are doing the best they can to make an adaption of a Christian book that will still keep the secular audience interested. They have to be able to fit the Christian elements in a two hour film in order to keep us happy, but they can't let that be all there is or it won't sell.

That's another thing I don't understand. With the trailers and bringing Tilda back and 3D, the main thing I keep hearing is "Oh this is lame and cheap, they're just using gimmicks and trying to sell this! They just want to make money!" Why is that a problem? Those of you who have jobs, even if you absolutely adore your job, don't you hope to get money out of it? Don't you do what you can to earn a little extra? Why is it so bad that these people would also like to make money? They have to do everything they can, use gimmicks, use Tilda, use 3D, and so on, if they hope to sell this film. If VDT doesn't sell, then the Narnia movies are done, to my understanding. If they like doing the series at all, then they will have to do what sells. That's just how it goes.

It isn't fair to say, "The book would appeal to the general public because it would appeal to me." Of course it would appeal to you. You were attracted to the books in the first place. (I am not just talking to you, Clive, and please don't feel like I'm bashing anyone over the head. ) This movie will bring people in who otherwise wouldn't give the books a second thought. It will expose them to the themes of the books and maybe get them curious.

One more thing that I will say on my rant is this: I hear people say they don't like the way Aslan is portrayed in the films. In my honest opinion, worst portrayal of the True Aslan there could ever be is an up-tight, fault-finding Christian who could never be pleased. I think being a book fan is awesome, I am one. But some act like book worshipers. The Chronicles are not the Bible, they don't have to be perfect.

That's my opinion. I don't mean to be rude or offensive, but I think that's my big problem with all the negativity on the forums. It makes us look self-righteous and unpleasable. That is not a good reflection of Aslan.

Thus ends my rant. I am not mad, and this is not aimed toward anyone (if the shoe fits then wear it, as they say) just needed to put that out there.

[Clive Staples Sibelius]

That's just my point, though. The books are very deep in a simplistic way. They mean something different to different people. For you and glumpuddle the theme which speaks the loudest is longing and destiny. To me, the thing that speaks the loudest is redemption and Eustace's transformation. To others it's adventure and discovery of the unknown. To some it's temptation. There are probably many more themes that speak to different people. How are the film-makers to emphasize all the themes in a two hour movie without making it so preachy that the people who aren't saved won't come?

Good post again! The redemption of Eustace speaks very loudly to me. As does the healing of Caspian's nurse near the end of "Prince Caspian," which until today I hadn't realized how potent a scene it was. Almost everything about the books speaks to me. I've never shed that many tears during movies.

I am all for preaching to the lost and talking about God no matter who it offends, don't get me wrong. But it would be difficult to cram every spiritual theme into the movie and still keep the secular audience interested. Sad to say, without the secular audience the Chronicles would flop, because the Christian audience would still find flaws in it and speak badly of it. If I'm not mistaken, some Christians even have negatives to say about the books because of all the paganism in them.

So glad you brought this up! I'm writing a paper about this subject (paganism in Narnia) this semester for a children's liteature class. You are correct: the filmmakers have soft ground to tread in order not to sound preachy, and we wouldn't have gone this far without a secular audience. But I don't think Narnia falls apart when you (a general you) realize what Narnia is "about" (though it isn't just about that). But I don't think the filmmakers have to change the story just to appeal to secular audiences, or that secular audiences would necessarily be offended if the story/message was left intact.

There's a book called "The Magician's Book: A Skeptic's Journey Through Narnia." The author made her way BACK to Narnia as an atheist adult after reading Philip Pullman's anti-Lewis response "His Dark Materials." She felt that the Narnia books transcended their Christian message. I think the point to see here is that while the message behind Narnia can seem overly-prominent, it doesn't have to. A lot of people who complain about Narnia being "too preachy" haven't actually read Nania more than once if at all. Some of the people who complain about "His Dark Materials" haven't read it either, though they should. It's a masterful story up until he second book. In the third book it just gets insane and weird.

You don't have to read Narnia ten times to find the message. But you do have to read them more times to read not JUST the message. And THEN the Christian message won't seem so obvious or preachy. I think it's this way for me: the more experience I've had, the more I've been able to connect with Lewis characters (Shasta, Eustace especially). The older I get, the bigger Narnia becomes.

I thought I was going to get to the movie...but it's late now

[Valiant]

This movie may bring in a variety of people who otherwise wouldn't get to see Narnia but i feel what they would be seeing is a distorted Narnia. I don't want people to think these books are like rip offs of LotR or something which is what many people were thinking after the first two movies.

[SeaSiren]

awww.. no more sexy italian accent?

but anyway, Looks like its going to be a good movie. I'm glad they decided to make in 3D!

MUST RESERVE TICKETS ASAP

[Josh]

I found the "sexy italian accent" rather annoying. I think its good they dropped it.

[Valiant]

I thought it was supposed to be a Spanish accent...Ya I'm glad they got rid of it as well .

[Bookwyrm]

I thought it was supposed to be an Inigo Montoya accent.

[Liberty Hoffman]

^^ he said in an interview that he was trying for the Inigo Montoya accent.....

[aragorn2]

Whatever it was supposed to be good riddance