"Always winter and never Christmas"

C. S. Lewis, his worlds, and his faith.

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Re: "Always winter and never Christmas"

Postby 220chrisTian » Feb 18, 2010 4:37 pm

Pattertwig wrote:Nature seems to know who Jesus is while people don't always see it.
Interesting point, and good examples from the series in comparing this with Aslan. :)

Lady G wrote:And this winter would actually be evil because it is created by the Witch's power; it's not a natural winter. And so it melts when Aslan comes nearer because the Witch's power is being broken.
Pattertwig wrote:The problem with the Witch's winter was that it was too long and lacked celebrations. It was not only cold in temperature but cold in spirit. The witch didn't allow them any joy.
Excellent observations, both of you. Interestingly, I read a Daily Bread blog post today about just this, after I read Psalm 42 this morning. :p
If it weren’t for the reality of Christ’s birth, not only would winter be dark and dreary, but our hearts would be bleak and have nothing to hope for. No hope for the freedom from guilt and judgment. No hope of His reassuring and strengthening presence through dark and difficult times. No hope for a future secured in heaven.

In the winter of a troubled life, the psalmist asked, “Why are you cast down, O my soul?” The remedy was clear: “Hope in God, for I shall yet praise Him for the help of His countenance” (Ps. 42:5).

In C. S. Lewis’ tales of Narnia, Mr. Tumnus complains that in Narnia it is “always winter and never Christmas.” But for those of us who know the God who made the seasons, it is always Christmas in our hearts!
The author's final advice? "Let the reality of Christmas chase away the blahs of winter." B-)

Narnia wrote:Also the fact that there is no real civilzation in Narnia until King Miraz comes to rule shows that the world is very young and full of nature and not man-made things.
What do you mean? Narnia had a "real civilization" long before Miraz showed up. The Golden Age of Narnia was the reign of the 4 kings and queens. I think Miraz plunged Narnia back into a "dark ages" of sorts. /:)
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Re: "Always winter and never Christmas"

Postby Lady Robin » Feb 19, 2010 9:19 pm

Hey, thanks for clearing that up! It's awesome to see so many examples of the similarities w/ the series & the Bible. Ha, yes, I understand why we wouldn't want endless winter. Thanks again! :ymhug:
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Re: "Always winter and never Christmas"

Postby 220chrisTian » Feb 28, 2010 2:04 pm

@Lady Robin: you're welcome. :)

I read the following in Lewis's essay "The Grand Miracle" [about Jesus Christ's incarnation, death, and resurrection]. In it he contrasts winter and spring, comparing the latter to the resurrection of the dead in Christ. Source: "The Grand Miracle," God in the Dock: Essays on Theology and Ethics, ed. Walter Hooper, Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1970, 87-88.
The day will come when there will be a re-made universe, infinitely obedient to the will of glorified and obedient men, when we can do all things, when we shall be those gods that we are described as being in Scripture. To be sure, it feels wintry enough still: but often in the very early spring it feels like that. Two thousand years are only a day or two by this scale. A man really ought to say, 'The Resurrection happened two thousand years ago' in the same spirit in which he says, 'I saw a crocus yesterday.' Because we know what is coming behind the crocus. The spring c[o]mes slowly down this way; but the great thing is that the corner has been turned. There is, of course, this difference, that in the natural spring the crocus cannot choose whether it will respond or not. We can. We have the power either of withstanding the spring, and sinking back into the cosmic winter, or of going on into those 'high mid-summer pomps' in which our Leader, the Son of man, already dwells, and to which He is calling us. It remains with us to follow or not, to die in this winter, or to go on into that spring and that summer.


So ... your thoughts? :)
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Re: "Always winter and never Christmas"

Postby daughter of the King » Mar 07, 2010 3:29 pm

Interesting essay, I shall have to read the whole thing. I especially liked:
220chrisTian wrote:There is, of course, this difference, that in the natural spring the crocus cannot choose whether it will respond or not. We can. We have the power either of withstanding the spring, and sinking back into the cosmic winter, or of going on into those 'high mid-summer pomps' in which our Leader, the Son of man, already dwells, and to which He is calling us. It remains with us to follow or not, to die in this winter, or to go on into that spring and that summer.

This reminds me of when the Holy Spirit is calling us, but we have the choice to respond or not. We can harden our hearts against Him, much like Nikabrik hardened himself against Aslan and instead chose to join with the followers the White Witch even though her winter was destroyed by Aslan. He chose winter over spring because he thought winter was more powerful. In a way it is, winter kills the growing things and the animals go into hibernation; but the spring always comes back.
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Re: "Always winter and never Christmas"

Postby HighQueenofNarnia » Mar 09, 2010 6:49 pm

220chrisTian wrote:I changed the topic of this thread hoping to get more responses... :p

Anyway, why do Tumnus and Lucy say "always winter and never Christmas" in LWW? Why does Lewis put those words in their mouths, or in the book itself? What's the spiritual connection between winter and Christmas? Or the spiritual meaning behind the change from winter to spring? What role does nature play in LWW?

Discuss away! :)

Nature is one of the many tools that C.S. Lewis uses to emphasize the story. For example, in LWW, Lucy enters Narnia in the wintertime. She doesn't know that it is a bad winter- one held in place by fear and enchantment, instead of being natural; it is one without hope. But when she learns that the winter held in place is bad, the book starts to take a downturn- Lucy must run away from the Witch, Edmund betrays his siblings and is captured by the Witch, Mr. Tumnus is arrested and turned into stone, the Witch chases the kids with Edmund in tow, and things of that ilk. All of this happens in the winter, which C.S. Lewis uses to portray unnatural evil. But then Spring comes along, and the Pevensies make it to Aslan's camp and meet Aslan (the epitome of all things good), the Witch gets stuck (was I the only one who found that hilarious?), Edmund is rescued, his siblings forgive him, Edmund is able to "start over" (rebirth- does spring ring a bell?), and, although there are consequences for what Edmund did, Aslan finally defeats the Witch- and her evil, unnatural winter- once and for all. The children become Kings and Queens because Aslan says they are, and Narnia again becomes the natural, beautiful country that Aslan created it to be.
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Re: "Always winter and never Christmas"

Postby DestrierDragon » Jun 12, 2010 8:45 am

This is an excellent thread :) Hope you don't mind my late entrance and continuation! :-s
I love all the responses...it's amazing how much we can find inside these books...i don't think even C.S. Lewis could have imagined how much his words have become to us, and how much truth we can find in them! :ymapplause:

When I think of the Nature of Narnia, (which is really part of the Narnian people) I think of how we really are.
We are dead without Christ. As dead as a tree looks in winter. Somewhere inside we have the potential to become alive, but we aren't. We don't have the strength to melt the snow that is freezing us on our own. Then Aslan arrives, and his breath begins to course through the trees. The life inside the trees begins to bear fruit, and flowers bloom. His life sets movement into the frozen rivers again, and they roar after him. Where his paws tread the life spreads out from his touch life ripples in a glass lake, it resonates and sets to movement everything that was still. :ymhug: The other creatures of Narnia can choose to be filled with Aslan's life, or not. The trees and rivers and nature can't be alive UNLESS it is with Aslan's life.

Have you noticed how still winter is? No Christmas, no celebration, no singing, no reason to move and bustle about. Everything is deathly still. It's all wrong. But that's just it isn't it? :-\
"Wrong will be right when Aslan comes in sight" :)
The nature of Narnia is to me the tangible life that Aslan is, every bit of life Narnia's nature is is all because of the part of Aslan coursing through them.

"Remain in me, and I will remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.I am the vine; you are the branches. If a man remains in me and I in him, he will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing. 6If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers" ;) John 15
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Re: "Always winter and never Christmas"

Postby 220chrisTian » Jun 14, 2010 12:19 pm

Excellent post, Destrier! Glad you joined the conversation! :ymhug: I especially love this part.
We are dead without Christ. As dead as a tree looks in winter. Somewhere inside we have the potential to become alive, but we aren't. We don't have the strength to melt the snow that is freezing us on our own. Then Aslan arrives, and his breath begins to course through the trees. The life inside the trees begins to bear fruit, and flowers bloom. His life sets movement into the frozen rivers again, and they roar after him. Where his paws tread the life spreads out from his touch life ripples in a glass lake, it resonates and sets to movement everything that was still. The other creatures of Narnia can choose to be filled with Aslan's life, or not. The trees and rivers and nature can't be alive UNLESS it is with Aslan's life.
It's so true, isn't it? And the John 15 parallel is apt! Thanks for quoting! :)
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Re: "Always winter and never Christmas"

Postby narnia royalty » Jun 30, 2010 11:43 am

I don't know if this aspect has been brought up. I'm just now getting on this thread and I kinda skimmed over it before responding.

But my point of view on how creation in Narnia responds to Aslan is that Aslan, in Narnia, is "the King of the whole wood" The same as Jesus is "Lord of all creation."

In the books though I have noticed that with the "it's always winter in Narnia," creation is responding to the power of evil, the same way that earth responds more to evil than they do the way of the Lord.
God said in the Bible that this would happen as Satan is the Prince of the Power of the air (i'm paraphrasing).
This seems to me that every evil source in Narnia leads Narnia away from Aslan "their savior" The same way satan leads Gods people away from their savior, Jesus.
This continues throughout the books, sometimes though not so subtly as in The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe, but it's still there.
In a way I feel that Lewis painted a picture using real aspects of life and made them into something even a child would understand.

That's just my opinion, sorry if it was in anyway confusing. I tend to ramble. lol :)
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