Telmarines like the biblical Gentiles?

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Telmarines like the biblical Gentiles?

Postby Amat » May 17, 2011 1:17 pm

I noticed what seems to me a paraell (how do you spell that?) a couple of days ago, not taking credit for it though, someone may have noticed before me, :)
but does the inclusion of the Telmarines (Caspian/Rillian) into Narnia's royal line remind yall of the inclusion of the Gentiles into Christianity in the New Testament?

It's a beautiful paradox to me, particularly in the movie Prince Caspian, when the prince is surrounded by the old Narnians, who distrust him. Also when Aslan told Caspian, when he felt unworthy, "It is for that very reason, you are."

"I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not; I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by my name."
Isaiah 65:1

Compare Caspian's belief vs. Trumpkin (old Narnian's belief)

I know in the movie it is not evident how much Caspian believes in Aslan, but I know in the book it is very evident. It reminds me of how God adopted us, made us adopted Jews.

Thoughts?
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Re: Telmarines like the biblical Gentiles?

Postby Elluinas Mirion » May 19, 2011 11:10 pm

I had a much more terrifying thought... Nordmenschen ar cymri, Europeans and Native Americans, Romans and "Britons"; shall I go on?

I don't want this to be a political "guilt trip", #:-s but well, Lewis being half irish and half welsh (?) and given the internal history of Narnia well, you see, it just means the implications of what you suggest are all the more dramatic:

We came
We saw X(
We conquered
We repented. (after 500 years) :ymblushing:
We kissed and made up (from Caspian X to Tirian) :((

And of course as in the magician's nephew, it was always a land made to be ruled by a Son of Adam (ok, Daughter of Eve, we'll be inclusive). :ymhug:

edit on 5/20:

I wasn't talking about conquering, I was talking about an adoption.


Yes, yes. All you say is very true. But in order to be adopted, the gentiles had to be reconciled to their "adoptor" and renounce that aspect of their former selves that is in opposition/antagonism with their new family. So adoption implies reconciliation (or conciliation). Even Saul/Paul had to be reconciled to the very thing he believed in. For Caspian this was easy, as you point out. What was not so easy was the process of reconciling his People with the Narnians: of facing up to the history of Caspian "dai ichi", through IX (Miraz was not an anomaly, just ambtious). BTW, there is a deep side story in the faith of Trumpkin/Nickabrick/Cornelius that is worth discussing.

Rightful King of the Telmari by birth, King of Narnia via election by the Lion Himself.

The implications of the adoption you suggest are thus much more dramatic; they are the conjunction of Tarva and Al-Ambil, the ending of centuries of misery and conflict. Sadly this aspect was short changed in the movie, along with the romp through Beruna.

Too bad this doesn't happen in the real world more often.

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Re: Telmarines like the biblical Gentiles?

Postby Amat » May 20, 2011 1:44 am

I wasn't talking about conquering, I was talking about an adoption. When the Gentiles in the New Testament converted to Christianity, they were adopted into the family of God, with the disciples who were Jews and all who were saved.

Caspian was not a conqueror. Now Miraz was, under him the Narnians had to go into hiding. But Caspian not only fought for their freedom, he also came to believe in Aslan. Aslan made him king of Narnia, he didn't make himself that, so therefore he did not conquer them. Miraz did.
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Re: Telmarines like the biblical Gentiles?

Postby StarAsterisk » May 30, 2011 11:44 am

Interesting thought Amat! Whether Lewis intended this conection to be made I know not, but it seems plausible.

I really liked how in the end Aslan invited the Telmarines to go back to where they came from or just stay in Narnia but under new rule. I think that's a good way of handling things that perhaps people should take example from... (was that a bit random and off topic? :ymblushing: )
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Re: Telmarines like the biblical Gentiles?

Postby Aravis Narnia » Jun 12, 2011 4:55 pm

Could be. Could work. Christianity is an open religion that anyone can belong to.

Now I wonder at point in history did the pirates leave Europe. The uniforms used in the movie seem very Renaissance like- but they may have adopted an earlier form, not just the most recent fashions.
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Re: Telmarines like the biblical Gentiles?

Postby Lilygloves » Sep 04, 2011 3:11 pm

That is a very good point and I agree, we are adopted into Christ's family just as the Telmarines were adopted into Narnian culture. But there are also the Calormens. Aravis is a good example of a Tarkeena that "converts" from Tash/Tisroc to Aslan. And in a way, Shasta converts as well. Even though he is already an Archenlander, he doesn't know or follow the teachings of the North. He also "converts" just as Caspian did.
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