EUSTACE SWEARS IN DAWN TREADER???

C. S. Lewis, his worlds, and his faith.

Moderators: coracle, Lady Arwen

Re: EUSTACE SWEARS IN DAWN TREADER???

Postby Aslanisthebest » Aug 02, 2011 7:34 pm

*did not notice anything, but has not watched the movie a second time or with subtitles* That is rather odd. But, still, in PC, Lucy said "gosh", which is a euphamism. There is a different, though.

*never got surprised at "ass" being mentioned in TMN* I guessed that Polly was calling Digory a donkey. The word is in one of our Christmas hymns: "What Child is this, who lays to rest, [...] where ox and ass are sleeping." It really orginally means donkey. I'm guessing it's more of an old-term since unrefined definitions have now made themselves synonymous with the word. But I'm absolutely sure Lewis meant "donkey." EDIT: Referring to Warrior's post below, I guess it isn't a donkey? ;)) Anywho, he said it's something similar, so it most definitely doesn't mean the modern definition for it.

As for the Dem', I take (and I stand to be corrected) it is not a serious curse word in Britain as it is in the U.S.? (same with the adjective for blood) So it never bothers me reading it in the books. I don't think I'll ever use the word, but it only appears a few times in the book, so it doesn't make me dislike the book or anything. (I admit, I was very surprised to see Jill say it. With Uncle Andrew, it did not take me by surprise.) Does the full word ever appear in print in the books? I can't remember.
Image
RL Sibling: CSLewisNarnia
User avatar
Aslanisthebest
Moderator Emeritus
 
Posts: 5623
Joined: May 18, 2008
Location: Here

Re: EUSTACE SWEARS IN DAWN TREADER???

Postby Warrior 4 Jesus » Aug 03, 2011 7:56 am

Actually an ass isn't a donkey, only something quite similar, but that's arguing semantics.
Currently watching:
Doctor Who - Season 11
User avatar
Warrior 4 Jesus
NarniaWeb Master
 
Posts: 10045
Joined: Mar 06, 2005
Location: Australia
Gender: Male

Re: EUSTACE SWEARS IN DAWN TREADER???

Postby Louloudi the Centaur » Aug 03, 2011 11:19 am

All I can say is, all the characters in Narnia, except Aslan, in both book and film, have their faults. They are sinners. We all are. We all swear, even if unintentionally, we have our wrongs.

Don't expect the characters to act perfect, though Eustace using God's name in vain I actually thought was a good detail to show his sinful deeds.

I'll admit I was a little upset when I first heard this, but I eventually got over it.
Louloudi the Centaur
NarniaWeb Junkie
 
Posts: 920
Joined: Jun 09, 2011
Gender: Female

Re: EUSTACE SWEARS IN DAWN TREADER???

Postby D-T » Aug 22, 2011 3:04 pm

When I read silver chair I was very shocked to see jill say
"well it's d@m' good of you" but it might not have been bad when the books were written, and it was in england and I don't know whats swear words and whats not. but yah I get the point
SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS
SSSSSSSSSSS
User avatar
D-T
NarniaWeb Regular
 
Posts: 77
Joined: Aug 21, 2011
Location: My head is in the clouds, Im not really sure what the rest of me is doing...
Gender: Female

Re: EUSTACE SWEARS IN DAWN TREADER???

Postby Aravis Narnia » Aug 26, 2011 4:29 pm

I think C.S. Lewis is exploring the concept of why is taking the Higher Power's title in vain such an issue. Contrast the Narnian's saying "by the Lion" or "by the Lion's mane" vs. the Earthlings saying "by Jove". Yup, the Narnians are swearing by their deity that they are very much aware of, while the Earthlings are swearing by an ancient pagan deity that nobody really worships anymore. I wonder if C.S. Lewis is stating that there are simply waaaaaay worse things you can do besides taking the Lord's name in vain.

I do admit to saying "A Certain Someone" most of the time instead of Aslan's Secret Identity, but that is just a personal quirk.
User avatar
Aravis Narnia
NarniaWeb Fanatic
 
Posts: 4546
Joined: Oct 09, 2009
Location: Florida
Gender: Female

Re: EUSTACE SWEARS IN DAWN TREADER???

Postby Graymouser » Aug 26, 2011 9:48 pm

Just before that in SC Eustace says "Oh, Lor" (capital 'L', no 'd')

And the Cabby (later King Frank) says "Gawd! Ain't it lovely" during the Creation of Narnia.

I'd say Lewis was just more broad-minded on what he considered to be profanity.
The difference is that people wanted to hear the stories, whereas I never met anyone who wanted to read the essays
Graymouser
NarniaWeb Nut
 
Posts: 137
Joined: Feb 23, 2011
Location: Formosa- the Beautiful Isle
Gender: Male

Re: EUSTACE SWEARS IN DAWN TREADER???

Postby Ithilwen » Aug 26, 2011 11:45 pm

^^ Indeed. He seemed almost to think that taking the Lord's Name in vain was a sort of honor. Especially in the instance with Bree, when they say Narnians swear only by Aslan.

On another note, is saying "God" or "Lord" in that manner, swearing in the first place? Not according to the Ten Commandments. If you go to the original texts and read the Ten Commandments, when it says "do not take the Lord's Name in vain" it is talking about making oaths -- promising something in God's Name -- when you have no intention of following through with it. It has nothing to do with using His name as a curse word.


~Riella =:)
User avatar
Ithilwen
NarniaWeb Zealot
 
Posts: 5885
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
Location: Taking over the world while twirling my evil girlstache.
Gender: Female

Re: EUSTACE SWEARS IN DAWN TREADER???

Postby Bookwyrm » Aug 30, 2011 12:23 am

And I would argue that even if the commandment referred to people saying things like "Ohmygosh!", it certainly wouldn't apply to the Narnians' use of "By the Lion!" and things like that. There's nothing inherently disrespectful about what they're saying.
User avatar
Bookwyrm
Moderator Emeritus
Lord of the Little Ponies
 
Posts: 14298
Joined: Sep 30, 2006
Location: Behind you
Gender: Male

Re: EUSTACE SWEARS IN DAWN TREADER???

Postby Graymouser » Aug 30, 2011 6:09 pm

Yes, it depends on the attitude- though I imagine even Narnians slip at times.

"OhmyAslan, did you see the way Hwin's braided her mane?"


One of my favorite quotes is Cromwell's heartfelt plea to the Scottish Presbyterian Elders, seeking to avoid a war:

"I beseech you, in the bowels of Christ, think it possible you may be mistaken."

(but, as historian John Prebble noted, " as they had never considered such a possibility before, they saw no reason to start now.")
The difference is that people wanted to hear the stories, whereas I never met anyone who wanted to read the essays
Graymouser
NarniaWeb Nut
 
Posts: 137
Joined: Feb 23, 2011
Location: Formosa- the Beautiful Isle
Gender: Male

Re: EUSTACE SWEARS IN DAWN TREADER???

Postby Aslanisthebest » Aug 30, 2011 7:58 pm

Riella wrote: It has nothing to do with using His name as a curse word.
This may be touching the same point, but in The Lord's Prayer doesn't it say "Hallowed be thy name" indicating it's wrong to use God's name as a curse word.
Image
RL Sibling: CSLewisNarnia
User avatar
Aslanisthebest
Moderator Emeritus
 
Posts: 5623
Joined: May 18, 2008
Location: Here

Re: EUSTACE SWEARS IN DAWN TREADER???

Postby Ithilwen » Aug 31, 2011 6:19 pm

Aslanisthebest wrote:This may be touching the same point, but in The Lord's Prayer doesn't it say "Hallowed be thy name" indicating it's wrong to use God's name as a curse word.


That scripture just seems to indicate God's name is Holy; something that should be respected. So I guess it all depends on whether you think using His name in that manner is disrespectful. Lewis obviously didn't think so, since (from what Bree said to Shasta) it was almost like an act of reverence in his eyes.


~Riella =:)
User avatar
Ithilwen
NarniaWeb Zealot
 
Posts: 5885
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
Location: Taking over the world while twirling my evil girlstache.
Gender: Female

Re: EUSTACE SWEARS IN DAWN TREADER???

Postby Aslanisthebest » Aug 31, 2011 7:45 pm

Do you mean "By the Lion"? (or something like that--sorry I can't remember. ;)) ) I don't find that disrespectful--like you said, it's more reverence.

I thought you were referring to the cabby's "Gawd" or "Lor' " (both of which I probably would not use. Especially the former, though. The latter...I wouldn't use it, but it doesn't come off to me as disrespectful as the first, but I'm a little undecided. I don't think the cabby or whoever said "Lor'" was trying to be disrespctful, though. Lewis probably just used them... I don't really hold it against him or whatever. ;)) )
Image
RL Sibling: CSLewisNarnia
User avatar
Aslanisthebest
Moderator Emeritus
 
Posts: 5623
Joined: May 18, 2008
Location: Here

Re: EUSTACE SWEARS IN DAWN TREADER???

Postby Hermitess of Narnia » Sep 10, 2011 1:49 pm

It may be Bree's way of acknowledging Aslan, only I would avoid saying that sort of thing myself. Generally on television, "Oh my ----" is used irreverently, when really trivial things happen, or someone gets injured. It's being used as a throwaway word that people just use when they are excited, and that's the problem, it can lead to some not taking God seriously.
User avatar
Hermitess of Narnia
NarniaWeb Nut
 
Posts: 108
Joined: May 18, 2009
Gender: Female

Re: EUSTACE SWEARS IN DAWN TREADER???

Postby Warrior 4 Jesus » Sep 12, 2011 2:07 am

True, Hermitess. In the case of VDT though, I've watched it twice in total (why? why?) and I don't remember any swearing and I was watching it intently to try and find some good things about it.
Currently watching:
Doctor Who - Season 11
User avatar
Warrior 4 Jesus
NarniaWeb Master
 
Posts: 10045
Joined: Mar 06, 2005
Location: Australia
Gender: Male

Re: EUSTACE SWEARS IN DAWN TREADER???

Postby skilletfreak291 » Sep 14, 2011 11:00 am

honestly, i don't believe it at all. but it's not our call to jugde or say negitive things.
we just need to pray,okay? ;)
Christmas is Coming so soon
[b]but we know the True Reason for the season
User avatar
skilletfreak291
NarniaWeb Nut
 
Posts: 127
Joined: Aug 06, 2010
Location: n/a
Gender: Female

Re: EUSTACE SWEARS IN DAWN TREADER???

Postby Lion's Emblem » Oct 11, 2011 8:49 pm

I am not one who can say what is right or what is wrong, I can only say what I feel. The first time I watched VDT (I have only been able to sit through it twice), I had to do a double take with my ears on Eustace's line. I even did a rewind to check and see if what I heard was indeed what I think I heard. Indeed it was. I must say, I was pretty upset by it. I didn't think it to be something to turn up in a Narnia film. I understand the argument of it perhaps tying into Eustace's sinful background, but I highly doubt the screenwriters, if the best they can come up with is "green mist", were really thinking about such dialogue usage in Eustace's character. It seems to me to just be how they would speak, so they didn't think twice about it. Abd maybe, with more viewings (if I could bear it), it would cease to bother me.... but maybe that's also part of the problem in this world, growing too accustomed to certain things that it transcends into the norm.
Image
Sig by Dernhelm_of_Rohan
NWsis to eves_daughter & ForeverFan
User avatar
Lion's Emblem
NarniaWeb Fanatic
 
Posts: 4667
Joined: Apr 27, 2007
Location: Narnia

PreviousNext

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest