Christian Themes in the Dawn Treader

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Christian Themes in the Dawn Treader

Postby Narnia_Fan12 » Sep 04, 2009 4:11 pm

I came to thinking earlier, what should be the most important Christian themes that they should be sure to keep within the movie???
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Re: Christian Themes in the Dawn Treader

Postby carissa » Sep 04, 2009 5:28 pm

I think some important themes for VDT are redemption and the struggle of sanctification.

Redemption mostly because this is Eustace's first journey to Narnia and he learns about the restorative power of Aslan. And sanctification because each of the main characters seem to struggle with sin and temptation.

(On a side note: Hurray for the first topic on the Narnia and Christianity forum on the new site! :) )
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Re: Christian Themes in the Dawn Treader

Postby Earel Alquawen » Sep 04, 2009 6:42 pm

I've always been attached to the last scene in the book. The one where Aslan changes from lamb into lion and then goes on to tell Edmund and Lucy that the must learn to know him in our world. I doubt it will make it into the movie as it is a rather blatant Christian theme. But one can always dream. :)

Carissa, I'm curious what in the book made you think of sanctification?
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Re: Christian Themes in the Dawn Treader

Postby Farsight1 » Sep 04, 2009 7:40 pm

Besides Eustace I think she meant:

- Caspian: selfishness, leaving crew and country behing to pursue personal adventures/interests (scene at the End of the World), greed, avarice (Deathwater island)
- Edmund: greed, avarice (Deathwater island), patience in dealing with Eustace
- Lucy: obsession over beauty, jealousy, eavesdropping
- Reepicheep: thirst for adventure sometimes hinders personal or groups' security
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Re: Christian Themes in the Dawn Treader

Postby 220chrisTian » Sep 04, 2009 10:30 pm

What's the secret to sanctification? Trusting in, and relying on, Aslan -- in every situation. Caspian, Eustace, Edmund, Lucy, even Reepicheep ... they all must learn to trust in Aslan while overcoming temptation. But there's another secret to sanctification, and that is sacrifice. I see it as a major element of VDT, maybe even the entire series. It's the most obvious in LWW because of the Stone Table, but the theme is still there in VDT! :)
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Re: Christian Themes in the Dawn Treader

Postby Dernhelm_of_Rohan » Sep 05, 2009 7:36 am

I think that the most significant Christian theme in VDT is the scene in the garden on Dragon Island, where Aslan cures Eustace of his dragon disease. I hope that makes it into the movie, because it has the whole Christian theme in it: a hopelessly binding sin that we can't get off ourselves, a Lion who can do it for us, if we let Him, and a set of new clothes.
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Re: Christian Themes in the Dawn Treader

Postby Dr Elwin Ransom » Sep 05, 2009 8:02 am

(First -- my own congratulations for the first new discussion in New N&C!)

Regarding sanctification: I always liked the phrasing Lewis used when describing the change in Eustace. He not only clarified that of course he wasn't perfect, but he specifically rebutted the idea that someone like Eustace could just change all at once. However, it was a very strong reference to the Christian doctrine of sanctification when Lewis said that he began to be a different person. :D
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Re: Christian Themes in the Dawn Treader

Postby NothinButNarnia » Sep 05, 2009 10:27 am

I really hope they keep the evident change in Eustace in the movie, and don't cut Aslan out of it at all. Aslan is the ONLY reason Eustace changed. I love the metaphor Lewis used about the dragon's skin, about how it hurts more than anything, but at the same time feels so reviving and amazing. That just touched me so much when I read it.
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Re: Christian Themes in the Dawn Treader

Postby narnian1 » Sep 05, 2009 2:31 pm

Quite a few actually I feel need to be in:

1. Eustace the Dragon,
of course this will be in the movie. The part I am most referring to is when Aslan "de-dragonizes" him. Why? because he first tries to do it himself but fails. In LWW we have Aslan dying for the traitor/sinner, Edmund. But now we have him restoring and renewing, (yes that's implied for Edmund but now we get to see it).

2. Reepicheep,
His story needs to be fleshed out entirely. He lives his life as best he can, always longing in his heart for what is eternal, Aslan's Country, rather than the glory he has as a knight of Narnia. He even defends Eustace at one point in the dragon island, unless I am mistaken of the chapter. Eustace is lost, and Drinian I think, says he hopes they lose him entirely. At which point Reepicheep says that he never heard him speak a more ill word, being that despite Eustace's shortcomings- he is part of the crew and must not be left out under any circumstances.
And of course his tale finishes wonderfully as he receives what he has long desired. To be with Aslan in his country.

3. Lion/Lamb,
This whole sequence must be kept intact as it is in the book, if any changes were made they must be to enhance on what Lewis was saying. (Not changing it, but enhancing- can't stress that enough).

There's more things of course as each island has a specific lesson to learn but I will cut it down to those three. I might be back later to post other things. sorry for the long post and I hope I didn't confuse anyone, I hope it's clear. :)
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Re: Christian Themes in the Dawn Treader

Postby Hermitess of Narnia » Sep 05, 2009 2:52 pm

"Spying on people by magic is the same as spying on them any other way."
Lucy doesn't stop to think about what would be wrong when she is confronted with another way to do things. This can also apply to technology being used to kill preborn babies or the like.

"Doubt not, Reepicheep, to find all you seek, there is the other east."
Lewis concluded in his lifetime that he was longing for another world because he had actually been made for another world. Reepicheep has a longing for Aslan's Country because he was made for it.

"'Come and have breakfast,' said the lamb."
I find it interesting that the next time Lucy sees Aslan after he rescues them from the dark island he is offering them breakfast! It reminds me of Jesus calming the storm and after that eating fish with the disciples.

"You were only a [donkey], but I was a traitor."
This is important because it shows that Edmund has forgiven him and shows that Eustace should not go on condeming himself for sins that have already been forgiven by Aslan. It also shows that Edmund doesn't have a prideful attitude.

The fact that Narnia does not allow slavery should be in the movie too.
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Re: Christian Themes in the Dawn Treader

Postby aslansothername » Sep 05, 2009 4:42 pm

For me the thing that made the most impact when I first read Voyage of the Dawn Treader was at the end when Aslan tells Lucy and Edmond that they will not me coming back to Narnia. Here is the quoted text that I love so much, and will die if it doesn't make it into the movie
""It isn't Narnia, you know," sobbed Lucy. "It's you. We shan't meet you there. And how can we live, never meeting you?" "But you shall meet me, dear one" said Aslan. "Are--are you there too Sir?" said Edmund. (this is the part) "I am," said Aslan. "But there I have another name. you must learn to know me by that name. This was the very reason why you were brought to Narnia, that by knowing me here for a little, you may know me better there." This is the one of the clearest pictures in all of the books that shows that Aslan is some what of a representation of Christ. So that is what I think should most definitely stay in the movie!.
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Re: Christian Themes in the Dawn Treader

Postby narnian1 » Sep 05, 2009 7:24 pm

Hermitess of Narnia wrote:
"You were only a [donkey], but I was a traitor."
This is important because it shows that Edmund has forgiven him and shows that Eustace should not go on condeming himself for sins that have already been forgiven by Aslan. It also shows that Edmund doesn't have a prideful attitude.

The fact that Narnia does not allow slavery should be in the movie too.



Oh yes! Edmund needs to say that in the movie,
it is very important for his character and the bond that will come later with Eustace, as they begin to be on much better terms with each other, being friends of Narnia and all.

and the anti-slave thing,
I can't see them NOT putting that into the movie as it's central to the first island. Corrupt people trying to justify their ways. It just CAN'T not be in the movie.
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Re: Christian Themes in the Dawn Treader

Postby Narnia_Fan12 » Sep 06, 2009 6:52 am

3. Lion/Lamb,
This whole sequence must be kept intact as it is in the book, if any changes were made they must be to enhance on what Lewis was saying. (Not changing it, but enchancing- can't stress that enough).


I'd call that Christian reference Numero Uno. They cannot, I repeat, NOT cut that scene out of the movie. But, by leaving it in--- that oculd cause worse problems then having it out. Who knows, they could have the lamb a part of a flock with a shepard in it... Making it meaningless. Still, that's all plain paranoia. I'm confident that scene will be there.

In LWW we have Aslan dying for the traitor/sinner, Edmund. But now we have him restoring and renewing, (yes that's implied for Edmund but now we get to see it).


I wholeheartedly agree with you. The dragon scene is yet another very important theme of the book-- and, as others have stated, the Christian meaning behind it is key to the movie adaption to be truly successful.
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Re: Christian Themes in the Dawn Treader

Postby NarniaWally » Sep 06, 2009 1:08 pm

I would like to thank everyone for your responses to this Subject. It has blessed me soooo much. C.S.Lewis had such a heart for Jesus and children that he really wanted to bring an impact to them (children) through his books for generations to come. Just think of it, children around the world are experiencing "the word that does not return void". C.S. knew how to delicately weave Christianity and a great story together to get the attention of children and adults alike. He was a wonderful story teller and a great leader. Again, it is soooo refreshing to know that there ones ones out in "FORUMLAND" who are like minded as we serve a great God. I will pray for each one and let's be encouraged to continue on to keep the faith and pray for the ones that will continue to read these books and see the movies....
Remember/// He longs to be with us more than we long to be with Him !!!..Wally
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Re: Christian Themes in the Dawn Treader

Postby Follower of Aslan » Sep 06, 2009 2:00 pm

Farsight1 wrote:- Caspian: selfishness, leaving crew and country behing to pursue personal adventures/interests (scene at the End of the World), greed, avarice (Deathwater island)


I really hope this gets into the movie. This involves Edmund too, on Deathwater Island, so there might at least be a bit of fighting/arguements between those two characters. I find it odd/ironic that they had Peter and Caspian dissagreeing in the movie PC, but really it happens in VDT as a book between Caspian and Ed. As long as it does not become a major theme in the movie, aka: distracting other themes, I would love to see this lesson take place in the movie exactly as it does in the book.
Also, Caspian having a personal struggle to leave Narnia behind in search of Our World would be a wonderful aspect of the movie if the makers can play it right (making it work out and not seem out of place with the rest of the events). In PC Caspian learns to become a king and in VDT book he must learn to step down (just like they tried to do with Peter in LWW and PC movies).

These would be wonderful moral stories and also Christian themes I would love to see in the movie. :) I hope the makers can embrace this...
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Re: Christian Themes in the Dawn Treader

Postby eustacegirl » Sep 06, 2009 6:42 pm

EVen though Lewis himself did not believe baptism was needed for salvation, EUstace's baptism was a good symbol of what baptism dose for us. When we are baptised in the name of Jesus, then we are added ot the Kingdom of God and our sisn are washed away. WHen Aslan took the scales off EUstace and put him in the water his scales and nakedness was washed away. his sin was washed away. in Mark 16:16 Jesus said that anyone who believes and is baptised will be saved whoever does not believe will be condemned." In Acts 2:38, Peter tells the crowd to repent and be baptised for the forgiveness of sins so that they may recieve the gift of the HOly Spirit. IN order to be saved we need to believe, repent, be baptized and remain steadfast in our wlak with CHrist. EUstace repented and was baptised so he was restored and saved. when we are baptised, with a repantant and beliving heart we are added to the Kingdom of God.
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