The White Witch Issue

C. S. Lewis, his worlds, and his faith.

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Re: The White Witch Issue

Postby Liberty Hoffman » Oct 02, 2010 9:50 am

DiGoRyKiRkE: wow! that's a very good point! :D and it is SO true.
if Edmund were a real person, it would be like when someone gives their life to Jesus, they are n a new creation. but that doesn't mean that they can't be tempted. they will still be prone to weaknesses and so with Edmund, he still has that past of WW. so that's his temptation.
I think it makes sense to bring back WW for the same reason that DiGoRyKiRkE pointed out! :)
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Re: The White Witch Issue

Postby Lady Haleth » Oct 02, 2010 4:33 pm

It makes theological sense, but not book sense. And I would say book sense is what matters. For me, what always made the Dark Island so scary is the fact that Lewis doesn't describe what they're afraid of in great detail. Its all left up to your imagination. Its so vague and dark and shadowy, there's something there but you don't know what it is, it appeals to all your own nightmares--not necessarily the type you have after traumatic experiences, but the kind that everyone has. Making it so vague and shadowy works better, I think. Edmund may very well have been thinking about the Witch. We don't know because we're seeing it from Lucy's point of view. However, I don't think this is a good reason for putting the Witch in randomly for maybe 30 seconds and then having her blow away again. I'd rather more be left up to the imagination--and play on the fear of the dark and unknown, rather than on a danger we already saw.
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Re: The White Witch Issue

Postby Illeana » Oct 13, 2010 2:23 am

I was just wondering.. a few people have said that the WW was definitely not in PC and there was no definite allusion to 'witches never die..' I just looked in my copy of PC, and it said 'learned Master Doctor, who ever heard of a witch that really died? You can always get them back.' Then the hag and werewolf 'prepare the blue fire' to call her up again. In my view, Hollywood only took it a few minutes further - to the point of here being called up.. also, she's referred to as 'The White Lady' by the hag. It's like Satan - underneath, spreading roots of evil, waiting to be called up. I'm not sure if I agree with her being in VOTDT, but I agree with a few people who have said this - The Dark Isle is the Isle of Nightmares. Edmund's nightmare was the WW coming and tempting him again... and possibly him succumbing. So it sort of does make sense for her to be there. Sorry if I offended anyone... totally unintentional. :( ;)
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Re: The White Witch Issue

Postby aragorn2 » Oct 13, 2010 5:00 am

I have no problem with the WW appearing as a temptation or nightmare on the DI either that would make sense with the book. As long as she is not running the DI just a nightmare from it.
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Re: The White Witch Issue

Postby Valiant » Oct 17, 2010 3:11 pm

It makes theological sense, but not book sense. And I would say book sense is what matters. For me, what always made the Dark Island so scary is the fact that Lewis doesn't describe what they're afraid of in great detail. Its all left up to your imagination.


I have to agree with these points. As well I don't mind a nightmare of the WW and edmund feeling old guilt again, but I don't want him tempted. Yes we are continually tempted but the WW is dead! Edmund could be tempted by other things...like the gold at Deathwater.
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Re: The White Witch Issue

Postby Lady Haleth » Oct 18, 2010 6:20 am

^True! Like in the book where he and Caspian are about to start fighting over it until Aslan stops them.
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Re: The White Witch Issue

Postby Valiant » Oct 18, 2010 4:17 pm

Yes I think its fine to have Edmund tempted again. I mean even Lewis wrote about it. However it doesn't have to be the same thing in the same form all the time does it? Edmund could still struggle with the desire for power and greed at Deathwater.

I think film maker will have a problem giving Edmund any flaws because he was so perfect in PC. I mean I loved him, but I wish they gave him his witty remarks and everything. I hope it doesn't look odd that he goes from brat to perfect to unperfect. He isn't supposed to be perfect in PC of VDT but it seems there will be some inconsistency in the movies. I hope I'm wrong. :p
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Re: The White Witch Issue

Postby StarAsterisk » Dec 16, 2010 9:46 am

I think they keep putting the White Witch in places she doesn't belong because they want to materialize the element of evil. An enemy to fight against. I doubt they are trying to make a statement with it- just a causality of adaption for the big screen.
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Re: The White Witch Issue

Postby aragorn2 » Dec 16, 2010 12:32 pm

I disagree that it is a problem, they made it very clear that she was just a nightmare haunting Ed. The sea serpent was the materialized evil they had to fight.
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Re: The White Witch Issue

Postby Warrior 4 Jesus » Dec 17, 2010 7:24 pm

Anyone think the garden where Eustace was undragoned, was the same place where Diggory went to get the apple and was met by Jadis in MN?
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Re: The White Witch Issue

Postby aragorn2 » Dec 18, 2010 11:51 am

Warrior 4 Jesus, What would make you think that?
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Re: The White Witch Issue

Postby Warrior 4 Jesus » Dec 19, 2010 5:35 am

The way the garden was described, it's location. Check the details, they're there.
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Re: The White Witch Issue

Postby aragorn2 » Dec 19, 2010 9:22 am

I always thought that the garden was on Dragon Island, but I doubt Lewis intended them to be the same.
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Re: The White Witch Issue

Postby Lilygloves » Dec 19, 2010 10:55 pm

I completely relate to this forum. Tilda Swinton keeps appearing in movies! TVotDT never specifically states that Edmund's dreams have to do with the White Witch, although it sort of makes sense that it would. I always figured the dark island was more of a torture than a temptation. To be honest, who would want their dreams to come to life? I doubt the "it that settled on the mast" would be very tempting to Caspian. If Edmund had a dream about the White Witch, it would most likely be a memory or such, as opposed to her tempting him again. He's past that. As for PC, she wasn't supposed to be there at all. I suppose the hag and werewolf almost succeeding in bringing her to life added action. I fear Tilda Swinton will play the Emerald Witch, which at first I thought was a good time for her to come back into the movies for once. But I read on another forum an excellent point: The White Witch is a temptress, but the Emerald Witch is an enchantress. The White Witch got people to do what she wanted by charisma, where the Emerald Witch had to use magic. Although it would make sense for Her to play the Emerald Witch since they may be "of the same crew."
To be frank, I'm so over the White Witch.
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Re: The White Witch Issue

Postby narnianelv » Dec 28, 2010 10:22 pm

Tirian541 wrote:It might just be me but I thought that The Witch appeared in all the books.
Here's what I thought:
In MN, Jadis is herself.
In LWW, as the White Witch.
In PC, the hag that was a friend of Nikabrik was the witch.
In VDT, on the table at Ramandu's Island lays the knife that the Witch used to "kill" Aslan.
In SC, as the Lady of the Green Kirtle.
In HHB, maybe as fear itself, Shasta is very fearfull till he meets Aslan.
In LB, as Tash. :)



I don't think the WW is the Lady of the Green Kirtle. First off, it specifically states in LWW that the witch dies, and says the same thing again in PC. I know there's that whole deal about bringing her back to life, but the point is they never actually do bring her back to life in PC nor is it ever hinted at in the rest of the books either. Another point which refutes this is that almost immediately after Nikabrik\his companions offer to bring the WW back to life one of the "good guy" characters (sorry, can't remember which) makes the statement that she would come back as "an accursed ghost", and the LOTGK is not a ghost. Also, in SC Glimfeather makes the statement "Long long ago...*talks about the reign of the WW*...And we think this may be some of the same crew". He doesn't say they think she's the same person, he says that they're of a similar "crew". As in they're both witches, and evil, and probably both from the north. But just becuase they share similar qualities doesn't make them the same person. Lastly, I actually read somewhere where Lewis himself stated that they were not the same and were different entities but unfortunately I don't have the link to the article. Personally I think that the WW and the LOTGK are both demon type characters and that Tash really represents the devil but that's just my personal opinion.
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Re: The White Witch Issue

Postby aragorn2 » Dec 29, 2010 9:40 am

Tirian541 wrote:It might just be me but I thought that The Witch appeared in all the books.
Here's what I thought:
In PC, the hag that was a friend of Nikabrik was the witch.
In SC, as the Lady of the Green Kirtle.
In LB, as Tash. :)


The Hag isn't the WW because she is trying to bring the witch back. The LOTGK isn't anything like the WW and besides she is dead. Tash is the demon-god of the Calorman's and has nothing at all to do with the WW.
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