The Fascinating World of Personality Types

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Re: The Fascinating World of Personality Types

Postby Ithilwen » Mar 22, 2014 9:36 pm

The Rose-Tree Dryad wrote:Jill's rather tough to type because she's such a damaged girl at the beginning of The Silver Chair, and that affects her behavior. She is bitter. She also tends to be quite emotional, though, as well—she's crying at the beginning of the book, she broke down in a sobbing fit after Eustace fell off the cliff, and she's often struggling not to "blub" in other difficult times. Not exactly a cool-minded executor of what needs to get done.

That could be. The same was true in the case of Zuko from Avatar:TLA, who could act very T-ish at times, when really he was just a very hurt INFP.

I have to point out though that, just because T's are executors, that doesn't mean they never cry or that they are, on average, cool-minded. Though not all of them own to it, they're all vulnerable humans like everyone else. Some of the most emotional, prone-to-crying people I know are T's. It is quite possible - maybe even probable - that Jill is an F. But I wouldn't rule out the T possibility just because she cries.


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Re: The Fascinating World of Personality Types

Postby The Rose-Tree Dryad » Mar 23, 2014 12:19 am

Ithilwen wrote:That could be. The same was true in the case of Zuko from Avatar:TLA, who could act very T-ish at times, when really he was just a very hurt INFP.


Right. That's mainly why Jill is so extremely difficult to type—whatever she's been through in life that has left her with so little faith and trust in anything or anyone, it's definitely affected her personality and left her quite prickly, guarded and cold. In fact, she may even be "shadow typing" in the early parts of The Silver Chair, because she feels so threatened by everything all the time. It's very interesting to watch her soften up as her character progresses, but it sure makes her hard to type!

Ithilwen wrote:I have to point out though that, just because T's are executors, that doesn't mean they never cry or that they are, on average, cool-minded. Though not all of them own to it, they're all vulnerable humans like everyone else. Some of the most emotional, prone-to-crying people I know are T's. It is quite possible - maybe even probable - that Jill is an F. But I wouldn't rule out the T possibility just because she cries.


Oh, definitely! Ts can be very emotional as well, and Feelers definitely don't have the market cornered on crying. I think we generally tend to associate frequent outpouring of emotion with Feeling, though, especially when it principally affects choices and behavior.

A couple other things about Jill that make me lean towards F rather than T would be how when they've just blindly fallen down a rockslide and have encountered the Gnomes of Despair, one of the first things Jill thinks of is that she felt like she would like to cheer them up. Given the situation and what kind of terrible danger the three questers were in, trying to cheer up a potentially hostile army of spear-wielding gnomes would be the last thing on many people's minds. And then, in The Last Battle, we see how gentle and kind she is to Puzzle—she's really the only one who sticks up for him and treats him sympathetically.

That said, she's extremely challenging to type with any kind of certainty and I'm really not sure. I rather think that even Jill Pole herself would admit that she's always been a piece of work; I think that's why she's so easy for people (read: me) to identify with. ;)) Anyway, ISFJ-with-a-lot-of-issues is just my hunch.
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Re: The Fascinating World of Personality Types

Postby MoonlightDancer » Mar 25, 2014 5:37 pm

I got ENFJ when I took the test last but with a very low score on J. I always get an E when I take the test but I think I'm an introvert living an extroverts life.... /:) I turn to dark thoughts and become restless and depressed if I have to spend one day or afternoon alone, but on the other hand when I'm out all the time doing things and hanging out with people I become mentally exhausted and just want to get away. So I don't know.
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Re: The Fascinating World of Personality Types

Postby The Rose-Tree Dryad » Mar 25, 2014 10:31 pm

MoonlightDancer wrote:I got ENFJ when I took the test last but with a very low score on J. I always get an E when I take the test but I think I'm an introvert living an extroverts life.... /:) I turn to dark thoughts and become restless and depressed if I have to spend one day or afternoon alone, but on the other hand when I'm out all the time doing things and hanging out with people I become mentally exhausted and just want to get away. So I don't know.


I would have trouble with scoring very low on either P or J, too—I had no idea if I was an INFJ or an INFP for quite a while. This is a good, basic description of the difference between Judging and Perceiving, so that might be helpful to you in deciding what side of the fence you're on. That's a very useful site in general for information on MBTI.

I'm not really sure whether you're an extrovert or an introvert, either, based on what you describe... I can see why you're confused! If you're overworked right now, that could explain why social interaction is so tiring for you. It might be a good idea just to think back over the past ten years or so and see whether you, on average, tended to seek company or retreat into solitude when you were feeling drained.

Oh, and here is the info page on extraversion vs introversion, just in case that might help, too. Also, reading through some of the personality type descriptions might be illuminating, since you may find that one of them paints a much more accurate picture of you than the others do.

Accurately typing yourself can be a long and winding road—and I'm afraid I speak from experience there ;))—but it's still a very worthwhile journey to undertake, I think. :)
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Re: The Fascinating World of Personality Types

Postby IloveFauns » Mar 27, 2014 8:08 am

I am an introvert for sure. I try to avoid soical situation. Though it is weird I either like a very small group of friends around(people who I can be more open with) or a very large crowd to get lost in(such as at a festival). I avoid moderate sizes groups that contain people I half know or don't like.

so in conclusion I am comfortable with people I know very well or people I don't know really at all(well usually depends on first impressions and whether I have much of a chance of meeting this person in the future again).

I have always being somewhat a 40% P and 60% J. I have a slight preference of getting things done and decided I guess. Sometimes howevr I like to gather more information.
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Re: The Fascinating World of Personality Types

Postby Anhun » Apr 14, 2014 2:13 pm

The Rose-Tree Dryad wrote: that might be helpful to you in deciding what side of the fence you're on.


Why do you have to be on one side of the fence? :-\ It is quite possible for a person to have a blended personality, meaning that your personality could be a fusion of different types. This is often the case with people who score in the 40-60% range. Personally, I'm an INT/FP/J. I tend to balance emotional and pragmatic needs. And I usually have a thought-out plan, but I seldom stick to it.

Now on to more important topics: Harry Potter. There's another system, related to Myers-Briggs, called Keirsey Temperament Types. Basically, the sixteen MB personalities are sorted into 4 temperaments.

One theory is that the 4 houses of Hogwarts are based on the four temperaments:
http://www.keirsey.com/sorthat.aspx

Ravenclaw - NT - Rational Temperament
Gryffindor - NF - Idealist Temperament
Slytherin - SP - Artisan Temperament
Hufflepuff - SJ - Guardian Temperament

If Hermione was an INT/FJ, that would explain why the sorting hat had a hard time deciding whether to put her in Ravenclaw or Gryffindor, because she would be both rational and idealist.

If Harry was an EN/SFP, then he would be both an idealist and an artisan, so the sorting had could have placed him in Gryffindor or Slytherin.

One might ask why it would be important to sort the personalities into temperaments? Well, the theory is that temperament is determined before birth, whereas your specific personality type within your temperament isn't nailed down till much later, if ever. Major life events have been known to change people's personalities, but not temperaments.
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Re: The Fascinating World of Personality Types

Postby The Rose-Tree Dryad » Apr 14, 2014 4:36 pm

Anhun wrote:Why do you have to be on one side of the fence? :-\ It is quite possible for a person to have a blended personality, meaning that your personality could be a fusion of different types. This is often the case with people who score in the 40-60% range. Personally, I'm an INT/FP/J. I tend to balance emotional and pragmatic needs. And I usually have a thought-out plan, but I seldom stick to it.


Ah, I probably could've worded that better. Lemme see if I can elaborate. :)

Every person is a blend, to some degree, unless someone scores 100% on each function, which would be pretty crazy. ;)) Usually, though, there's going to be four functions that have primacy in regards to how the individual brain works. Sometimes there's going to be a very pronounced preference for one function or another, and in others, it's going to be a lot more subtle, but there's still a preference. Basically, if you have a tendency to lean towards one side of the fence, that's probably the side you're going to fall on. I kind of like to think of it as your "default settings" or "factory settings"—basically, your brain's preferred method of operation when it's in its natural, normal state.

Of course, there are instances of people who are perfectly balanced in between two functions, but I think they're supposed to be pretty rare. Most likely just about everyone tips the scale in one way or another, but it can be so subtle (and result in such ambiguous test results) that it makes it very hard for a person to know what their actual function is.

As far as I'm aware, being a Judger—on its own—doesn't mean that you follow through with your plans. It just means that you make plans and spend a lot of time thinking about goals and the future. Following through tends to be much more prevalent among SJ types.

Looking into how the different functions affect each other can be really helpful if it's a toss-up between a few types and you aren't actually a genuine X. This was how I was able to determine that I was an INFJ rather than an INFP, which was something that I was really confused about for quite a while because of getting very inconclusive test results.

The relationships between functions is known as the cognitive functions or the Eight Function-Attitudes. Every type has its own unique combination and order, and there's a rundown on these cognitive functions for each MBTI type on their individual wikipedia pages. Here's the cognitive functions for INFJ as an example. Even though INFP shares three functions with INFJ, if you look at its cognitive functions, you'll notice that every single one of them is different than the cognitive functions of INFJ. There's a huge ripple effect across the entire personality type when you change one function.

If you find the descriptions on wikipedia too vague and you're uncertain about exactly what each cognitive function means, the ol' Google search can be helpful for that. Or posting here, because I enjoy discussing this stuff. ;))

Anyway, you may already know about all of that stuff and still disagree with my conclusions, but I'm just posting it for the benefit of anyone who ends up reading this post. :)

Anhun wrote:Now on to more important topics: Harry Potter. There's another system, related to Myers-Briggs, called Keirsey Temperament Types. Basically, the sixteen MB personalities are sorted into 4 temperaments.

One theory is that the 4 houses of Hogwarts are based on the four temperaments:
http://www.keirsey.com/sorthat.aspx

[...]

If Hermione was an INT/FJ, that would explain why the sorting hat had a hard time deciding whether to put her in Ravenclaw or Gryffindor, because she would be both rational and idealist.

If Harry was an EN/SFP, then he would be both an idealist and an artisan, so the sorting had could have placed him in Gryffindor or Slytherin.


That's a really neat take on it! We were discussing something a bit similar a while back in this thread regarding the Sorting Hat and cognitive functions, which was clever, but maybe not completely accurate. Your idea regarding Harry and Hermione and their Sorting Hat results is very compelling, though, especially considering what we know about them. I'm intrigued. :-?

However, I do score as Hufflepuff on the Pottermore quiz, and I don't really see myself as being in the SJ camp at all... if I wasn't an NF, I'm pretty sure I'd be an NT, as Feeling is my "lowest" function at 38%. Hmm.

Anhun wrote:One might ask why it would be important to sort the personalities into temperaments? Well, the theory is that temperament is determined before birth, whereas your specific personality type within your temperament isn't nailed down till much later, if ever. Major life events have been known to change people's personalities, but not temperaments.


I have to say, I have absolutely no idea when personality types are definitively formed. Thinking back, I feel like I've been an INFJ for a long, long time, but I don't know if I was born an INFJ. Where personality type comes from and when it appears is definitely up for debate.

I'm not sure if major life events can actually change a person's personality type, though. There's an entirely different set of "shadow functions" for each type that can surface when an individual is under stress. It can seem like someone's personality has changed, but in reality, they're just under stress and it's affecting the way their brain is working. (For those who are interested in learning more, you can read about shadow functions underneath the cognitive functions on each personality type wikipedia page.) The human brain is a very mysterious place, though, so that's certainly up for debate as well.

Wow, this post ended up long. Sorry, I'm known to ramble. ;))
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Re: The Fascinating World of Personality Types

Postby Ithilwen » Apr 15, 2014 2:06 am

Anhun wrote:Why do you have to be on one side of the fence? :-\ It is quite possible for a person to have a blended personality, meaning that your personality could be a fusion of different types. This is often the case with people who score in the 40-60% range. Personally, I'm an INT/FP/J. I tend to balance emotional and pragmatic needs. And I usually have a thought-out plan, but I seldom stick to it.

Every person on earth has at least some E, I, S, N, T, F, P, and J in them. The question is what you have more of than another, and what you most often tend to fall back on. The reason people should find out what side of the fence they're on is because, as Rose said, just one difference in letter will affect all the other letters. Even if someone has a very strong F side and a very strong T side - so much that they're almost equal - there is one they have more of than another, and whichever one that is is affecting their other functions as well. If you are missing one piece of the puzzle, in some ways you're missing the whole puzzle.

Also, just because someone learns to acquire T behavior, or J behavior, or F behavior, or what have you, that does not mean they themselves are a T, a J, or an F. We all learn to acquire certain functions in order to adapt to our surroundings, but this is quite different than our natural or default settings. Who we learn to be, or who we make ourselves into, is much different than our inherent natures. For example, among my family members, I'm often called "the cold voice of reason and rational thought", which is often stereotyped as a T characteristic. But I actually have a very high F score, and don't register on the T scale much at all. I simply learned to adapt T behavior due to my surroundings. This means I can live as a T, but I myself am not a T. I'm an F all the way.

Also, for the record, I'm almost 100% J, and I almost never stick to the plans I make. It's the fact that I make the plans in the first place that makes me a J.


One theory is that the 4 houses of Hogwarts are based on the four temperaments:
http://www.keirsey.com/sorthat.aspx

Ravenclaw - NT - Rational Temperament
Gryffindor - NF - Idealist Temperament
Slytherin - SP - Artisan Temperament
Hufflepuff - SJ - Guardian Temperament

If Hermione was an INT/FJ, that would explain why the sorting hat had a hard time deciding whether to put her in Ravenclaw or Gryffindor, because she would be both rational and idealist.

If Harry was an EN/SFP, then he would be both an idealist and an artisan, so the sorting had could have placed him in Gryffindor or Slytherin.

This is interesting, but it fails as a system pretty quickly. Every Slytherin I know in real life has been an SJ. McGonagall was an SJ, yet she was in Gryffindor. My two NF friends are both Hufflepuffs. I've never met a Hufflepuff who was an SJ. Harry Potter himself was most likely an STP -- he doesn't show signs of being an NF at all. Fred and George were about as ESFP-ish as you can get, yet they were Gryffindors. Basically, your house is determined by qualities unrelated to your personality type/temperament.

One might ask why it would be important to sort the personalities into temperaments? Well, the theory is that temperament is determined before birth, whereas your specific personality type within your temperament isn't nailed down till much later, if ever. Major life events have been known to change people's personalities, but not temperaments.

I've never known of a single letter being able to change. Like I said, we can learn new behaviors and adapt to new things, but that doesn't change our default setting.

It occurs to me that the words "personalities" and "temperaments", though the most often used in reference to the four groups and 16 types, are both basically misnomers. They tend to give people the wrong idea of what these types actually entail or refer to. If you get two INFJs together - or any two people of the same type - they are both going to have different personalities and temperaments. These 16 types are more like default settings/inherent natures than anything else. The term "personality type" almost always gives people the wrong impression, because things like hobbies and personal tastes are often tied up with the idea of "personality"; and the 16 types don't really touch on that. As for the word "temperament", it is sometimes used to mean "default setting/inherent nature", in which case it's on the mark. But the word "temperament" is also often used to refer to the types of moods one is prone to, whether one is active or passive in situations, etc., and that sort of thing is not necessarily related to type (allowing for there to be passive ISTJs and active ISTJs, moody ENFPs and cheerful ENFPs, etc.). So it all depends on one's use of the word "temperament". If one means the former definition - the default setting of a person - it is an accurate term, not just for the four groups, but for the sixteen types themselves

There is great value in grouping the 16 types into four major groups, but it isn't because of any differences between a personality vs. a temperament. The advantage in grouping the 16 types into four groups is that the types within those four groups are more similar to each other than they are to types in the other groups. They tend to have similar interests and world views. SJs, for example, tend to be more traditional, conservative, and patriotic on average. So they're the Guardians. NFs tend to love books, philosophy, and value creativity. So they're the Dreamers. NTs tend to be super rational, pick things apart in their minds, find out how things work and how we can use our knowledge and discoveries. They're the Scientists. SPs tend to be active go-getters that value freedom and expression. They're the Artisans. Even though there are different types within these groups, they share their core values with one another, and are more likely to see the world through the same basic lens. So it is both accurate and helpful to group them together.


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Re: The Fascinating World of Personality Types

Postby The Rose-Tree Dryad » Jun 02, 2014 9:47 pm

Ran across this online and I thought it was neat/cute, so I figured I'd share it:

http://widdershinsacademy.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/mbti-animals.jpg

Yay, I got panda! :D Apparently that means I'm fascinating... annnd on the verge of extinction. :| :P
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Re: The Fascinating World of Personality Types

Postby Ithilwen » Jun 03, 2014 12:47 am

The Rose-Tree Dryad wrote:Ran across this online and I thought it was neat/cute, so I figured I'd share it:

http://widdershinsacademy.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/mbti-animals.jpg

Yay, I got panda! :D Apparently that means I'm fascinating... annnd on the verge of extinction. :| :P

Well, it looks like I'm a dog. :o3 (HAHA YES, I finally found a reason to use that emote! :)) )

I wonder, though, why the person who made that poster thinks the appropriate animal to represent the ESFJ is an elephant about to fall over.


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Re: The Fascinating World of Personality Types

Postby Reepicheep775 » Jun 03, 2014 10:59 am

Darn. I wanted to be an owl. Oh well. Tigers are also cool and I'm only one cognitive function away from being an owl.
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Re: The Fascinating World of Personality Types

Postby Arwenel » Jun 03, 2014 11:52 am

Could someone elaborate on the difference between J/P? I've been doing a lot of thinking on this and might have worked out the others (maybe), but i'm still unclear on that one.
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Re: The Fascinating World of Personality Types

Postby Ithilwen » Jun 03, 2014 1:44 pm

Arwenel wrote:Could someone elaborate on the difference between J/P? I've been doing a lot of thinking on this and might have worked out the others (maybe), but i'm still unclear on that one.

J/P basically has to do with planning/pantsing (whether you plan things out in detail, or just take things as they come) and what time frame you focus on most (whether you plan ahead and think about the future a lot, or live in the moment.)

Js are the planners. Ps live in the moment. Another difference is Js tend to be more responsible, but also worry more; while Ps tend to be more care-free and free spirited.


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Re: The Fascinating World of Personality Types

Postby IloveFauns » Jun 03, 2014 10:39 pm

I find myself somewhat in-between J and P. leaning towards J(maybe a 60-40 split). Especially with the current budget cuts that may go through in Australia, I have had to rethink my future. Hopefully my university freezes fees for students already enrolled such as myself. I know of other universities doing it. Otherwise I am going to have to pay some over the top amount for my last three semesters. I don't think my younger brother and sister will even bother going.

When planning an evening. I will be like "I will just take the bus and if not a taxi" and some of my friends panic because, they like to know exactly what we are doing, how are we are going to get there and back.
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Re: The Fascinating World of Personality Types

Postby The Rose-Tree Dryad » Jun 03, 2014 10:54 pm

In addition to what Ithie wrote...

Arwenel wrote:Could someone elaborate on the difference between J/P? I've been doing a lot of thinking on this and might have worked out the others (maybe), but i'm still unclear on that one.


I'd really recommend looking into the cognitive functions of the two types you're torn between, especially if you're stuck on Judging and Perceiving. When you change a J to a P, every cognitive function changes. The two types become completely different from one another; none of the same cognitive functions appear anywhere in the hierarchy of functions.

For instance, the cognitive functions for INFP are Fi, Ne, Si, and Te, whilst the cognitive functions for INFJ are Ni, Fe, Ti, and Se. INFP and INFJ look very similar at a glance and on paper, but in reality, they're quite different.

(Sorry if those abbreviations look like Greek to anyone reading this thread! This page is a decent introduction to cognitive functions.)

I was caught between INFJ and INFP for a long time because I'd waffle back and forth between the two when testing, and they both seemed quite a bit like me in the descriptions. Once I delved into the cognitive functions, though, it all became very clear and I was able to discern that I'm definitely an INFJ.

Which two types are you stuck between? I might be able to find some reading material about the cognitive functions of those particular types that could help you.
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Re: The Fascinating World of Personality Types

Postby Ithilwen » Jun 10, 2014 10:02 pm

Well, I recently learned I was mistyped. I believed I was an ENFJ for a pretty long time, but I am actually an INTP. :-o

What I find most surprising is the "P" aspect. When I read a description of what it means to be a J, I identify with all of it. When I read about what it means to be a P, I don't identify with any of it. Yet, the INTP description fits me quite well. :-?


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