This forum has been archived. Please visit the new forum at https://community.narniaweb.com/

Special Feature: Les Miserables!

The community lounge for non-Narnian discussions.

Moderators: stargazer, johobbit

Re: Special Feature: Les Miserables!

Postby Alyosha » Mar 04, 2013 10:55 pm

Hah, it WOULD be a thread about Les Mis that gets me to post for the first time in months (years?). :P (hiya, Narniaweb!)

Re. the movie finale:
Originally, the barricade was supposed to represent the success of the 1848 revolution, not be a "woohoo heaven=warfare and struggle!" sort of thing. Actually you can distantly see Marius and Cosette standing on the barricade if you look reeeeallly closely. I believe they changed it because it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense for people who aren't familiar with the history, and/or because it doesn't make much sense for people who are, either (Louis Napoleon declared himself emperor three years later, which wasn't exactly what the revolutionaries in Les Mis were fighting for!). So all that considered...I guess I see why it turned out the way it did, and the history nerd in me would rather have it represent heaven than 1848. :P (Not to mention that that would de-emphasise the spiritual aspect of the story.) I agree that it is a little odd and doesn't totally fit the lyrics, although I can't think of any more effective ways to stage it.

Wild Rose, your line about France's heaven being a place of endless revolutions made me laugh really hard. Oh, France. ;))


Stargazer, that video is one of my favourites! Never gets old.

Musical vs. book: The book--you get so much more backstory and depth, and I really enjoy all the historical context. Well, most of it :P The Friends of the ABC are one of my favourite parts and they get very little characterisation in the musical, and Musical!Eponine is a little bland IMO...Book!Eponine is dark and insane and fascinating. There are a couple things I like better in the musical than the book, though, like the way Javert, Valjean, and Thenardier's views of God are contrasted (Javert isn't really religious in the book), and Marius' PTSD/survivor's guilt.

Favourite characters: Andrea, your questions are just cruel. ;) All of the Amis, especially Combeferre (learning, cleverness, loyalty! Love his relationship with Enjolras, and how he takes down Marius in three words. Best ever). Valjean's redemption is heartbreaking and amazing. Gavroche is brilliant and I love how seriously Hugo takes him, he's not just this cute kid like in a lot of the movie adaptations! Grantaire fascinates me, he is so complex. I sympathise with him a whole lot, and I'm glad he found redemption, of a sort, in the end. Honourable mention for Feuilly and Montparnasse. It baffles me how Hugo makes so many relatively minor characters SO INTERESTING while some of the major ones don't have a whole lot of layers to them at all.

Movie thoughts: I've seen it three times now, and it's grown on me every time. There is SO MUCH to notice! Especially if you've read the book...they put an incredible amount of effort and thought into the most insignificant details. It had plenty of imperfections, which I will probably grow more annoyed with at some point, but right now I've just re-fallen in love with the story again and I don't even care. :P Also, I want to hug the person who decided that the Bishop should usher Valjean into heaven instead of Eponine. Perfection. This story, it never fails to amaze me. The tension of law vs. grace, the sacrificial love, the darkness and the hope and how God is so evident in every corner--almost, I think, in ways that Hugo and the creators of the musical never planned at all. Les Mis and Narnia are the two stories that have influenced me most, and the movie showed all of that brilliance in a whole new way, and I love it for that if nothing else.

Okay def. time to shut up now ;)
Image
signature by Starsy
User avatar
Alyosha
Moderator Emeritus
 
Posts: 4776
Joined: Mar 10, 2005
Location: Canada

Re: Special Feature: Les Miserables!

Postby johobbit » Mar 19, 2013 8:53 am

Wowow, Alyosha, so great to see you here again. :D And I really appreciated your post. I have only been a Les Mis fan for a few years (having only devoured the book for the first time maybe five years ago), so it's great to hear from those of you who have known and loved the story much longer.

I am about to head out to pick up two copies of the Deluxe Soundtrack from the film, which releases today—one for our family; the other for a friend's upcoming birthday. So eager to hear the abundance of musical pieces that the original soundtrack did not include.
:D
User avatar
johobbit
Moderator
 
Posts: 16090
Joined: Feb 06, 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada ... under the northern sky
Gender: Female

Re: Special Feature: Les Miserables!

Postby Alyosha » Mar 23, 2013 9:34 pm

(Jo! Hi!) Enjoy the soundtrack! I haven't gotten it yet, but I'm really glad they released it, because a recording that does not include Do You Hear the People Sing? is just fifty kinds of wrong.

"Only" five years? what are you talking about. ;) I am no expert, just unhealthily slightly obsessed (may or may not have gone to see it a fourth time the day before it left theatres. Ahem. ymwhisle)

Anyone got the DVD yet? I've seen bits and pieces of the bonus features, looks like some good stuff! I'm looking forward to introducing it to my younger siblings, now that I can discreetly fastforward one or two parts. ;))
Image
signature by Starsy
User avatar
Alyosha
Moderator Emeritus
 
Posts: 4776
Joined: Mar 10, 2005
Location: Canada

Re: Special Feature: Les Miserables!

Postby stargazer » Mar 28, 2013 8:59 pm

I bought the DVD and have watched favorite parts several times. I've also listened to just a little bit of Tom Hooper's commentary. Trivia abounds! Here are a few highlights I've picked up:

-The warship in the opening scene is CGI, but based on detailed pictures and computer rendering of the HMS Victory in Portsmouth, which is where the dry dock scene was filmed.
-The opening song was not recorded live during the filming, as the others were, due to all the other things going on: the men were in real sea water and waves, wind machines, etc.
-Colm Wilkinson, who plays the Bishop, played Jean Valjean in earlier productions of the musical.
-The final scene, with Marius, Cosette, and Valjean in the convent at the end of his life, was actually the first one filmed with these actors together.
-Eponine was originally included in this scene, as in the musical, but they decided to digitally remove her as she had no real connection to Valjean, and include the Bishop instead.
-He comments on the ending's 'heavenly barricade' as opposed to the 1848 version, very similar to what Aloysha says in her post above.


And in the spirit of the Peter Hollens "Misty Mountains" video, here is One Man Les Miserables by Nick Pitera.
But all night, Aslan and the Moon gazed upon each other with joyful and unblinking eyes.
User avatar
stargazer
Moderator
 
Posts: 22030
Joined: Mar 28, 2004
Location: by a campfire

Re: Special Feature: Les Miserables!

Postby waggawerewolf27 » Mar 28, 2013 10:52 pm

Wow! :-o :ymapplause: Is the DVD out already?

Princess Anna wrote:
waggawerewolf27 wrote: I agree with Wild Rose about the singing. I never saw either Russell Crowe or Hugh Jackman as singers, anyway. How did they end up getting the parts, I wonder? :-o

Smalls wrote: Actually, Hugh Jackman has a history of doing stage theater, including musicals. His involvement in a production of Oklahoma! is part of why we know him today (it helped people outside Australia to know and recognize him).

Yeah, in fact, it wouldn't surprise me at all, if Hugh Jackman had done theatre before entering film acting! (think he did, actually) As for Oklahoma! I saw him in that when PBS showed it once, years ago. I remember thinking "Wolverine can sing? SWEET!". =)) .....Not sure what Mr. Crowe's background is though. I'd have to do some digging....


It seems that Hugh Jackman got his acting training through a degree course with UNSW (University of New South Wales). Russell Crowe, who is a New Zealander by birth, and who part-owns the local Sydney Souths Rugby League club, also got some training in theatre/acting in Australia, which is where he lives. Any such training, especially in Hugh Jackman's case, would involve singing and dancing plus playing a musical instrument, as well as acting in theatre, television and movies, I believe.
User avatar
waggawerewolf27
NarniaWeb Zealot
 
Posts: 8781
Joined: Sep 25, 2009
Location: Oz
Gender: Female

Re: Special Feature: Les Miserables!

Postby wild rose » Mar 30, 2013 9:09 am

waggawerewolf27 wrote:I didn't think there was anything wrong with the barricade at the end. It was where so many of the characters died in the story, the movie etc. In the Last Battle, there was a stable outside which there was a battle, wasn't it?


Oh, I agree that the barricade should definitely be there, especially since they are singing about the barricade, but I suppose I sort of wish that they made it not so grey and more green, like a huge garden being beyond the barricade and the people climbing down into it, or something like that.

Alyosha wrote:Musical!Eponine is a little bland IMO...Book!Eponine is dark and insane and fascinating.


oh I do agree with you on this, to me it seemed Eponine wasn't really given much depth or character, she's just sort of portrayed as a girl whose hopelessly in love with Marius. I also didn't quite enjoy the way the movie portrayed her, she didn't look dirty enough. She's ragged to a certain degree in the movie, but she didn't strike me as being a beggar girl, who drinks and is so miserable, that at times she contemplates suicide, which is sort of the impression I got of her from the book. She's a person I compare with Fantine, but while in the movie, Fantine's misery and despair is portrayed really strongly, Eponine didn't come out as the book portrayed her (again, this is just my opinion)

I so agree about the Bishop coming to greet Valjean at the end of the movie, I loved that very much, Eponine really didn't make sense greeting him at all and I thought that was kinda strange in the musical, cause she isn't connected to him at all. I do greatly love the little things they put in the movie to make it more according to the book, like the escape to the convent, Gavroche taking the letter to Valjean instead of the musical version of Eponine taking it and other such things. Though I generally tend to lean more negative towards the movie that doesn't mean I don't like it. There are some parts that I really enjoyed (like the bargain scene, they played that out so well, it's one of my favorite scenes) I also LOVED the opening scene, it really gave a feel of misery and wet and cold and unpleasant, despair and hopelessness, it's my second favorite scene in the movie :)

I really want to reread the book again, I haven't read it in a while and I want to compare it with the movie and the musical with a fresh rereading, but I have got to finish 'Ben Hur' first :)
Image
The ends must never justify the means, the means must justify themselves--Ravi Zacharias
sig by Meltintalle
User avatar
wild rose
Moderator
The Guardian of Sundays
 
Posts: 3732
Joined: Oct 26, 2009
Location: over the hills and far away
Gender: Female

Re: Special Feature: Les Miserables!

Postby Aslanisthebest » Apr 28, 2013 9:37 pm

*wanders in*

Well, I can say that my knowledge of Les Mis has increased to a substantial degree!

I am currently reading the book (translation by Norman Denny) and am enjoying the read so far. I think I've said this elsewhere: there are some very quotable and beautiful lines and ideas, and others I do not like at all. But overall, the story is interesting so far. I have made it to around page 650 - so, a little more than halfway done. I might buy the book because it's a literary classics and certainly, it has many qualities that show it deserves that rank and reasons for which I would buy it, but I'm not sure if I'm willing to call it a favourite at this point.

The story is quite exciting. I have read all the digressions except for Waterloo and a bit of Colonel Pontmercy's background. I read the last chapter of Waterloo and the last paragraph of Marius' father's background in order to understand RE Thenardier and the rest of the story. The part where Thenardier and the other criminals trap Jean Valjean is especially interesting. This book;s plot turns are surprisingly good! (not that I expected it to be awful; I didn't have terribly high hopes for an exciting plot, as I thought much of the investment was in the deep characters)


shastastwin wrote:The trouble is, I enjoy the story and the detail Hugo puts in, but the writer and the reader in me both say "You shouldn't be taking this long to tell me this story!"
Yes, that sums up how I feel about those digressions! I enjoy how he sets up certain aspects by going into long descriptions, but at some point, it's like Hugo was trying to get as close as he can to the line of the reader's impatience. I question whether the book as a whole (rather than very eloquent sections of it) would qualify as a good exposition in essay evaluations. :P

I got around to seeing the 2012 film. . . Before I give my opinion, I should clarify that while I like musicals, I have not actually been to many and am not used to seeing a story carried out through that medium.
So. Ahem. No disrespect meant to those who liked the film!
My initial thought was that the book is so much richer than the musical, in terms of character development, plot, etc.
I could not connect with any of the characters - it's only because I had a little more than an inkling of their stories that I was able to follow along. Otherwise, the information provided seemed inadequate to me. I had a hard time feeling the emotions conveyed.
The singing was something I was not used to. I feel like Anne Hathaway perhaps carried singing as well as characterization well, compared to the others. Parts of the singing were a bit awkward for me.
I do prefer the flow of the book, though I understand why the same order of events could not happen in a film because of cinematic problems. However, it felt really fast-paced to me. It seemed like time was not given to explain the story.
The set was lovely. I understand they were going for a story-book feel, and they really got it.
Like stargazer mentioned, I liked the appearance of the candlesticks.
The Javert/Valjean scenes were very interested, but like I said, it was hard to connect the dots throughout the film.
The costumes/characters were a bit caricatured, the Thenardiers in particular. I do feel like the Thenardiers were Tim-Burton-ified just a tad too much. Like Wrose said, it seemed just a tad too grotesque. Also, there were a couple scenes that were just.... I have no idea why in the world they were included. They did nothing to add to the plot.
The Bishop scene was good but again, just a bit fast-paced. To me, I feel the singing added to the poor pacing (IMO) of the film. It seemed distracting to the point that the plot could not be focused on. I think the only part I was actively interested and not trying to grasp the story was during the ABC society gatherings and the barricade. But after that, when Jean Valjean died - I just couldn't feel the emotion of the scene. I'm not implying that it was awful or anything. Part of my impressions could be credited to the fact that I am not used to musicals and that this story has not been one that I am very familiar with.
Anne Hathaway's "I Dreamed a Dream" was very well done. "Do You Hear the People Sing?" was very rich and full - I think it moved me the most. (this coming from someone who has never in her life heard the song or other songs from this musical! :P )
Image
RL Sibling: CSLewisNarnia
User avatar
Aslanisthebest
Moderator Emeritus
 
Posts: 5623
Joined: May 18, 2008
Location: Here

Re: Special Feature: Les Miserables!

Postby aragorn2 » May 01, 2013 7:44 am

I finally got to see Les Miserables. I'm a HUGE fan of the musical and I was dying to see it. But to be honest I was a little disappointed :( .
The pacing really put me off. The film just flitted between songs with very little to connect them. And this was exasperated by them cutting out portions from over half the songs. I know they did it to shorten the run time, but the film felt extremely rushed a lot of the time.
And also the cinematography was very inconsistent. Some of it was amazing, while at other times it was just plain awful.

But it wasn't all bad. The cast was great. I even thought Russel Crowe did a good job. His voice did falter once or twice. But I think his deep voice was perfect for Javert and his acting was perfect.
And a lot of the songs are so great they couldn't ruin them if they tried.

In short I liked it and I hope it brings the musical more fans. But I think with a different director it could have been phenomenal.
User avatar
aragorn2
NarniaWeb Junkie
 
Posts: 770
Joined: Sep 25, 2010
Location: Virginia, USA
Gender: Male

Re: Special Feature: Les Miserables!

Postby AslansChild » May 06, 2013 6:02 pm

I know I'm now in Les Mis territory...but I found this most amusing; I haven't seen the film, but based on the story and the musical, it's very true, and extremely funny. Seriously...
"...when my heart is overwhwlemed, lead me to the Rock that is higher than I."
-Pslam 61:2
User avatar
AslansChild
NarniaWeb Nut
 
Posts: 496
Joined: Jun 09, 2011
Location: In a perfect place,in battle.

Re: Special Feature: Les Miserables!

Postby shastastwin » May 07, 2013 7:17 am

;)) AslansChild, that is a pretty good satire of the film, yes.

I watched the film a few weeks ago with my family, despite having only made it to the end of Part II. I really should made some more headway with this book. My general opinion of the book so far is that Hugo has a gift for words, but he kills his story by taking too long to tell it. I don't think the story would work as well if it were written like most books are today, but just a tad more streamlining would be nice. ;)

That said, I still get snatches of the musical's songs stuck in my head.
"All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a Thousand Enemies. And when they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you..."
Inexhaustible Inspiration
User avatar
shastastwin
Moderator Emeritus
Saint Schwinn
 
Posts: 9372
Joined: May 09, 2005
Location: Watership Down
Gender: Male

Re: Special Feature: Les Miserables!

Postby stargazer » May 30, 2013 9:20 pm

Interesting points, shastastwin. I have differing opinions of the book when I read it as a reader and when I read it as a writer.

As a reader I enjoy getting immersed in Hugo's 1800s Paris (though I too found myself occasionally wishing he'd get on with the story.

I also enjoy it as a writer - his mastery of the written word - and how it's contrary to many of those "20 rules for getting published" lists one can find on the internet. I suspect those long rambling diversions would be anathema to getting published today, as we hear so much about using concise language and getting to the point in our own writing. This isn't a criticism, by the way; just an observation. And there are times I can see the influence of what I'm reading upon my own writing style at the time.
But all night, Aslan and the Moon gazed upon each other with joyful and unblinking eyes.
User avatar
stargazer
Moderator
 
Posts: 22030
Joined: Mar 28, 2004
Location: by a campfire

Re: Special Feature: Les Miserables!

Postby waggawerewolf27 » Jun 02, 2013 4:34 am

I think there is a good reason for the rambles, however. Victor Hugo, along with many of his contemporaries of the 19th century, wrote the way he did because there wasn't much entertainment as we see it today, especially for women, whose husbands' wealth dictated whether or not they worked, even around the house. A nice detailed book with plenty of imagination and description would have gone a long way.

The sort of detail that Victor Hugo and others put in their books must have compensated for the scenic effects we see in films and on TV. Even radio must have shortened many books.
User avatar
waggawerewolf27
NarniaWeb Zealot
 
Posts: 8781
Joined: Sep 25, 2009
Location: Oz
Gender: Female

Re: Special Feature: Les Miserables!

Postby Aslanisthebest » Jun 02, 2013 10:44 pm

AslansChild, I really enjoyed parts of that video. :)) Thanks for sharing that.

Well, I finished the book about a month ago... I don't know if I can adequately say everything I'd like to about it, and this is just the first reading. I can say that a) the Bishop was my favourite. b) I really enjoyed Parts I, II, and half of III, but I was not generally that fond of the rest of III, IV, and V (there were parts in these I really liked, especially Valjean's growth and some aspects to the revolution, but I guess what I did not like was the primary plots being featured and I was not fond of grown up Cosette.) I'll be reading it again, but not in a while, probably. ;))

I agree with all the thoughts above. Interestingly, my sister (who does not have much tolerance for needless frivolity in literature) said she liked Hugo's writing style, with the digressions, because some really help set up the background. (Much like a radio broadcast, the way wagga said.)
I think that helped me appreciate some parts of the books. I did like the descriptions that had meaning to them, but I was really irritated by some that I just skipped the Battle of Waterloo (All but the last chapter) and the sewers of Paris (after really, sincerely trying). :P But there were other more character-driven digressions that I enjoyed, like the street urchin, the Bishop's lifestyle, etc.

Like Gazer said, I enjoyed Hugo's mastery of words. At some parts, I just read them in awe and wondered how someone could think of communicating in a way that was open, poignant, and fitting.

Gazer wrote:I have differing opinions of the book when I read it as a reader and when I read it as a writer. [...] I also enjoy it as a writer - his mastery of the written word - and how it's contrary to many of those "20 rules for getting published" lists one can find on the internet. I suspect those long rambling diversions would be anathema to getting published today, as we hear so much about using concise language and getting to the point in our own writing. This isn't a criticism, by the way; just an observation. And there are times I can see the influence of what I'm reading upon my own writing style at the time.
Ditto. Seeing Hugo's writing style encouraged me to get to the point so as to not do the same to my (prospective) readers, but it also encouraged me to ease up a bit and try focus on creating a rich background. I felt like, while a good deal were tedious, some of the diversions were justifiable in explaining events. I found the book influenced how I wrote, too, in a way that I appreciated. :)
Image
RL Sibling: CSLewisNarnia
User avatar
Aslanisthebest
Moderator Emeritus
 
Posts: 5623
Joined: May 18, 2008
Location: Here

Re: Special Feature: Les Miserables!

Postby johobbit » Jan 02, 2014 5:34 pm

Sooo, 7 months after the last post ... ;))

Three of my family went to see the live theatre production of Les Mis in Toronto before Christmas. The music was amazing, as were the acting and sets. We were, however, extremely disappointed in some very inappropriate crudeness (I guess that's redundant :P) of numerous small parts, not only during the two songs in which those are quite expected, but throughout a couple of other scenes as well. Pretty poor taste, I would say. Cancelling those bits out, though, it really was a treat to see live.

EDIT: The fellow who played Enjolras reminded us very much of Aaron Tveit, who we thought was bang-on phenomenal in the recent film.
User avatar
johobbit
Moderator
 
Posts: 16090
Joined: Feb 06, 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada ... under the northern sky
Gender: Female

Re: Special Feature: Les Miserables!

Postby shastastwin » Jan 03, 2014 10:46 am

I've picked up this book again after about 6 months off. I put it down for other books and, well, I never picked it back up until this week. I'm going slowly, as it's my alternate while I also read The Book Thief, but I'm going to attempt to finish it this year. I started it in January of last year, so I really should get a move on. ;))

So far my favorite characters are the Bishop Myriel and Jean Valjean. It feels as though I haven't really got to know most of the rest of them due to all of the social and political commentary. 8-|
"All the world will be your enemy, Prince with a Thousand Enemies. And when they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you..."
Inexhaustible Inspiration
User avatar
shastastwin
Moderator Emeritus
Saint Schwinn
 
Posts: 9372
Joined: May 09, 2005
Location: Watership Down
Gender: Male

Re: Special Feature: Les Miserables!

Postby johobbit » Jan 03, 2014 11:00 am

Oooh, how are you liking The Book Thief, st? ......... erm, wups, that's for another thread. :-$ ;)

My favourite character in Les Mis, hands down, is the Bishop of Digne/ Bishop Myriel/Monseigneur Bienvenu. Even though Valjean is right up there as well, if it were not for the Bishop, who knows to what end Valjean's life would have taken him. In the overall timeframe, Myriel's appearance is little, but his influence is huge and lasting.

Oh yes, Hugo's commentaries have the strong tendency to ramble. :P
User avatar
johobbit
Moderator
 
Posts: 16090
Joined: Feb 06, 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada ... under the northern sky
Gender: Female

PreviousNext

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 22 guests