Harry Potter!!!

[Tirian12]

another late reply...but tut, tut, tut Joe Hobbit!!

anyway what are peoples thoughts about

SHOW SPOILER

when Ron returns in DH? i'm reading DH again and would like some input on what your first impressions were when Ron left, and when he came back

[Aslan Fan 4 Ever]

I didn't become a fan of HP books series until I was in my first year of High School because I just didn't think I'd like them. I heard everyone talking about it so I decided to check it out for myself. I went out to buy the first book but could only find the second book so I bought it. My language arts teacher had the first book in her classroom so she let me read it during silent reading period in class. I become totally hooked on the series from the moment that I started reading it. My favorite books are Prisoner of Azkaban and Order of the Phoenix because those are two books where my top favorite three HP characters were introduced. My top 3 favorite HP characters are Sirius Black, Nymphadora Tonks and Remus Lupin.

[DamselJillPole]

I only read the first two books in 8th grade. Though I love the movies a whole lot. I think I stopped reading them when I got into Narnia again.

[Tirian12]

i don't want to sound rude to anyone who did this, but people who only watch the movies or only read like two of the books and watch all the movies instead REALLY bug me i know it's childish and all, and i'm not trying to be rude, i'm the same way about Narnia. i'm a stickler for the books. ( no offense ment to anyone!)

[waggawerewolf27]

Yes, you are right, but only to an extent, Tirian12. The books in many ways are indeed a lot better than the films. As in the Narnia series, to appreciate the proper story the book is the way to go. Films tend to leave a lot out, and sometimes include stuff that wasn't in the book.

But don't let it upset you, or feel disgruntled with people who prefer movies to books. The trouble is with the HP books is that only three of them are anything like the same size as Lewis' quite thin Narnia books, and unlike the Narnia stories they are not illustrated in the British editions.

The other four are rather long, and people sometimes have neither the time, the patience or the reading skills to read those books comfortably and enjoyably. And there is an age factor, too. Someone of your current age, Tirian12, might be able to read all seven books comfortably. But I have watched a primary school kid of about 8 or 9 wrestling with Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire, when something a bit closer to his age group, like the Narnia stories, would have been more desirable, if I could have intervened. Some children of that age can barely read. And don't forget that not all adults can read well and efficiently, either because English is not their first language, or because they had problems learning to read in the first place.

In other words, I wouldn't be too harsh on people's reading habits, even in a beloved series.

On the other hand, the HP audio books are great on a long journey. Unlike the Narnia radio plays, good as they are, the HP audios don't leave anything out.

[Tirian12]

that is a really good thought WW27 i see what you mean, i would only give the first 3 to my ten year old cousin

[americangirlemmie]

I've read all the books 4 times ... In my family I am known as the addict ...
Americangirlemmie

[ChristProclamer]

You're lucky, Americangirlemmie! I've only read them all once (*hides from Tirian12's wrath just in case*).
On Ron's departure/Return:

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I never was a big Ron fan in the first place, so I just sort of grunted an 'I told you he was a quitter' when he left. I wasn't at all surprised. But the repeated pattern of fighting and making up made me fairly certain he would come back. I just wasn't expecting it to happen the way it did. I was actually very annoyed when he got to destroy the locket horcrux.

[Warrior 4 Jesus]

Why would you get very annoyed at him for doing that? Because you didn't like his character, or because you didn't think it was his place to do it? Personally, I thought it was about high-time he proved his mettle.

[waggawerewolf27]

The repeated pattern of fighting and making up suggest to me something very like what happens between Aravis and Shasta in HHB. In fact there are distinct parallels between the two series. EG

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Yaxley grabbing Hermione whilst they are on the way back to 12 Grimmauld place (DH) = Jadis grabbing Diggory or Polly whilst they are on their way back to London(MN).

And there is the other thing referred to by AmericangirlEmmie and ChristProclamer .

SHOW SPOILER

I never was a big Ron fan in the first place, so I just sort of grunted an 'I told you he was a quitter' when he left. I wasn't at all surprised. But the repeated pattern of fighting and making up made me fairly certain he would come back. I just wasn't expecting it to happen the way it did. I was actually very annoyed when he got to destroy the locket horcrux.

Why exactly would you feel that way? As with other similar objects, the action in question refers to many of Ron's weaknesses, and why he behaves as he does.

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In this particular action he is also destroying the moods and feelings that had plagued him all along and which the locket horcrux made a long way worse.

[ChristProclamer]

I was hoping Harry or Hermione or someone I have respect for would do the job. I just don't think he deserved to do it.

SHOW SPOILER

I was actually expecting that Snape's Patronus would turn out to be Lupin or something coming after them (I wanted Harry to let him go with them when he offered) and he'd help Harry destroy it. I was, obviously, wrong. I was glad Harry didn't drown and all, but still disappointed.

[waggawerewolf27]

It isn't a character's worth that is the point in who does what. Otherwise Crabbe wouldn't have destroyed the Diadem Horcrux. Though whether or not there is a bit of worth in the person might determine whether the person survives or not. It is also the character's weaknesses and how they overcame them that determine who destroys which horcrux. Ron suffers from jealousy, Hermione has to overcome her fear of failure and her greed for praise and acclaim. Harry has to remove the Horcrux within himself, even if he dies in the process but Harry also did kill the first Horcrux, the one in Tom Riddle's Diary, back in Chamber of Secrets.

You do have to be careful of destroying those Horcruxes. DD found that breaking the Ring Horcrux ensured he would be terminally ill.

[Tirian12]

woooot! this is quite a discussion!
first of all i want to apologize for my "wrath", i'm just a hardtail when it comes to that sort of thing, sorry. you can call me old man Tirian if you want.

anyway, people you shouldn't ashamed of your love for potter!! remember that
now that we're over that

SHOW SPOILER

i have always been a pretty big Ron fan, i mean, not like a hugely big fan, i mean he's nowhere near as big in my books as Snape, but i like his character. i was really disappointed when Ron left, i mean, i was like almost in tears, cuz it was 1:30 in the morning and i was dying to know how the book ended, i was exhausted and i just couldn't take it anymore anyhow, i pushed on, and was AMAZED by the godric's hollow scene, that was incredible. that scene is so amazing i don't know if the film makers will be able to live up to it, i mean they have to stick to a PG-13 rating right? (i mean in the States of course) now, about ratings. i don't have any personal problem if DH part 2 had a high rating (by high i mean R in the U.S.), the problem i would have is the stupidity of the film makers to do that. first of all they would lose almost all their child audience (how many parents are going to take their kids to an R rated film, whether it's Harry Potter or not?), second of all they'll lose a lot of their teen audience, i mean i'll only be sixteen when part two comes out, and so i won't be able to see it in theatres. due to all these cons i don't think either of the films will be rated above PG-13, but definetly not under PG-13. sadly, though the snake scene will be deminished by the fact that they need to keep the film somewhat family friendly. i mean a snake coming out of an old woman's body is truly horrific if you stop to think about it

[waggawerewolf27]

I don't really think you need to put in spoilers everything that is said about either Ron or the DH film rating. I agree with you that it would be really dumb to give the film too high a rating because of scenes which could be as frightening as some of the scenes shown in cartoons or in films such as the recent Clash of the Titans which is PG-13. Clash of the Titans is based on the old Greek legend of Perseus and the Medusa.

ChristProclamer thinks that Ron is a quitter, and up until HBP he has some reason for his assessment. But Ron does plenty to show his worth as well. In the first book Ron is the one who is handily in hospital when Hermione and Harry get put on detention, even though his later winning chess sacrifice in the labyrinth is spectacularly noble of him. In COS you have to hand it to Ron for going into the forest with Harry, to look for Aragog. Remember that Ron suffers from arachnophobia. In POA, Ron as Harry's right hand man, stands firmly besides Harry and Hermione in the Shrieking Shack, despite his broken leg, and despite his quarrel with Hermione over Scabbers and the Firebolt.

It is in GOF that we start really seeing Ron's dark side, when for a while he is on bad terms with Harry due to the latter's name being put in the Goblet of Fire. Apparently he felt too jealous and left out to realise that however Harry's name got into the goblet, he wasn't being done any favours. And Ron's grumpy behaviour at the Yule Ball and nastiness to Hermione and Victor Krum does confirm that Ron suffers from jealousy, this time of Hermione's escort at the ball.

Ron's patchy Quidditch performance in OotP is another clue to his insecurities and his vulnerability to the Slytherin sledging. Ron thinks too much of what others think of him as well. Especially of what his elder brothers think. What Ron would like most of all is to be the centre of attention and praise for his marvellous achievements which is why he didn't like Hermione at first, and why he periodically gets grumpy with both Harry and Hermione.

This is the main reason why he gets entangled with Lavender in HBP, which I agree is quitting in another way. It takes being nearly poisoned by someone's idea of a love/hate potion before he realises that it is Hermione he cares about all the time, & not being made a fuss of by someone else whilst on the rebound. Whilst Ron might be missing in action at times in the series, he does generally come back to his senses when it counts. There are a lot of other HP characters I think who could be better called quitters, I'm sure.

It appears that the Locket is the horcrux of jealousy, which is why Ron had so much difficulty with it. What I think about Ron and the Horcruxes is in this essay. And Ron after destroying the Locketcrux really changes for the better.

[Gandalfs Beard]

I've just been re-reading a bunch of my old Enid Blyton children's books and was really struck by some of the archetypal patterns of British Kid Lit that find their way into the Potter series. Some of these patterns (particularly the Boarding School stories) can also be found in Anthony Buckeridge's Jennings school stories.

Some of these patterns include a central group of children who take on adventures largely on their own with little adult supervision, sometimes even flouting authority figures (particularly "undeserving" authority figures). I suspect this was largely established in Britain with E Nesbit's 5 Children and It and Treasure Seeker series. But this format was prolifically engaged by Blyton in such series as The Famous 5 and The 5 Find-outer series among others.

Even CS Lewis uses this device to establish his protagonists in the Narnia series. The children in his books are remarkably like the kids featured in some of Blyton's most famous book series. The Potter series seems to uphold some of these traditions.

Blyton's (and Buckeridge's) Boarding School stories feature such elements as the Midnight Feast, Pranking, Prowling school grounds after Lights Out, the Wise Headmaster (or Headmistress), the Spiteful Teacher, the Strict but Fair teacher, the Bully, the Swotter (Nerd in modern parlance ), the Prankster...and so on. While this formula was begun in the late 19th century, it experienced a revival in post WW2 Britain and many of the formula's standards were developed in the later period.

Clearly this is a formula that Rowling drew upon for her works, and as such many of her characters can be examined in this light. Indeed--regarding the current discussion of Ron's character--we have to see that the stories would be incomplete without Ron to balance the central grouping of characters.

Ron is also an integral part of the series because his traits are an a central part of any individual personality. He represents the Id (or ungoverned passions). Hermione represents the Intellect, and Harry represents the Ego, which mediates the other two aspects of the Persona (this is a formula also found in Star Trek with McCoy, Spock and Kirk).

Anyway, just a few thoughts. I'm curious to discover if any older Potter fans (Wagga ) have seen some of these literary and psychological connections also.

GB

[ChristProclamer]

ChristProclamer thinks that Ron is a quitter, and up until HBP he has some reason for his assessment.

He, Waggawerewolf27?
Ron still seems to me a very selfish guy, and I have little pity for his 'insecurities' and his 'vulnerability'. BUT I had to admit that I was grudgingly proud of him after his return, and he grew on me a bit from there.
I know a character's worth does not relate to their ability to destroy horcruxes, but I still wanted someone I liked more to finish off the locket.

Tirian12: Creepy as certain scenes are, I don't think DH parts 1 or 2 will go above PG-13. And I don't think that will do any injustice to the books. Nowadays people can talk just about anything into getting a PG-13 rating rather than an R.