The Road Goes Ever On and On: Everything Tolkien - Book 2

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Re: The Road Goes Ever On and On: Everything Tolkien - Book 2

Postby fantasia » Aug 28, 2012 2:40 pm

Whereas we have the opposite problem here in the States. Ratings have become a bit of a joke cause they're squeezing movies into a lower rating that really don't deserve it. I'd guess Hobbit will be PG because you don't "see" any violent deaths like you do in LotR, but you never know. Doesn't really matter to me, I'll go see it irregardless. :P ;))

So last week my husband and I were on the way to Colorado and decided to discuss where we think the movies are going to break now that there are three of them.

For the end of Part 1, we came up with...
~At the end of Out of the Frying Pan and Into the Fire and before they arrive at Beorn's house.
~Right after Riddles in the Dark where Bilbo escapes from Gollum and the Goblins and is reunited with the dwarves.

End of Part 2...
~Right after the Dwarves and Bilbo escape in the barrels and arrive in Laketown. (At first we didn't think there would be enough material here, but if they include all of Gandalf's adventures that aren't necessarily talked about in the book, it might be enough.)
~Arriving at the Lonely Mountain.

We thought maybe after Smaug, but I just don't think there would be enough material left with the Battle of Five Armies to do a third movie.
Only a few more months until we find out about the first movie!!! :D :D :D
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Re: The Road Goes Ever On and On: Everything Tolkien - Book 2

Postby Varnafinde » Aug 29, 2012 11:09 am

fantasia_kitty wrote:For the end of Part 1, we came up with...
[...]
~Right after Riddles in the Dark where Bilbo escapes from Gollum and the Goblins and is reunited with the dwarves.


That's what I would also suggest for that ending. It rounds off the first movie nicely, not too much of a cliff-hanger - Bilbo is safe and ready to continue his adventure next week.
Errr, I mean, next year.

End of Part 2...
[...]
We thought maybe after Smaug, but I just don't think there would be enough material left with the Battle of Five Armies to do a third movie.


When you read the skirmish that was the battle of Helm's Deep and compare it to the massive battle in the Two Towers movie, I think that "not enough material for a battle" is not an issue :p

And if they put in the whole issue of Dol Guldur and the Necromancer, there could be plenty for the next movie.

I would end the second movie a little earlier and leave Smaug's death for the third movie, though. Finish it after Bilbo has talked to the dragon - perhaps when Smaug sets off for Laketown?

I'm not sure about what exact moment I would choose, though, mostly because I don't remember the sequence of events at that time very well. I've just started rereading the book ...
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Re: The Road Goes Ever On and On: Everything Tolkien - Book 2

Postby fantasia » Aug 30, 2012 9:12 am

Varna wrote:When you read the skirmish that was the battle of Helm's Deep and compare it to the massive battle in the Two Towers movie, I think that "not enough material for a battle" is not an issue :P
I had wondered if someone was going to call me out on that. ;)) I had the same thought, but I need to clarify what I meant. I know PJ could easily do 2 hours of 5 armies warring away. But what I meant was, that's ALL it would be... that and the aftermath. The lack of story would turn it into a summer smash fest. ;)) I don't know that it would go over well with the viewers, but I could be wrong.

Varna wrote:And if they put in the whole issue of Dol Guldur and the Necromancer, there could be plenty for the next movie.
Did you mean this for the second or third movie?

Varna wrote:I would end the second movie a little earlier and leave Smaug's death for the third movie, though. Finish it after Bilbo has talked to the dragon - perhaps when Smaug sets off for Laketown?
How about right after they fit the key in the door and it opens down to Smaug? A little later than my suggestions, but earlier than the long sequence with Smaug.

ETA: First pic of Thranduil :D
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Re: The Road Goes Ever On and On: Everything Tolkien - Book 2

Postby daughter of the King » Aug 30, 2012 2:57 pm

If they're not cutting it at Barrels Out of Bond (which was my initial thought when they were doing two movies), they should cut it when the Dwarves and Bilbo enter Mirkwood. It's a perfect slightly happy moment with just a touch of foreboding and gloom and doom that will transition nicely to the start of the second movie. This would work really well if there was a parting shot of Bilbo entering the wood, and then the camera zooms up to above the trees and turns south towards Dol Guldur. *cue Ring music*

The second movie would then cover Mirkwood, Barrels out of Bond, the arrival at Lake Town, and taking down Dol Guldur. Cut at the Necromancer fleeing east and then turn and zoom north to see smoke trailing out of the Lonely Mountain. And then everything else in the third movie. I still don't really like the idea of three, but I could see it working this way.

On Thranduil's picture:
Look! It's Lucius Malfoy! Oh, wait. . .

I like his overall look. Very king-like and I'm-in-charge-here-nobody-messes-with-me-especially-not-those-Dwarves! His crown looks a bit like it's growing out of his head, but that could be just the studio shot.
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Re: The Road Goes Ever On and On: Everything Tolkien - Book 2

Postby johobbit » Aug 31, 2012 9:10 am

Gracious, I really haven't sat down and thought of where each film would end now that the third one has been added. I'd like to take this to my family so that we individually write down where each film might conclude, then seal it until the releases. ;))

Dot wrote:This would work really well if there was a parting shot of Bilbo entering the wood, and then the camera zooms up to above the trees and turns south towards Dol Guldur.

Very cool. Kind of like how PJ had the final scene in TTT, with Frodo, Samwise following Gollum on into the woods towards the Ephel Dúath, then swinging the camera up, up, up over the mountains, looking into Mordor.

As for Thranduil, he looks like Lucius Malfoy from HP (I've always thought Malfoy looked a bit too Elvish, though, lol) and is too non-woodsy for my thinking. And whilst I love the idea of a crown of autumn leaves, his seems a bit ... extreme. I wish his costume was more in greens and browns, rather than almost metallic. :-\ That blond hair needs to go: brown, please. ;)) Cool look for maybe an Elf star, but not for the Woodland King. :P
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Re: The Road Goes Ever On and On: Everything Tolkien - Book 2

Postby Varnafinde » Aug 31, 2012 9:51 am

fantasia_kitty wrote:I know PJ could easily do 2 hours of 5 armies warring away. But what I meant was, that's ALL it would be... that and the aftermath. The lack of story would turn it into a summer smash fest. ;)) I don't know that it would go over well with the viewers, but I could be wrong.


Yes, it wouldn't necessarily be a good movie. I remember from watching the Battle of the Pelennor Fields in RotK, and thinking after a while, "Now that's enough. I've seen it all. I don't need more of the same." And there was more of the same for at least another ten minutes =;

Varna wrote:And if they put in the whole issue of Dol Guldur and the Necromancer, there could be plenty for the next movie.
Did you mean this for the second or third movie?


For the third.

How about right after they fit the key in the door and it opens down to Smaug? A little later than my suggestions, but earlier than the long sequence with Smaug.


That's probably even better. But do give us a little glimpse of Smaug - just a small taste of what we can expect B-)
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Re: The Road Goes Ever On and On: Everything Tolkien - Book 2

Postby shastastwin » Aug 31, 2012 10:06 am

After having to live with this version of Thranduil, I'll take almost anything. I do agree that the metallic clothes have got to go, but his sword and crown are great. I honestly did not make the connection to Lucius Malfoy (though I do see it). My first thought upon seeing the picture was, "Yep. That's Legolas' dad all right." ;))

As for the crown, I was expecting something much weirder to show up, a la the musical's verison of Galadriel. Given that assumption, I'm glad that it isn't that ostentatious and it seems very natural and proper to me.
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Re: The Road Goes Ever On and On: Everything Tolkien - Book 2

Postby johobbit » Aug 31, 2012 10:28 am

fk wrote:I know PJ could easily do 2 hours of 5 armies warring away. But what I meant was, that's ALL it would be... that and the aftermath. The lack of story would turn it into a summer smash fest. ;)) I don't know that it would go over well with the viewers, but I could be wrong.

Varna wrote:Yes, it wouldn't necessarily be a good movie. I remember from watching the Battle of the Pelennor Fields in RotK, and thinking after a while, "Now that's enough. I've seen it all. I don't need more of the same." And there was more of the same for at least another ten minutes =;

Ditto, Varna! So weary of PJ's prolonged battle scenes. What's the point, I ask? And, fk, I don't think you'd be wrong ... at least for many of us here. B-)

Even though I'm not fond of Thranduil's overall image, it struck me too, st, how he and Legolas could be related, although I pictured an older Elf. (Mind you, do Elves ever look old? :P) To me, though, he looks like he could be Leggy's brother rather than father.

My father finished reading The Lord of the Rings the other day and found " 'Well, I'm back', he said" to be a very moving concluding sentence. He then immediately asked about The Silmarillion. ;)) So, who knows? :D
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Re: The Road Goes Ever On and On: Everything Tolkien - Book 2

Postby Varnafinde » Aug 31, 2012 10:38 am

Let's hope he doesn't expect Silmarillion to be more of the same.
When I first saw the Sil, I flicked through it in the bookshop, but wasn't very interested, so I just left it.

Little did I know that I missed out on owning a First Edition :-o
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Re: The Road Goes Ever On and On: Everything Tolkien - Book 2

Postby johobbit » Aug 31, 2012 10:44 am

A First Edition?!! :-o Wowser!

I did explain to Dad that The Sil is a different (and heavier) style than The LotR and reads much like parts of the Old Testament, so he is duly warned. ;)

But as he is deep into Great Expectations now (for the umpteenth time), I'll wait for his cue.
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Re: The Road Goes Ever On and On: Everything Tolkien - Book 2

Postby Varnafinde » Aug 31, 2012 10:50 am

I could have bought it on the day when it was first published - in a university bookshop in England, where I was a student at the time.
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Re: The Road Goes Ever On and On: Everything Tolkien - Book 2

Postby narnian1 » Aug 31, 2012 8:18 pm

A change in Hobbit titles. The movies.

1 is still titled: The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey
2 now called: The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug
3 will take over 2's original title: The Hobbit: There and Back Again
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Re: The Road Goes Ever On and On: Everything Tolkien - Book 2

Postby daughter of the King » Aug 31, 2012 8:35 pm

Including the link for the story above: http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2012/08/31/61326-warner-bros-drops-new-hobbit-film-titles-and-dates/ There's some additional commentary on the third movie and what it will focus on.

I like the three titles. The last one just had to be "There and Back Again". It just had to be.
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Re: The Road Goes Ever On and On: Everything Tolkien - Book 2

Postby Gymfan15 » Aug 31, 2012 8:42 pm

Desolation of Smaug...where have I heard of that before? Oh yeah, when their movie distributor was taking out domain names awhile ago. :p People were scratching their heads trying to figure out what it was for, and there ya go.

Regarding movie splits, I don't know if this has been discussed already, but I'm 99.999% sure that AUJ (hehe, worst acronym ever) is ending with the Dwarfs escaping Mirkwood and arriving at Laketown. That's the last bit of chronological shooting we've seen in production videos and such, and PJ has taken great pains not to show anything from future movies. So barrel riding it is!
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Re: The Road Goes Ever On and On: Everything Tolkien - Book 2

Postby fantasia » Aug 31, 2012 8:43 pm

I wrote:I know PJ could easily do 2 hours of 5 armies warring away. But what I meant was, that's ALL it would be... that and the aftermath. The lack of story would turn it into a summer smash fest.

TORn wrote:Hollywood Reporter and various other outlets are reporting that July 18, 2014 will be the release date for the third Hobbit film.

Well... ;)) Summer smash fest it is. :P
Also would have liked the second movie to be a chapter title but the one they picked out isn't bad.
I AM glad that movie two and three are only 6 months apart instead of a full year. ;))
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Re: The Road Goes Ever On and On: Everything Tolkien - Book 2

Postby johobbit » Sep 02, 2012 10:03 am

Ooooh, I like the three titles! The Desolation of Smaug is very cool, but think The Desolation of the Dragon is even better—more mysterious and elusive, therefore appealing. I wonder if they considered that ...

Dot wrote:The last one just had to be "There and Back Again". It just had to be.

Definitely. :D

fk wrote:I AM glad that movie two and three are only 6 months apart instead of a full year.

Likewise! Which always brings to mind that I've always been quite glad I wasn't first reading The Lord of the Rings when the volumes were initially released in the UK, slightly later in North America:
FotR 29 July 1954;
TTT: 11 November 1954;
RotK 20 October 1955.
Can you imagine having to wait that long in between each without having a clue what was going to transpire?! :-o I do wish the publisher had called the third volume The War of the Ring, as Tolkien preferred, rather thanThe Return of the King, which gives too much away. :P

The Hobbit music: I meant to post this nearly a couple of weeks ago, but on August 20th, the The Hobbit recording sessions in London officially begun under Howard Shore, of course. :D And Doug Adams, Shore's 'shadow', and author of the thoroughly fantastic The Music of the Lord of the Rings, has been contracted to write The Music of The Hobbit films! <- link
\:D/
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