The Road Goes Ever On and On: Everything Tolkien - Book 2

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Re: The Road Goes Ever On and On: Everything Tolkien - Book 2

Postby Meltintalle » Jul 30, 2012 8:46 pm

My vote is that after they make a 3-movie Hobbit, they go back and make a 9-movie (at least) adaptation of Lord of the Rings.

Let there be lots and lots of walking!!! (And book!Faramir [-( ) 8-}
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Re: The Road Goes Ever On and On: Everything Tolkien - Book 2

Postby fantasia » Jul 31, 2012 10:19 am

Some official possibilities for the title of the third Hobbit film (I'm wondering if they'll rename one film...? We'll see.)

-The Desolation of Smaug
-The Battle of Five Armies
-The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug
-The Hobbit: The Battle of Five Armies

http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2012/07 ... ie-titles/

I like the Battle of Five Armies myself. ;))
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Re: The Road Goes Ever On and On: Everything Tolkien - Book 2

Postby johobbit » Jul 31, 2012 11:04 am

Mel wrote:My vote is that after they make a 3-movie Hobbit, they go back and make a 9-movie (at least) adaptation of Lord of the Rings.

:)) Indeed! And book everyone! :D

When I read this yesterday on TORn, the quote immediately popped to mind about feeling thin, stretched, like butter spread over too much bread. :P Going to copy and paste what I wrote elsewhere, with some edits: I have mixed feelings, but most of them are skeptical. As others have asked, what is the real purpose of this? Is PJ finally succumbing to Hollywood greed or does he still truly have a solid interest in Tolkien's work? And will the actual Hobbit tale be lost with all the other stuff interspersed? I would rather see two movies of excellence telling The Hobbit story than three of dubious value and/or motivation with too much supplementary material.

Two Hobbit movies, then one "bridge" film like they were talking about way back when, would have been okay, but my initial reaction with three Hobbit movies is that I am not thrilled, no preciousssss.

As shastastwin posted on the previous page, a rather significant fear is that Jackson will insert too much of his own take on Middle-earth, rather than tell JRR's tale, and PJ's character changes in The LotR make me rather ill to this day. I, too, hope these three films will be very nice surprises, rather than let-downs.

On another note, has anyone seen this before? A friend saw it in a Toronto newspaper first in December/03 with the release of The RotK film, and immediately passed it on to me. Such fun! ;))

EDITED to add a bit above, and to say that as of last night my dad was with Frodo and Samwise at the Black Gate in The Two Towers, and he's calling Gollum a "weirdo" quite consistently. ;))
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Re: The Road Goes Ever On and On: Everything Tolkien - Book 2

Postby Pattertwigs Pal » Aug 02, 2012 8:49 am

As many of others have said, I have mixed feelings about 3 movies. If it means that they will get more of the Hobbit into the movies (things they would likely have cut to add in the other stuff), then I'm all for it. I don't want the Hobbit to be overshadowed but it might be less likely in 3 movies than in 2. With the Lord of the Rings movies a lot of canon material was cut (Some filmed (the giving of the gifts and the trees coming to Helms Deep) some not (plenty of examples for that. :P )) I have a feeling the filmmakers might have cut a lot of Hobbit material to allow for the side plot with Gandalf and whatever romance they are going to add. Maybe now we will get more Hobbit. However, if they add a lot of non canon material and/or two much serious material and the feeling of the Hobbit is lost, I am not going to be amused. I think there would be enough material to make two movies of the Hobbit without the back story. So maybe they are just adding the equivalent of one movie of back story.
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Re: The Road Goes Ever On and On: Everything Tolkien - Book 2

Postby AslansChild » Aug 02, 2012 6:48 pm

I have to admit, I was swayed. [-( I was very upset when it was announced about the three films, mainly due to my lack of patience and desire to see it. I can't imagine having to wait three years to see all three parts of a film/book/story. BUT, it was done in LOTR, so I'll live. ;)

But today, I read this: http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2012/08 ... xpect-now/ Very nice post, actually. And I have to agree with them. We should have seen this coming, he hinted at it enough times. And if anyone could pull off such a stunt only a few months away from the premiere of the first film...it would be Sir PJ. :-bd And, while my patience will be stretched, it will just mean more film to watch! So, it will pay off in the end. It'll be so very worth it.

In the spirit of the Olympics: "Let the the films commence!"
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Re: The Road Goes Ever On and On: Everything Tolkien - Book 2

Postby Lady Haleth » Aug 03, 2012 1:44 pm

I really don't like the idea of three movies. I didn't even like the idea of two movies. The Hobbit isn't that long, it could work perfectly well as one movie. I don't think shoehorning a bunch of stuff in from the appendixes is enough to make three movies. It just doesn't make sense. I'm kind of tired of this whole 'split the book into multiple movies to make more money,' nonsense. It started with Harry Potter, but given that Deathly Hallows is about 750 pages long, they had more of a point. But even there, they left out some important points, and the last movie had to stretch things out too much. I also think three movies will take the focus off Bilbo and put it more on Gandalf, Galadriel, and the Obligatory Romance. And honestly, I'd rather see the whole story at once than wait three or four years. I probably won't see this one.
Also, apparently Jackson does not have the rights to any Silmarillion material, which is just as well because the Silmarillion would never work as a movie anyway.
I have mixed feelings about the movies. They're great as far as costumes, setting, music, and things like that go (the Shire looked just how I imagined it). Some of the characters (Sam, Gollum and Gandalf) are also good, but when it comes to their faithfulness as adaptations, I'm not really satisfied. This isn't about the things they took out (like Tom Bombadil), but rather the things they put in and the characters who weren't in character (Aragorn, Frodo, and Faramir especially.)
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Re: The Road Goes Ever On and On: Everything Tolkien - Book 2

Postby daughter of the King » Aug 03, 2012 2:51 pm

^^ That's exactly why I don't like the idea of three movies. Two movies made sense to me if they added Dol-Guldor. But with three movies, what is he adding? Or, what might be a better question, what is he changing? Thorin already has some confirmed character changes; a female Elf love-interest has been added; what else is PJ going to do to the story?

It's sounding less and less like The Hobbit and more and more like Peter Jackson's Prequel to the Lord of the Rings.

johobbit wrote:On another note, has anyone seen this before?

Oh yes. ;)) Gotta love Foxtrot.
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Re: The Road Goes Ever On and On: Everything Tolkien - Book 2

Postby AslansChild » Aug 03, 2012 6:32 pm

Well, the Hobbit 1.1 Trailer is online!

Was a bit disappointed, but now I know why it was called "1.1"...there's hardly any difference at all from the first trailer, except for about 3, 2 second each clips. :-??

Uh, why would they release a trailer that's so much like the first? Perhaps they're taking the clips that they replaced from the first trailer and they're going to use them in the other films?

Trailer # 1



Trailer # 1.1



The only things that are different?


0:23 — Bilbo’s reaction to Gandalf’s arrival
1:57 — Bilbo hiding behind a tree in Mirkwood
1:59 — Gandalf, the dwarves, and Bilbo running through a forest


(Taken from: http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2012/08 ... n-youtube/)

____________________________________________________________________

Another thought:

If you look at the video, at 1:34, when it says :"The Director Of The Lord Of The Rings Trilogy" it shows the map/book that says
"The Desolation of Smaug"


Could it be that this films ends with
Smaug's death?


Or would that be too soon for three films? :-\
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Re: The Road Goes Ever On and On: Everything Tolkien - Book 2

Postby Lady Galadriel » Aug 03, 2012 7:10 pm

A 9-movie LotR? :-o If each one ended on a cliffhanger, I would find that pretty torturous! 8-}

My guess for Trailer 1.1 is that they wanted to introduce The Hobbit to an audience that prefers milder ratings (like G). Then they felt like they had one very nicely done introductory trailer completed already, and if there were only a few shots to be changed to make it G, why not just use the same one?
If this was their thought process, though, it does make me wonder what the movie will be rated. I was expecting PG-13, but maybe they are planning on PG since they released a G trailer. We'll see.
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Re: The Road Goes Ever On and On: Everything Tolkien - Book 2

Postby Lady Haleth » Aug 04, 2012 6:54 am

daughter of the King wrote:
It's sounding less and less like The Hobbit and more and more like Peter Jackson's Prequel to the Lord of the Rings.


Exactly. Its like they're trying to make it too much like The Lord of the Rings, while forgetting that its actually a very different story. Its much more comic, the hero doesn't suffer as much, and the fate of the world isn't at stake.
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Re: The Road Goes Ever On and On: Everything Tolkien - Book 2

Postby Meltintalle » Aug 04, 2012 12:59 pm

Lady Galadriel wrote:A 9-movie LotR? :-o If each one ended on a cliffhanger, I would find that pretty torturous! 8-}
True! ;)) The ideal would be close enough to the books that you could be confident enough of what to expect that it wouldn't be excruciating. (And if it was filmed mostly at once, you could release two films a year or something.) On the other hand, if nine is excessive for LotR, I stand by the thought that 3 for The Hobbit is far too much.

AslansChild, if they end the first movie with the death of Smaug I have no idea what they'd put in two and three. Too much battle for my taste, most likely! (Marshwiggle/Eeyore voice: Probably get that anyway.) More likely is the theory, which I've now seen so many times I don't remember who put it forward, that movie one will end with the dwarves arriving at Laketown or just before. The phrase "desolation of Smaug" simply refers to the territory Smaug has turned into a wasteland with his eating and treasure collecting and Laketown is on the edge of that area.
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Re: The Road Goes Ever On and On: Everything Tolkien - Book 2

Postby GlimGlum » Aug 14, 2012 1:21 pm

I got caught up on all of the Production blogs/diaries when I house sat last week. Very interesting sets and locations and the big emphasis on 3D. (Looks like a certain friend of mine will be seeing his first 3D movie this December.)

Good to see Peter Jackson giving the Middle Earth tour and I also liked what I saw of the cast on and off the set. B-) I'll have to wait until more comes out about the third film in order to have an opinion. I definitely believe there was enough in the book for 2 movies.

Looking forward to the first Hobbit movie and it will be interesting to see how it performs compared to the big blockbusters that have come out so far this year. :)
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Re: The Road Goes Ever On and On: Everything Tolkien - Book 2

Postby AslansChild » Aug 16, 2012 1:38 pm

Meltintalle wrote:AslansChild, if they end the first movie with the death of Smaug I have no idea what they'd put in two and three. Too much battle for my taste, most likely! (Marshwiggle/Eeyore voice: Probably get that anyway.)


Oh, okay. I thought there would be a big battle in one of the films, kind of like The Two Towers. :) But as Lady Galadriel said
Lady Galadriel wrote:...they wanted to introduce The Hobbit to an audience that prefers milder ratings (like G). Then they felt like they had one very nicely done introductory trailer completed already, and if there were only a few shots to be changed to make it G, why not just use the same one?
If this was their thought process, though, it does make me wonder what the movie will be rated. I was expecting PG-13, but maybe they are planning on PG since they released a G trailer*. We'll see.


*Bold emphasis mine.

It defiantly seems much lighter than LOTR, almost like a child's film.

Dare I say it. :-?
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Re: The Road Goes Ever On and On: Everything Tolkien - Book 2

Postby The Old Maid » Aug 24, 2012 1:16 pm

Hi all, back from health leave.

Three comments. Well, one comment and two questions to take our minds off the comment we seem to share.

The Hobbit.

The Hobbit is a story about Bilbo Baggins firstly, Thorin Oakenshield secondly, and then about everyone who wants him to succeed such as Gandalf and the other Dwarves.

The Hobbit is a Bildungsroman. It is the story of a well-meaning but bumbling innocent who cannot keep up with Bombur of all people, yet learns on the job until he becomes a wiser leader than Thorin.

What The Hobbit is not: it is not The Avengers with Gandalf as Nick Fury and his amazing Elven-friends as the Warriors Three.

What I would consider as additions: Gandalf's Unfinished Tales meeting with Thorin, or the destruction of Dale. They would be Thorin's dreams, showing the passage of time he slowly rots in the dungeons of the Elvenking, not knowing if his friends are alive or dead. Maybe a few flashbacks as Balin recalls the last time he stood watch on Ravenhill. But I think that flashbacks would work best if they aren't longer than the Smeagol and Deagol scene in Return of the King.

To me it's very simple. The Hobbit deserves to be its own film. It is only long enough to be one film. The Rankin-Bass version had to pad with songs to make it long enough to be one film. Even if they flesh out little plot tidbits such as the ponies bolting into the Greyflood, or Bilbo stealing the pie from the village by the Forest River, that would add up to one film. No more.

If the extra material is good, release it as its own film/s and I will watch. I like ice cream and I like barbecue sauce, but not in the same bowl. If the extra material is not good, don't put it in anywhere. I like ice cream but I don't like vinegar, and putting them in the same bowl won't make the vinegar good.

If only there was a way for the production team to hear our cries across the pathless voids!

If there is anyone who does have their ear, or posts on a website that they read, feel free to copy & paste to add my plea to yours, unless someone else has done it better.

...

Now, some questions to take our minds off it.

Question 1. Those wacky Numenoreans and their pride. Ar-Pharazon the Golden defeated Sauron without firing a shot. A monument was installed at Umbar, which even the Exiles honored and maintained. Oh sure, Cousin Goldie was a tyrant, but it was the first time anyone beat Sauron without firing a shot.

So why aren't the Exiles proud of the heroes in their family? Tar-Palantir the prophet. Lindorie the saint (sister of Earendur of Andunie, the father or less likely the grandfather of Amandil). Inzilbeth the saint. Amandil and Tar-Miriel the martyrs. Or maybe they were all martyrs, depending on how you define martyrdom.

On the one hand, the fact that Elendil set up his own dynasty suggests that he rejected his role as Tar-Miriel's closest living relative. (They had the same great-grandmother: Earendur's unnamed parent/s, making them second cousins.) On the other hand, the fact that Elendil holds up Silmarien as the mother of the founder of the dynasty suggests a rejection of the Numenorean monarchs as a whole, save those before her.

Complicating all of this is the fact that the Exiles adopted the Elvish custom of not counting daughters as heirs. Idril and Luthen, anyone? ("Maeglin heard that Turgon had no heir.")

The kings of Arnor always had sons. Something like 39 generations of sons if we count back to the First Age. So the Exiles never had to face the question of Zelophehad's daughters until the days of Arvedui.

(For those unfamiliar with the tale, the women argued that by disinheriting a daughter, the law disinherited a man's grandsons through that daughter. God sided with the women, making this a divine ruling and therefore a legal precedent. I know the Men of Middle-Earth had no copies of Scripture of their own, but it's interesting that they didn't seem to have laws of their own, even though the House of Hador had an army!)

I guess what I'm asking is where do these guys get their succession rules. It seems to change every few generations according to convenience rather than principle.

...

Question 2. Much simpler. What happened to Sauron's other eye?
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Re: The Road Goes Ever On and On: Everything Tolkien - Book 2

Postby Varnafinde » Aug 25, 2012 2:33 am

Answer to Question 2:
He merged it with the first one.

Perhaps that's how cyclops first came into being?
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Re: The Road Goes Ever On and On: Everything Tolkien - Book 2

Postby Warrior 4 Jesus » Aug 25, 2012 5:52 am

I see The Hobbit having a lighter tone than The Lord of the Rings but I don't think it will receive a PG rating. You can't do much with a PG movie these days (at least not in Australia - we seem to be much stricter on violence than sexuality). Case in point - both Eragon and Prince Caspian received an M15+ rating here.
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