Writer's World

[jbc003]

Exactly Star,

You can always edit it later. You can get really bogged down in trying to make things 'perfect.' As a professor once said to me, "It doesn't have to be perfect...it just has to get done."

I think that is what NaNo month is for. Keeping us moving toward the goal. We can fix what we need to later.

JBC

[Fire Fairy]

That would be my recommendation. Finish the draft and if it is too long, then you can split it up. I've had drafts at 250-280 pages (that is 135k to 160k words). My spiritual warfare novel is currently about 120k (ish, I haven't checked the word count in a while)....So go ahead and finish your draft. Don't worry about length. That will take care of itself as you edit.

I had never thought of that, FencerforJesus! I had always thought of my books as seperate novels, even though they were all the same story. In fact, I really like that idea (which means it'll take even longer to write, but that's okay). Come to think of it, that's probably smarter than writing the first and revising it until it works, and then the next, and so on, because this way I can revise the entire story, especially if something major comes up that I hadn't thought of, rather than having to stick with what I'd already written. Thank you!

Lady Galadriel, I'm not sure what to tell you. How far past the point did you go? All I can suggest is slightly manipulating the plotline so you can ease your character in there. I have a similar problem, but kind of the opposite. I just realized that one of my characters (very minor) is only in the story to help the plot along. What do you do about Plot-Fillers? I think that's probably the easiest way to fall into cliche characters. Should I get rid of the character altogether, and adjust the plot accordingly (once I'm done with my first draft, that is)? Or should I try to expand on that character, make them more interesting, even though they only appear in one chapter?

[FencerforJesus]

If you see your work as two stories, then perhaps it should be two stories. There's nothing wrong with taking the same characters and going deeper into thier world later on. The problem, as seen in bad movie sequels, is that they try to do the same thing that the first does only 'bigger and better' and it ends up being poorly done. I would make a split if the two stories can stand on thier own. If a major character reaches his climax in the middle of the story and has no room for growth, then the story should wrap up there and you can continue later.

But there is another twist of having two different stories woven together into one plot line. This is what I do in mine. I have two seemingly very different story lines (in fact they are in different time periods) in which I alternate between them as the story progresses. But starting halfway, I begin to merge them into one big thing. Which of these two fit your work more?

I mentioned earlier I thought about splitting my book in half as well. I am also working on a sequel and if I were to do that, I would re-write the whole thing to fit into a trilogy. If a trilogy is to be made, each story should be a stand alone, not have two parts be a (1/2 and 2/2). If that situation comes about, leave it like that and have a single main story cover it all. I plan to only do two books on my main characters, but I do have the option of doing individual spin-offs of each of my major characters (as was suggested by a friend). Those books would just be short novellas, focusing on each character, occasionally bringing in some others. But since my novel is based on spiritual warfare, I later plan to take the concepts of what I established and take that view to the time and ministry of Jesus while he was on the earth. I need to do some research on that, because my MC is currently slated to be Matthias, the desciple that replaced Judas in Acts 1. We don't know much about him and that would be a very interesting perspective to follow.

Gotta run to class now followed by Intervarsity Meetings.

[Fire Fairy]

FencerforJesus, you have no idea how helpful you've been! I find your advice very helpful. My story is just one story, from one POV (well, sometimes I flip back and forth between two characters, but they both are almost always in the same place, since they are traveling together, so it's pretty much one POV), and while there is a climax at the end of my first "book", it's not the main climax of the story. In fact, lately I've been wondering whether the end of my "book" was a little anti-climatic. A sign that I should combine my stories, perhaps? I don't know. I'll have to take that into consideration. It's a good thing you've brought this up now, though, while I'm still working on my first draft. Once I decide what I'm going to do, it'll make everything ten times easier, and perhaps eliminate a draft or two (or not...). Again, thank you so much!!!

[Lady Galadriel]

Lady Galadriel, I'm not sure what to tell you. How far past the point did you go? All I can suggest is slightly manipulating the plotline so you can ease the minor character in there.

I didn't go too far, actually. The situation is something like this: the main character is taken prisoner in the enemy's camp (there has been a war going on between the two sides). The enemy leader is planning to execute the MC because the MC demonstrates such a big threat to him.

My Previous Plan: The enemy leader is planning to execute the MC, but right before it happens, while none of the enemy army is watching, [the MC] is rescued by the minor character.
What Is Happening Now: It's been carried a lot further than that, up to the point of the execution. A battle breaks out between the two armies in the last moment. I know it sounds cliche, but I've been twisting it and adding elements so that it really isn't. Now the problem: The minor character hasn't shown up yet!
(And it's not like a character I can just skip. It's kinda like the character that went away at the beginning of the story and is now returning, if you get the effect.)

I've been thinking that since this isn't the ultimate conclusion, perhaps the character MIGHT be able to come in a little later. It'll take imagination to find out! For example, in Lord of the Rings, the conclusion of the story is about at the time of Mount Doom, but then there's still the Scouring of the Shire afterward. (If you haven't read it, basically the plot of the story is done around the time of Mount Doom, but then the characters return home to find a problem they consequently solve.)

I just realized that one of my characters (very minor) is only in the story to help the plot along. What do you do about Plot-Fillers? I think that's probably the easiest way to fall into cliche characters. Should I get rid of the character altogether, and adjust the plot accordingly (once I'm done with my first draft, that is)? Or should I try to expand on that character, make them more interesting, even though they only appear in one chapter?

I guess it's difficult to say, isn't it? Speaking strictly from my own experiences in the past and in generalities, I would probably get rid of the character if they are really not all THAT important. But if it's a really big story, I would probably say it's okay to have an extra character, just a little point in the flow (unless it is really unnecessary to have them there).

What I actually did once is bring the character in later again, when people least expect it. People may have objections to that style, but that's what I did!

[jbc003]

Lady Galadriel,

Is it possible that another character could fill in for that particular action and then the other character could come in a bit later?

I don't know if that would work but sometimes I've found it doesn't have to be that character and it could be someone else.

JBC

[Fire Fairy]

Hmmm. I'm not exactly sure what to say about that, Lady Galadriel. I guess you could introduce the character by having them save your MC, then explain why. I guess. I can't really say much about that when I don't know what your actual plotline is or the importance of this minor character. Without that knowledge, there isn't very much I can do.

As for having minor characters come back at random times, I guess that's fine, as long as it doesn't detract from the main story. Minor characters are great, don't get me wrong, but if they're too much of a distraction, then they've got to go. Just make sure you keep an eye on them so they don't steal the show from your MC.

[Lady Galadriel]

Yup. I understand. Thanks for the advice you have given me though; I've been so far stuck that absolutely any ideas help at this point!

[FencerforJesus]

I was had a character that had a small role early and dissappeared for a while before coming back and played a critical role in the MC's development. She did absolutely nothing else and I realized that the action she performed later could have been done by someone else and so I had to cut here. But I still had a character I wanted to use, so I saved her for the sequel where she has a much larger role.

But that being said, there are still times where you need a character that does nothing but set up the MC for something else. I have one such character early in my story. You see him a couple times and he dies in the first few chapters. And through that scene (which some have told me brough them to tears), the real plot begins. There are other cases where a character that had little to do with the story itself is there just to sidetrack the MC or give him/her a clue. So not every character will need to be cut, but if that character has little roles, don't give them much character. I personally think that Tom Bombadill in Fellowship of the Ring could be cut out. The only thing that happens that helps the plot is that the hobbits get their weapons, and there are two very long chapters that could be done more briefly.

Now, Lady Galadriel, your idea sounds like the movie Ivanhoe. In there, Ivanhoe is captured attempting to rescue his damsel in distress. In attempt to rescue him, Locksley (Robin Hood) and Little John raise an army to storm the fort where he is held. Of course, Ivanhoe escapes during the battle which leads up to a major showdown with the villians. So here are my suggestions: the battle needs to have significance and not just a mere distractant. That is, don't have the guards look over the walls, say 'oh, nice battle. Let's watch', while unwittingly allowing the hero to escape (via the minor character or other means). That is the cliched approach. Make the battle mean something. If it is close the climax, have the battle plan be set up before the MC is captured or something like that so it would be carried out as well. Or have the battle plan be geared for the MC's rescue. The battle will need to have a purpose or it shouldn't be in there.

That's all for now. Time for me to go to bed. I have an early morning before I go out of town this weekend.

[Lady Galadriel]

Thanks for that interesting advice, FencerforJesus! I'll be sure to use those suggestions.

[Benjamin]

Hey everyone!

I started a Topic called "Writer's World" and FencerforJesus told me that there was this one... I was so surprised to see that this one had the same name! I could hardly believe it! it was such a weird coincidence!


Well to get started in this topic:

I just started my own story like a week ago ( or less ). its been lots of fun working on a story of my own!
I seem to be able to write better the more I read books! so i think i had better start reading more books.......

Well I,m going to head off now

[FencerforJesus]

Now that you are here, welcome to the Writer's World, Benjamin. What kind of story are you working on? Most people here do a fantasy/fiction work, but other like to focus on poetry or historical fiction. If you scanned through the recent posts, I am on the verge of getting a spiritual warfare, fiction novel published. I even courted a publisher earlier in the fall, but God told me to hold up and wait for his timing. My next step at this point is to go to a writer's conference and I am targeting one in May 2010 in Estes Park Colorado. What happens there is in God's hands.

Good luck on your work. If this is your first draft, just write. Don't go through and edit until its perfect. If you do that, you will never finish. Stories can change on you and the first draft is really just getting your ideas on paper. You can always go back and edit to perfection later (regardless if you seek publication or not). That's what I did for my first draft and I actually ended up scrapping almost the whole thing. But I got down what I needed to get my story pointed the direction I wanted it to go and now it is a professional's edit away from publication status. Go for it and have fun while at it.

[Benjamin]

Now that you are here, welcome to the Writer's World, Benjamin. What kind of story are you working on? Most people here do a fantasy/fiction work, but other like to focus on poetry or historical fiction. If you scanned through the recent posts, I am on the verge of getting a spiritual warfare, fiction novel published. I even courted a publisher earlier in the fall, but God told me to hold up and wait for his timing. My next step at this point is to go to a writer's conference and I am targeting one in May 2010 in Estes Park Colorado. What happens there is in God's hands.

Good luck on your work. If this is your first draft, just write. Don't go through and edit until its perfect. If you do that, you will never finish. Stories can change on you and the first draft is really just getting your ideas on paper. You can always go back and edit to perfection later (regardless if you seek publication or not). That's what I did for my first draft and I actually ended up scrapping almost the whole thing. But I got down what I needed to get my story pointed the direction I wanted it to go and now it is a professional's edit away from publication status. Go for it and have fun while at it.

Wow thats so cool about you about to get a book published! What is the name of it? Yes its always the best thing to wait for God's timing even if it does not seem right to you, He is ALWAYS faithful! Its just warms my heart SO much to see another person on fire for God! Its so awesome! God is amazing! Wow I'll be praying for you tonight when I have my prayer time that everything goes well and that He will reveal more a more of Himself to you!

Its a fiction book, I don't know much about writing so i don't know the "real" term you would use other then Fiction
Its my very first Story that i have written and I hope that everything goes well.....

Wow thanks so much for the advice! it helps me so much!! thanks again!

Well I'm off now, May God shower His blessing on you! and Reveal more and more of Himself to you!

~Benjamin

[FencerforJesus]

My novel is titled "Battle Cry: Adventures in the Kingdom of Heaven". It is the first book of at least three in a series I am planning. I'm already nearly 100 pages into my sequel, but had to step back from it for a while due to school. So now I need to get refocused and get as much of it done as I can during my Winter Break (because I hate leaving a project partially finished). The sequel is called "Battle Cry: Expanding the Kingdom of Heaven".

Both go into heavy detail about spiritual warfare and how it can and does affect more than just Christians. The third won't complete a trilogy. Instead, "Battle Cry: Birth of the Kingdom of Heaven" will take us all the way back to the time of Christ for a historical fiction. I plan to use Matthias (the disciple chosen to replace Judas) and do a spiritual warfare POV through his eyes about Jesus' ministry and include a spectacular showdown between Jesus and Satan at the crucifixion. I've got big plans and I look foward to seeing how God's going to use them to have me walk his path.

[Benjamin]

My novel is titled "Battle Cry: Adventures in the Kingdom of Heaven". It is the first book of at least three in a series I am planning. I'm already nearly 100 pages into my sequel, but had to step back from it for a while due to school. So now I need to get refocused and get as much of it done as I can during my Winter Break (because I hate leaving a project partially finished). The sequel is called "Battle Cry: Expanding the Kingdom of Heaven".

Both go into heavy detail about spiritual warfare and how it can and does affect more than just Christians. The third won't complete a trilogy. Instead, "Battle Cry: Birth of the Kingdom of Heaven" will take us all the way back to the time of Christ for a historical fiction. I plan to use Matthias (the disciple chosen to replace Judas) and do a spiritual warfare POV through his eyes about Jesus' ministry and include a spectacular showdown between Jesus and Satan at the crucifixion. I've got big plans and I look foward to seeing how God's going to use them to have me walk his path.

That sounds really cool!! I hope everything goes great for you! I had a good time praying for you last night and that everything would go great with the publishing process!

Any Advice for me and writing is always very welcome! I need all that I can get!

~Benjamin

[Ranger of Llangolenn]

Since this is entitled Writer's World, are aspiring literary agents allowed?
After all these years of indecisiveness I think that's what my career will be.

So, anyone else want to be one? Or an editor at least?