Gladius wrote:My church is a second home to me--I've attended nearly every Sunday since nine months before I was born.
LOL! Great! Charles Billingsley, the worship leader at TRBC, said something similar recently. He was reared in Utah, where all the non-Mormons get together to have church.
Gladius wrote:By the way, what does the '220' in your name stand for? Is it Galatians 2:20 by any chance?
Yes, Galatians 2:20 [and also my birthday]. I've loved this verse for years. Living it, though, has been interesting...
Mother-Music wrote:What are my thoughts on Daniel 3? Well…my first thought is; why do you ask? An important point is being made in the passage, but the point has nothing to do with music. Almost all religions use music in one way or another (or eschew it as evil). One fact that stands out from that passage and life experience is this: music is powerful. And because it is powerful that should clue us in to the facts that 1) God made it, and 2) it ought to be used for Him, and subject to His principles.
I guess my point was that music isn't neutral. It can be used for good and bad, in most religions. Yes, God made music. He loves it! But as you said, it should "be used for Him," to glorify and honor God, "and subject to His principles." This is something you acknowledge but my generation, and some good friends, seem unable to.
Mother-Music wrote:Both Beethoven and Mozart were religious men who dedicated many of their compositions to God. So when you are playing their music, you are playing something that is Christian, at least in name.
Interesting. For Beethoven, I played something called "Not Fur Elise." It begins with the well-known music then segues into a modern [oh what's the word?
].
FYI: thanks for introducing me to some new smilies!
Heart vs. training: some ruminations... [If I'm beating a dead horse, I apologize. This isn't directed toward anyone. It's just my thoughts. You're free to agree, disagree, add something, etc.
]
Cruden’s Concordance defines the heart “as the seat of life or strength; hence it means mind, soul, spirit, or one’s entire emotional nature and understanding. It is also used as the centre or inner part of a thing” [290]. God tells us that the heart is most important. [See my blog post
“Where is your heart???”] It determines our motives. In worship and in lifestyle, God looks at the heart. A job well done is also important. God doesn’t want slipshod work. But if the heart is in the right place, the work shouldn’t be slipshod anyway. If we don’t care about a project or person, we’ll give a half-hearted effort. But if we care a lot, if the project or person consumes us, we’ll put our best foot forward, will we not? Maybe we’re not capable of some things—in the flesh. But in the spirit, there are no limits! Just look at Moses, a stammerer; David, a shepherd boy; Jeremiah, who thought himself a boy; and Peter, a liar and coward. God transformed each person [and many others] so they could do what He had called them to do. What's the cliche? “He equips the called.” And what did God tell Samuel about David’s brothers? “The Lord seeth not as man seeth, for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart” [1 Samuel 16:7].
Some have lots of training. They can perform jobs well. But where is their heart? “Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Thy name? And in Thy name have cast out devils? And in Thy name performed many wonderful works?’ And then will I profess unto them, ‘I never knew you. Depart from Me, ye that work iniquity’” [Matthew 7:22-23]. These people did lots of things for Jesus. But it amounted to nothing. Why? They didn’t know Jesus. Their heart wasn’t in the right place.
I’m sure many of you are familiar with Jane Austen’s
Pride and Prejudice. In the following illustration, I have the 1995 BBC movie adaptation in mind. Many women in this movie can play the piano, some better than others. Elizabeth Bennett, the heroine, is a pure young woman who plays “a little” and doesn’t practice much. Her sister Mary is a snobbish girl who plays better than her sisters, but not as well as others because her family can’t afford the training. Mr. Bingley’s married sister is also snobbish but plays extremely well. And then there’s Georgiana Darcy, the sister of the hero Mr. Darcy. She also plays extremely well but she has a pure, humble heart. Who would you rather hear on the piano? I choose Elizabeth and Georgiana over Mary and the Bingley sister. Why? They have pure hearts, whatever their training.
Through the centuries, many Levites served as singers and musicians in God’s tabernacle and temple. I’m sure they had plenty of training. If they hadn’t, I don’t think they would have served where they did nor done what they did. But their training was just part of their service and devotion to God, recorded in the Psalms. God also looked at their hearts. And He wasn’t pleased with their temple service when they disobeyed Him. The same is true of the Levites whose job was to offer sacrifices because "to obey is better than sacrifice and to hearken than the fat of rams" [1 Samuel 15:22]. “I hate, I despise your feast days, and I will not smell [savor] in your solemn assemblies. Though ye offer me burnt offerings and your meat offerings, I will not accept them, neither will I regard the peace offerings of your fat beasts. Take thou away from me the noise of thy songs, for I will not hear the melody of thy viols” [Amos 5:21-23]. Why was God displeased with them and their service? What was their sin? Idolatry [v. 26]. So God punished Judah by sending them to Babylon as captives, and by destroying the temple service and offerings [Lamentations 2:6-7]. I guess He thought no worship was better than idolatrous worship. What did Judah learn in Babylon? To praise God and seek Him with all their hearts. We see the fruit of that lesson in Ezra and Nehemiah. But even in Malachi, God wasn’t pleased with Israel’s temple worship. They weren’t guilty of idolatry. This time, it was something else. By offering polluted sacrifices [1:7-14] and telling themselves, “What a weariness is it!” [1:13], they were treating God’s name with contempt. God always wants a pure heart that loves and seeks Him. And He wants obedience, the fruit of a pure heart. He wants us to love Him with all our hearts and put Him first. These are most important. If our hearts are pure, God will be pleased with our worship. If they’re not, no matter how perfectly executed a song, God won’t be pleased. Isn’t this what Psalm 51 is about? David offers “sacrifices of righteousness” [v. 19] only after he repents of his sin, knowing God wants “a broken and a contrite heart” [v. 17] instead of a polluted offering, i.e. if David had offered sacrifices without repentance. [See also Isaiah 1:11-15, 29:13, Ezekiel 33:31-32, Hosea 6:6, Micah 6:6-8, Malachi 2:13, Matthew 15:8-9.]
Food for thought ... how often do we pray before we begin a church service? Do we ask God to inhabit the praises of His people? Do we ask God to open His eyes and ears to us and accept our worship, our sacrifices of praise? Do we ask God to open our eyes to see Him, to open our ears to hear His voice? “Enter into His gates with thanksgiving and into His courts with praise. Be thankful unto Him and bless His name” [Psalm 100:4]. How often do we do this? Do we thank and praise God at the beginning of each service for the opportunity to worship Him in spirit and in truth? For the freedom to be in God’s house? For who God is and what He’s done for us—every day? Or do we just jump in, when we begin each service, and sing a song or play an instrument?
Personal vs. corporate worship: some ruminations...I don’t see it as personal vs. corporate. First of all, both are necessary to a healthy spiritual life. One without the other =
Each Wednesday night, I worship with the senior adults at my church. They sing the old songs, which I know and like. They have vibrant spiritual lives. They know suffering and pain. They know what it means to trust in God. And what do they celebrate corporately each week? What God did for them as individuals during the week. Last week we remembered and praised Jesus for His healing touch to each of us. Last night was a little different. The sermon text was from Jeremiah, about God warning a nation, i.e. the US. Still, guess what songs we sang? The first was
“Lily of the Valley”! The text? Song of Solomon 2:1, 5:10, Revelation 22:16. This is who Jesus is to each one of us. Through songs like “Because He lives,” “Something beautiful,” “The steadfast love of the Lord,” “Great is thy faithfulness,” “What a lovely name,”and “He touched me,” we corporately praised God for His character and beauty, and what He’s done for us individually throughout our lives.
Dr. Ransom: how do you define Gnosticism in the context of Christian music?
You're not that fond of “In the Garden,” or at least don't want to hear it overplayed. Well, I don’t like “Who am I,” “Friend of God,” and “My Savior, My God,” just to name a few. There’s so much bad “Christian” music today: some CCM, alternative, rock, etc. “In the Garden” is saintly compared to much of this music! A person has to be really careful what they listen to. And guess what? Except for a certain Gaither video, I cannot remember the last time I heard this song in a church service! Nobody sings it anymore and I wish they would! The old saints aren’t passing down the faith [doctrine, music, the “old paths,” etc] to the younger generations. They’re especially not passing down the church’s rich musical heritage. And my generation is suffering spiritually because of it. The result is a pseudo-Christianity that doesn’t know what worship is, that probably cannot endure temptation or persecution when it comes.
I totally did not intend for you to feel crucified...and my final comment was meant toward anyone who wanted to correct me...not focused at you, and I'm sorry it came across that way. I didn't feel crucified by you, but I certainly see how you could have read it that way. I'm really hoping for a lot of comments on this so that I can maybe come up with some thoughts that are better than my own about it and also explain the phenomenon I've just witnessed.
we would probably experience the same kind of incendiarism your church has. Hopefully we can avoid that. The main focus of our services is the preaching; as to music, the pastor usually chooses two or three hymns that complement the sermon, and the choir sings an anthem that usually complememnts the sermon in some way. The only things that might fall under the category of special music are the prelude, usually played by the organist, and the offertory, usually played by the pianist--that is, myself. We don't have any rules about special music though; we are a small congregation with a LOT of young musicians, and any time someone wants to play or sing they are welcome to do so. We haven't had any problems with innaproppriate music that I know of, but, as I said, we're a small church, and things are certainly different in larger congregations.
], but of a humble mind, heart, and spirit that desires to praise God alone. 
) They just didn’t want to have rules put on that which they didn’t want to do. Pretty immature, from my perspective. Which made me really sad, because I thought differently of them both. I really wish I could talk to them about it, but as I said, I “officially” know nothing, so have no Scriptural basis upon which to approach them. 
