Was that a Sasquatch?!: Cryptozoology & Mythology

[Princess Anna]

Well in semi-modern times we can't even give one common name to an animal (hence the invention of scientific names). But the cougar is also called the puma, panther, catamount, mountain lion among other things... and that's just the english language!!!

Oh, good point! Man, my brain is really not working lately when it comes to stuff like this! Maybe it's because I've been out of school for so long.

And are you sure that cougars, panthers, and mountain lions are all the exact same? I thought that they were really similar, but separate types of big cats. Or that one animal had two names, maybe... and that one of them was another cat. Huh. But like I said... maybe my brain isn't working right.

[wolfloversk]

And are you sure that cougars, panthers, and mountain lions are all the exact same? I thought that they were really similar, but separate types of big cats. Or that one animal had two names, maybe... and that one of them was another cat. Huh. But like I said... maybe my brain isn't working right.

Yep at least species wise they are. Generally the names differ only by region:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cougar

http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/44564.html

[AstroWolfD]

Speaking of cougars... I have to say I have no doubt there is a small population in the Northeast. Seen one myself... and no it was not a cat. Trust me this thing was bigger than most cougars

Nice! I wish I were that lucky. There was a reported black panther sighting in Louisiana late last year as well.
http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2011/11/despite_scientific_skepticism.htmlIf that isn't a panther, I don't know what is.

[Silvan_Haven]

I think the first sighting of a unicorn was in a leter by a Roman general who was visiting Africa.
He wrote about having seen a "uni-corn" or "one horn" on one of his trips on shore.

[Puddleglum]

DiGoRyKiRke. thank you for the reference to st. George. But while I am unfamiliar with the account, I ust ask. Does the story actually describe the dragon as both fire breathing, and flying?

Wolfloversk. Modern cougars are being re-introduced into much of their original range by some States. Though you must be rather pushy in asking in order to get the state agencies to fess up to the program Here in Minnesota there have been several sightings, I know of at least one with a radio tracking collar on.
As to there being the same name for different cats. As I recall there are several sub-species, depending on where in the nation you are. the one in florida for instance is a little smaller, with a slighter body structure. But still goes be the same name. You will find the same with many animals. I have heard hunters down south call the whitetail up here "Jurrasic" due to how big they get
You also mentioned the typical unicorn of myth having a beard, and cloven hoofs. I recall a news story I saw many years back of a couple who claimed to have re-discovered the unicorn by breeding the traits "back" into the goats they owned. I saw the young billy they had, and it did appear to have one horn, but my mother told me it was actually the two horns spiralling around each other. I have searched the web, but have not found any references to this. But, if this is so, the beard, and cloven hoofs would fir the traits of an adult billy goat, and it would not be a streach to mistakenly see a goat as a horse.

Getting back to the original questions for a moment. I think one was about how people would come to believe myths. I just read of a collage that now offers a course on how to survive a zombie apocolyps. I wonder just how many people, who are educated, are actually thinking about this as reality

[DiGoRyKiRkE]

Does the story actually describe the dragon as both fire breathing, and flying?

It is described as being a fiery beast as far as I can tell. I'm not sure about the winged bit. . . there are so many different versions of the story that it's difficult to tell which was the original.



Here is one such goat. . . pretty cool if you ask me

[wolfloversk]

Not to mention... not all dragons have wings...

The Asiatic ones look distinctly different.

[DiGoRyKiRkE]

Yes, the Asian dragons are long snake like creatures. They could have been inspired by the genus of flying snakes (Chrysopelea). That genus is only found in SE Asia, which is the only place where we see long, wingless dragons (which still somehow possess the ability to fly. . . at least in the stories that I've heard)

Typical Chinese Dragon:


Chrysopelea ornata: The Ornate Flying Snake




The bright colours definitely could have contributed to the legends.

[fantasia]

This is a really cool thread, and I've been lurking in it for several days now, but I haven't really known how to participate in it. My knowledge of theoretical creatures is not strong from the zoology/mythology perspective. Most of it knowledge comes from video games followed by fantasy novels. Sooo... here we go:

1. Do you prefer Greek, Nordic, Roman, or Egyptian mythology, or something else entirely? Anything with Dragons.

2. Do you think there could be a logical explanation or even a real creature behind some of the mythical beasts? Why or why not? Lots of real creatures look like dragons. Even cats. (I'm convinced Smaug from The Hobbit was inspired by a cat, but maybe that's because mine pretend to be asleep but watch me with their eyes cracked open a bit.)

3. How do you think most myths and legends start? Cause some poor shepherd failed to save a sheep so he blamed it on a dragon.

4. What's you're favorite myth or legend? Pretty much anything with a dragon.

5. What's you're favorite mythical character or creature? Uh, dragons.

6. Which cryptid is most likely to be a real animal/plant? Which is least likely to be real? I think dragons were real at some point. They just masqueraded around as the slightly less cool dinosaur.

7. If you could see any mythical creature or cryptid, what would it be? Oooh, boy, hmm, well, this is a tough one. Gonna have to go with Dragon.



Sarcasm aside, (and as a serious answer to question 2) it is very amusing to me that the vast majority of mythological creatures are separate parts of two creatures put together to form a new creature. With most Greek and Roman stories, it's two separate animals, but in Egypt stories, it's half human, half animal. Interesting thread and I'm enjoying reading through it, even if I can't participate very much.

[Puddleglum]

DiGoRyKiRke. Truly amazing photo. is there anything about the animal, such as where they may have originated?
I have noticed the same about asian dragons. They are also the only "mythical" creature in the Chines zodiac. This suggests that, at least when the calander was started, there were such creatures. It would be interesting to find some ancient copies to see what the drawings looked like.

[DiGoRyKiRkE]

is there anything about the animal, such as where they may have originated?

I'm a bit confused by your meaning. Do you mean "Where did the snakes originate?" If so, I'm sure Wolf and I could bore y'all to death with stories about these snakes likely started out as an arboreal species, whom natural selection shaped into flying (well, gliding really) serpents. (And I'm not talking over MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF YEARS!!!!!! as evolutionists would have you believe ) If that's what you mean, let me know, and I'd be more than happy to elaborate, but others would likely be bored.

Zoologists rock. . . end of story

And that's a very interesting fact about the Chinese Zodiac. One that I'd never thought of before! Does anybody know how the Chinese Zodiac originated?

[wolfloversk]

I'm a bit confused by your meaning. Do you mean "Where did the snakes originate?" If so, I'm sure Wolf and I could bore y'all to death with stories about these snakes likely started out as an arboreal species, whom natural selection shaped into flying (well, gliding really) serpents. (And I'm not talking over MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF YEARS!!!!!! as evolutionists would have you believe ) If that's what you mean, let me know, and I'd be more than happy to elaborate, but others would likely be bored.

Zoologists rock. . . end of story

Well I think you summed it up pretty well...

I wonder if there's anyway some of the Dragon myths may also involve gliding lizards (genus: Draco)?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gliding_lizard

And yes they were named after Dragons, for obvious reasons

As for how myths end up seeming like miltiple animal parts mashed together... well

Imagine an animal with the legs of a zebra, the body of an antelope, and the head of a giraffe...

Then take a look at the Okapi:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Okapi

Or imagine an egg-laying, furred creature with the tail of a beaver, the bill of a duck, and spines protruding from it's feet...

Then look at the Platypus:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platypus

I think a lot of it is just people's ways of describing things they've never seen before.

[fantasia]

I've always wondered if the original form that Satan took in the Garden of Eden when he tempted Eve was a Dragon. Then when God cursed him he turned into a snake.

[Princess Anna]

Digs and Wolfy, I think Puddleglum was referring to that unicorn looking goat. (great pic, by the way!)

Wow, everyone's posting such interesting links! Can I say once again that this was an outstanding idea for a thread?!

Oh, Watchful One... interesting thought! I never thought of that possibility before! But it sounds like it'd make a great story. (not to mention, if it was real... wow )

[AstroWolfD]

I think a lot of it is just people's ways of describing things they've never seen before.

And that I believe hits the nail right on the head, Wolf.

[wolfloversk]

I've always wondered if the original form that Satan took in the Garden of Eden when he tempted Eve was a Dragon. Then when God cursed him he turned into a snake.

Actually because of this I've wondered if the "Serpent" was actually a legless lizard rather than a snake... but there's no way to confirm that in this life without divine intervention