16 – The Healing of Harms

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16 – The Healing of Harms

Postby Pattertwigs Pal » Jul 16, 2017 5:44 pm

1. Why do you think Lewis included the bit about what centaurs eat?

2. Eustace and Jill both want to go home. Why do you think this is? How is this different from the return of the children in LWW, PC, and VDT?

3. Why did Aslan weep?

4. Why do you think Eustace had to drive the thorn into Aslan’s paw?

5. What is meant by “Even in this world, of course, it is the stupidest children who are most childish and the stupidest grown-ups who are most grownup?” What are some examples?

6. What does Aslan mean when he says, "He has died. Most people have, you know. Even I have. There are very few who haven't?"

7. What do you think about the way the bullies are dealt with?

8. What do you think about the description of the Head and how the situation was handled?

9. Discuss how this chapter should be adapted. (ex. what do you most want to see, what problems do you see, etc.)
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Re: 16 – The Healing of Harms

Postby waggawerewolf27 » Jul 23, 2017 5:05 pm

1. Why do you think Lewis included the bit about what centaurs eat?

Light relief? It makes me wonder about a whole range of other double-identity and composite mythical characters, from werewolves, LOTGK and Melusine, to Fauns, Satyrs, and Minotaurs. Especially the last, when cows have four stomachs anyway, to digest the grass they graze on. Or is all that a lot of um.. er... bull? ;;)

2. Eustace and Jill both want to go home. Why do you think this is? How is this different from the return of the children in LWW, PC, and VDT?

They have completed their mission, but only just in the nick of time. Rilian did get to at least meet his father, who then died. Unfortunately, even the nice bits of Narnia aren't any escape from sorrow and death, so they must go back to their own world and try to deal with what they have there. Besides, it seems that Jill has been really feeling bad about a number of issues, from Eustace falling over the cliff, to messing up three of the signs to her bickering with Eustace.

I think that Eustace and Jill, unlike the return of the children in the previous books, went to Narnia intentionally, having asked, and were therefore ready to return, whereas on the other occasions the children who arrived in Narnia did so unintentionally and went back to reality when their time was up. A lot, too, depends on one's definition of home.

3. Why did Aslan weep?

Why wouldn't Aslan weep for Caspian, who had suffered so much because of LOTGK's actions? Besides, I think that Aslan really loved Caspian, the boy king who genuinely loved and respected him.

4. Why do you think Eustace had to drive the thorn into Aslan’s paw?

There is a story called Androcles and the Lion, I think it was, where the hero pulls a thorn out of a lion's paw, for which the Lion remained grateful. Maybe Eustace's use of the thorn is in reference to that particular story. It may be the first really Christian reference in the book, where Caspian is being washed of his living misdeeds, now he has died, because of the sacrifice Aslan made on the Stone Table on behalf of Edmund.

5. What is meant by “Even in this world, of course, it is the stupidest children who are most childish and the stupidest grown-ups who are most grownup?” What are some examples?

I think what is meant is that the most childish of children in a particular age group are the ones who tend to lack the mental agility which would allow them to progress into adulthood, and that the same might be said of older folk who forget what it was like to be a child. I can't think of any examples off hand. I am also quite aware of my own status as being sometimes a bit of a senior delinquent. :(

6. What does Aslan mean when he says, "He has died. Most people have, you know. Even I have. There are very few who haven't?"

C.S.Lewis finished his CON in 1956, and although the population of the world has increased exponentially, many people have passed away since that date, including himself. The oldest living person is probably about 110 years old, and there are more centenarians around than there used to be. However, all the people who have proceeded before us have passed away apart from those who are alive at the moment, and the usual life span is still three score and ten or little better. However many people who are alive today, the combined number of people who have ever lived would surely exceed that number, maybe by many times. At least that is what I think Aslan means.

7. What do you think about the way the bullies are dealt with?

When C.S.Lewis first wrote CON it was routine for badly misbehaving children to get the cane at school or the strap at home. :ymblushing: Yes, me, as a child. This method of disciplining children has long been watered down so that these days even smacking one's own children in public makes one liable as a parent of being reported to authorities for child abuse. But although such measures haven't stopped children behaving badly towards each other, and although I might feel the way the Experiment House bullies were dealt with was richly deserved, I would be surprised indeed if any graphic representation shows teenagers getting hit by the flats of swords and riding crops. I think that all we are ever likely to see is the wall collapsing, a view of Aslan's back, lying in the gap, and the bullies running away from a perception of armed and armoured figures.

8. What do you think about the description of the Head and how the situation was handled?

Police? Enquiries? The head going to the Houses of Parliament? All too likely. =)) And yes I am a resident of a Commonweath country, just like C.S.Lewis was. I found this last bit of SC a bit of rather gentle political satire. I wonder what residents of the United States of America would make of this bit? :D Or would you all say "Only in UK/Australia/etc"? 8-| :D

9. Discuss how this chapter should be adapted. (ex. what do you most want to see, what problems do you see, etc.)

As Ryadian has been pointing out, pacing could be an issue to ensure the main points made in this chapter are covered adequately. I don't expect to see much of the centaurs - the BBC TV version only shows one carrying two children, in the distance, in one brief shot, with no discussion whatever of how they came to be riding it. However, that production did resurrect King Caspian quite nicely, even though the final result was the PC Caspian and not Samuel West of BBC's TV version of VDT who I might have preferred. The voice of the BBC audio version was someone else again, and had a rather irritatingly "heroic" sort of voice, straight out of Christmas pantomimes. I also didn't like the seeming lift mechanism used to allow Caspian and Aslan's farewell to be included. Much of the remainder of this chapter in the book was otherwise left out of that production.

In this new SC I'd very much like to see the centaurs even if we only get a glimpse of their collecting Jill and Eustace and their eventual attendance at Cair Paravel when Caspian meets his son again. And as well as the chastisement of the bullies I'd like to see something of the aftermath. Maybe, like the BBC audio disk with Jill and Eustace telling his cousins and the Professor how events at Experiment House panned out. Overall, when I see this film being made I'd like to think it is an improvement on what has been done with SC previously.
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Re: 16 – The Healing of Harms

Postby Ryadian » Jul 27, 2017 11:55 am

1. Why do you think Lewis included the bit about what centaurs eat?I wonder if it was a question that a fan had asked him, or if it was just a question that he'd been musing over, and he came to an answer and decided to include it in the book. I think it was a bit of world-building, perhaps helping to make the centaurs feel a bit more real so that we'd get a better sense of why it was such an honor for Eustace and Jill to get to ride them.

The image of a centaur grazing like a horse does, though, is quite an amusing one. ;))


2. Eustace and Jill both want to go home. Why do you think this is? How is this different from the return of the children in LWW, PC, and VDT?
I think this is the first time any of the children from any of the stories have actually witnessed the death of a close friend (Reepicheep leaving to sail to Aslan's Country is as close as we've ever gotten). The previous times they've gone home, the fact that they were leaving was the only reason why the occasion was sad. After such a grueling adventure, only for the King to die as soon as their mission is complete, could easily make them homesick.

3. Why did Aslan weep?
Since Aslan knows full well that Caspian is about to be revived in his country, where he truly belongs, I think he's weeping on behalf of Rilian and the rest of the Narnians, and he's empathizing with those who will not see Caspian again for quite some time.

wagga wrote:Why wouldn't Aslan weep for Caspian, who had suffered so much because of LOTGK's actions? Besides, I think that Aslan really loved Caspian, the boy king who genuinely loved and respected him.

I hadn't even thought of that. Perhaps he's weeping because he knows that Caspian will never get to truly reunite with his son until Rilian comes to Aslan's Country.

4. Why do you think Eustace had to drive the thorn into Aslan’s paw?
It would seem that in Aslan's country, much like in real-world Christian theology, resurrection is accomplished through blood - in this case, Aslan's, and so some of his blood was required. I suspect Eustace had to do it since it would've been quite a trick for Aslan to do it to himself, and between Jill and Eustace, I simply think it would be easier for Eustace. It's also a final act of obedience on Eustace's part.

5. What is meant by “Even in this world, of course, it is the stupidest children who are most childish and the stupidest grown-ups who are most grownup?” What are some examples?
I get the children's side of it, but I really don't understand the grownup side. ;)) Unless he means stereotypically grown up, since there are some attributes (such as confidence to the point of arrogance) which society sometimes values as an attribute of adults, but it doesn't necessarily indicate actual maturity.

6. What does Aslan mean when he says, "He has died. Most people have, you know. Even I have. There are very few who haven't?"
Like wagga said, more people in the history of the world - or worlds - have died than are currently alive, and that'd basically be true for any world that has had a couple of generations behind it. But especially with Aslan's Country as an established afterlife, people don't stop existing as people just because they have died.

7. What do you think about the way the bullies are dealt with?I have to admit, it's a fantasy of mine to do the same thing to bullies. ;)) It is, perhaps, not always the best approach, but it's certainly cathartic to think about bullies being forced into a situation where they are the powerless ones, especially when they feel afraid for their lives. I don't know if it'd make them all change their ways entirely, but I have to believe they'd at least be too scared to bully others for a while.

8. What do you think about the description of the Head and how the situation was handled?
Ahhh, jokes about politicians. Never ceases to provide a good laugh. ;)) It's a nice commentary on bureaucracy.

9. Discuss how this chapter should be adapted. (ex. what do you most want to see, what problems do you see, etc.)
I wouldn't mind if they extended the epilogue in Narnia a little bit. We get whisked away so quickly, I wouldn't mind seeing a bit more of what happens when Rilian becomes king.
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Re: 16 – The Healing of Harms

Postby Hwinning » Sep 07, 2017 6:47 pm

1. Why do you think Lewis included the bit about what centaurs eat?

As Ryadian said, probably for world-building.

7. What do you think about the way the bullies are dealt with?

As David Magee said, SC has a fable-like quality to it. I think that especially applies to this scene because everything just fell into place. The movie won't be like this. It would probably be similar to wagga's description.

9. Discuss how this chapter should be adapted. (ex. what do you most want to see, what problems do you see, etc.)

Even though I know that it probably won't happen, I just really want to see Jill and Eustace run after the bullies with their swords and riding crops as the bullies and the Head scream in terror and run away. I really want to see them cheekily grin at each other and smile goodbye to Caspian and Aslan, as if to say "I know we'll meet again so it's not really goodbye" as the door swings shut, the last glimmer of golden light dissolves, and credits roll.
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