Ramandu cut?

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Re: Ramandu cut?

Postby Liberty Hoffman » Oct 30, 2010 12:51 pm

^^ yeah, me too! maybe he'll come out after Lilliandil greets them.....? :-\ :) :ymhug:
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Re: Ramandu cut?

Postby DamselJillPole » Oct 30, 2010 1:31 pm

I don't think Ramandu will come out when Lilliandil greets the travelers. Lilliandil is the one who tells them about the DI, etc. She'll probably point to a star and say "I am the daughter of that star Ramandu"

With the way things are looking in all the spoilers so far for Ramandu Island I doubt we'll see him, unless he comes at the very end when Caspian goes back to Ramandu Island.
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Re: Ramandu cut?

Postby Liberty Hoffman » Oct 31, 2010 4:10 pm

theory!!!!!
I think that Douglas Gresham is going to be Ramundu and that's why they have kept him under wraps :D
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Re: Ramandu cut?

Postby aragorn2 » Oct 31, 2010 4:38 pm

That would be awesome.
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Re: Ramandu cut?

Postby Liberty Hoffman » Nov 01, 2010 11:36 am

^^ yes it would! :D I kinda hope I'm right!
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Re: Ramandu cut?

Postby DamselJillPole » Nov 01, 2010 1:58 pm

Either Douglas is Ramandu or he's Uncle Harold. I can see Uncle Harold as to he actually makes an appearance. IDK :-\
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Re: Ramandu cut?

Postby Movie Aristotle » Nov 01, 2010 9:44 pm

Reasons I think Ramandu is featured in the movie version of The Voyage of the Dawn Treader:

1. Ramandu is in the book. The burden of proof is on the people who believe that Ramandu has been cut from the movie. So far we know that everyone else from the book is also in the movie. They could have combined Ramandu & Liliandil, but then again, they also could have combined Pug & Gumpas, but didn’t. There really isn’t a good reason to believe that Ramandu has been cut from the film, except for the fact that we haven’t spotted him in the trailers and he isn’t listed on IMDB. But we haven’t seen Alberta in the trailers, nor is she on IMDB, yet we know that she will be in the film.

2. I don’t see a practical reason for them cutting out a beloved character from the best loved novel in the Narnia series.

3. I can’t think of a reason why they’d want to hide the fact that they’d cut Ramandu from the movie. Right now the production isn’t telling us whether he’ll be in the film or not. If he is in the film, I can think of several reasons why they’d want to keep him under wraps. On the other hand, I can think of no reason to hide it if he will not appear in the film.

4. If Ramandu is cut, then they’d have to explain why Liliandil is living alone on an island. Hermitesses are a bit uncommon. Why would she be living there or, if she isn’t living there, why does she only appear to the Dawn Treader crew on that island? If she is not there taking care of her aged father, then they have a bit of explaining to do.

5. Liliandil introduces herself as the “Daughter of Ramandu,” which begs the question: “Who is Ramandu?” Certainly Ramandu himself will need to appear onscreen to answer that question, (though not necessarily in human form).

6. The production (including the website) has named the island where they meet Liliandil “Ramandu’s Island,” which begs the question, “Who is Ramandu?” Certainly Ramandu himself will need to appear onscreen to answer that question, or else people will need to be pointed to the books. It is true that “Dragon Isle” also appears on Narnia.com, even though it is not in the film, and there is no guarantee that the words “Ramandu’s Island” will ever be uttered onscreen, but they might have renamed the island for the website like they did with the Island of the Duffers (Magician’s Island) and Deathwater (they decided to stick with the rejected name of Goldwater). The fact that they didn’t rename Ramandu’s Island is significant.

7. On the “Ramandu’s Island” page of Narnia.com you can click on a doorway behind Aslan’s Table and the following passage appears: “Near the edge of the world, old Ramandu watches. How long has he been observing the events of this world, and exactly how far does his gaze extend?” If Ramandu only appears in the film as a star in the sky, why would you need to click on the doorway? Wouldn’t it make more sense for this passage to appear when you click on the stars in the upper right-hand corner? Or since this passage speaks of the edge of the world, wouldn’t it be better to place it in the ocean on the right side of the page? -But instead you must click on the doorway. And where does Ramandu first appear in the book? Through a doorway beyond Aslan’s Table.

8. The passage mentioned in #7 not only refers to Ramandu, it describes him DOING something. Why would you mention a person doing something on the website if he is not also going to do it in the film? Ramandu evidently is not passive in this fight to save Narnia. He is a guard or watchmen. He watches.

9. How would they do a wedding without him? According to a recent quote from Apted, he finds two things that happen between VDT and SC to be very important: The Lady of the Green Kirtle builds an underground army, and Liliandil and Caspian get married. We know that Apted wanted to add something(s) from this time period into the movie version of VDT. It is therefore quite possible that the wedding of Liliandil to Caspian will be featured in the film. If Ramandu does not come to the wedding (or at least give his consent to the marriage) then what does this say about Liliandil? Does she elope?

10. I can think of one very good reason for why the studio is keeping quiet about Ramandu. He might be a big name actor.
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Re: Ramandu cut?

Postby aragorn2 » Nov 02, 2010 6:05 am

1. Ramandu is in the book. The burden of proof is on the people who believe that Ramandu has been cut from the movie. So far we know that everyone else from the book is also in the movie. They could have combined Ramandu & Liliandil, but then again, they also could have combined Pug & Gumpas, but didn’t. There really isn’t a good reason to believe that Ramandu has been cut from the film, except for the fact that we haven’t spotted him in the trailers and he isn’t listed on IMDB. But we haven’t seen Alberta in the trailers, nor is she on IMDB, yet we know that she will be in the film.


Well the reason we think he is cut because there is no casting on him and if Lilliandu is a star he is totally unneeded.

2. I don’t see a practical reason for them cutting out a beloved character from the best loved novel in the Narnia series.


Well they have time constraints and Lilliandu is taking his place in the movie(That is how all the trailers and spoilers seem to be pointing).

3. I can’t think of a reason why they’d want to hide the fact that they’d cut Ramandu from the movie. Right now the production isn’t telling us whether he’ll be in the film or not. If he is in the film, I can think of several reasons why they’d want to keep him under wraps. On the other hand, I can think of no reason to hide it if he will not appear in the film.


the question is why they would tell us, there is going to be a lot of stuff from the book that won't be in the movie that they are not telling us.


4. If Ramandu is cut, then they’d have to explain why Liliandil is living alone on an island. Hermitesses are a bit uncommon. Why would she be living there or, if she isn’t living there, why does she only appear to the Dawn Treader crew on that island? If she is not there taking care of her aged father, then they have a bit of explaining to do.


Lilliandu is not living alone on the island, she is a star and comes down to greet them

5. Liliandil introduces herself as the “Daughter of Ramandu,” which begs the question: “Who is Ramandu?” Certainly Ramandu himself will need to appear onscreen to answer that question, (though not necessarily in human form).


Does that happen in the movie? and if so she could just point him out in the sky or something like that.

6. The production (including the website) has named the island where they meet Liliandil “Ramandu’s Island,” which begs the question, “Who is Ramandu?” Certainly Ramandu himself will need to appear onscreen to answer that question, or else people will need to be pointed to the books. It is true that “Dragon Isle” also appears on Narnia.com, even though it is not in the film, and there is no guarantee that the words “Ramandu’s Island” will ever be uttered onscreen, but they might have renamed the island for the website like they did with the Island of the Duffers (Magician’s Island) and Deathwater (they decided to stick with the rejected name of Goldwater). The fact that they didn’t rename Ramandu’s Island is significant.


Who says it will be named in the movie? If he isn't in the movie then they would just call it what it was in the books so the fans would know what it was.


8. The passage mentioned in #7 not only refers to Ramandu, it describes him DOING something. Why would you mention a person doing something on the website if he is not also going to do it in the film? Ramandu evidently is not passive in this fight to save Narnia. He is a guard or watchmen. He watches


Lilliandu can say that she was sent by him.


9. How would they do a wedding without him? According to a recent quote from Apted, he finds two things that happen between VDT and SC to be very important: The Lady of the Green Kirtle builds an underground army, and Liliandil and Caspian get married. We know that Apted wanted to add something(s) from this time period into the movie version of VDT. It is therefore quite possible that the wedding of Liliandil to Caspian will be featured in the film. If Ramandu does not come to the wedding (or at least give his consent to the marriage) then what does this say about Liliandil? Does she elope?


They might not even show the wedding and if they do, this is the 21st century, who asks their father's permission to marry any more. Besides it will probably end like the others right after the Pevensies get home.


10. I can think of one very good reason for why the studio is keeping quiet about Ramandu. He might be a big name actor.


That would be the only reason I would think he was still in the movie, like if Doug Gresham played him. But if he was a big name actor they would probably want to publicize it.

I am not saying he won't be in the movie I am just pointing out that most of the evidence is pointing that way.
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Re: Ramandu cut?

Postby Movie Aristotle » Nov 02, 2010 11:14 pm

aragorn2 wrote:Well the reason we think he is cut because there is no casting on him and if Lilliandu is a star he is totally unneeded.


I don't see why Ramandu would be unnecessary if Liliandil is a star. What's that got to do with it? Coriakin is also a star but Lewis still thought Ramandu was necessary. Ramandu is more than just a star, he is an instructor who points the travelers unto the last leg of their journey.

I agree that the fact that we've heard no word on casting of Ramandu is evidence for the theory that Ramandu is cut, but the burden of proof is still on you. I don't really need to prove that Ramandu is in the film. You have to prove that he's not. That's why this topic is in the "Rumors" section.

Movie Aristotle wrote:2. I don’t see a practical reason for them cutting out a beloved character from the best loved novel in the Narnia series.


Well they have time constraints and Lilliandu is taking his place in the movie(That is how all the trailers and spoilers seem to be pointing).


They have no time constraints. They get to choose how long the movie will be, and, in fact, preliminary reports show that this film will be drastically shorter than the first two. Besides, cutting out Ramandu wouldn't save them much time. In fact, it could be argued that cutting out Ramandu would add to the running time, since other characters would have to take his place, and/or new explanations would have to be made.

We have no evidence that directly points to Liliandil taking Ramandu's place.

Movie Aristotle wrote:3. I can’t think of a reason why they’d want to hide the fact that they’d cut Ramandu from the movie. Right now the production isn’t telling us whether he’ll be in the film or not. If he is in the film, I can think of several reasons why they’d want to keep him under wraps. On the other hand, I can think of no reason to hide it if he will not appear in the film.


the question is why they would tell us, there is going to be a lot of stuff from the book that won't be in the movie that they are not telling us.


Of course they would tell us. Tony Nixon was asked pretty straightforwardly about Ramandu appearing in the film and he danced around the question like a ballerina. Rather than answering the question he avoided it. There is a difference between not mentioning something and keeping it a secret. Sure a lot of stuff from the book won't be in the movie and we can't get mad at the production because they forgot to mention that a small detail was cut from the movie. But Ramandu is a BIG detail, he is an entire character, and they are keeping his appearing (or not appearing) in the film a secret. It isn't that they've forgotten to mention him, they simply won't tell us. There must be a reason that they won't tell us. What could it be?

Lilliandu is not living alone on the island, she is a star and comes down to greet them


We don't know whether she is living alone on the island or not, but somebody is living on the island. Take a look a the "Ramandu's Island" page of Narnia.com. Beyond Aslan's Table is a door with another table inside. Somebody lives there. Logic assumes that it is either Liliandil or Ramandu or both.

Movie Aristotle wrote:5. Liliandil introduces herself as the “Daughter of Ramandu,” which begs the question: “Who is Ramandu?” Certainly Ramandu himself will need to appear onscreen to answer that question, (though not necessarily in human form).


Does that happen in the movie? and if so she could just point him out in the sky or something like that.


Yes, she introduces herself as the "Daughter of Ramandu" in the movie. (And I did say that this bit of evidence does not necessarily mean he would be in human form, meaning that he might appear as a star in the sky.)

Who says it will be named in the movie? If he isn't in the movie then they would just call it what it was in the books so the fans would know what it was.


Read my post again. In it I admitted that "there is no guarantee that the words “Ramandu’s Island” will ever be uttered onscreen".

Lilliandu can say that she was sent by him.


Touche. But still, why would you choose not to show an active participant in the plot? If Ramandu really is watching things, and if he is mentioned and/or if he is important enough that Liliandil is sent by him, why (from a movie-maker's perspective) would you keep this character out of the film? Can you think of any movie where a named and active participant in the plot is never shown or heard?

They might not even show the wedding...


Like I said, Apted, the director of the movie, thinks that the marriage is very important, and hints that it is too important to be left as exposition in The Silver Chair. You're right, the wedding might not be in the film, but it certainly could be. It is in the book. The burden of proof is on you to show that it will not be in the film.

...and if they do, this is the 21st century, who asks their father's permission to marry any more.


/:) Seriously? Like, just about everybody. Meeting the parents is a very, VERY important part of any engagement. Marrying somebody against your parents' will can lead to devastating relational consequences.

Also, C.S. Lewis didn't live in the 21st century, he lived in the 20th century. Liliandil lives in 24th century Narnia, which is an ENTIRELY different culture altogether, based on the chivalrous middle ages of Earth, in which people certainly did ask for permission to marry. But yes, people in 21st century Earth still do ask for parental approval before marriage.

I mean, come on. Is it likely that Liliandil is going to pack up, get married and move halfway across the world without consulting her father first? She has to at least mention it to him. What else is she going to do? Leave a note on the fridge? =)) "Dear Dad, I love you very much, but a King washed up on the Island while you were gone and I decided to marry him. I know this is sudden, but he's leaving for the other end of the world and I had to accept quickly. I know we'll never see each other again, so I wanted to leave you a note to say thanks for bringing me up right. I'll remember you every time I look into the night sky. Love, Lili." :p

Besides it will probably end like the others right after the Pevensies get home.


Frankly, none of us knows how the movie will end. There really isn't anything more probable about your theory than any other. Besides, both the LWW and PC books also ended once the Pevencies got home. VDT (the book) continues for a bit after the Pevencies arrive in England.

Movie Aristotle wrote:10. I can think of one very good reason for why the studio is keeping quiet about Ramandu. He might be a big name actor.


That would be the only reason I would think he was still in the movie, like if Doug Gresham played him. But if he was a big name actor they would probably want to publicize it.


I highly doubt Mr. Gresham would be playing Ramandu. He's hardly what I'd call a big name actor. Besides, I think Uncle Harold would be a much better role for him. ;)

I am not saying he won't be in the movie I am just pointing out that most of the evidence is pointing that way.


Again, the only evidence that we have that he might not be in the film is the fact that we haven't gotten a casting announcement yet. I hope I've done a good job of showing that most of the evidence is actually pointing towards Ramandu appearing in the film, either in star form or human form.
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Re: Ramandu cut?

Postby aragorn2 » Nov 03, 2010 5:01 am

I don't do all that stuff on Narnia.com but from what I have seen on here, ,there has been no direct mention of Ramandu being in the movie in all the screenings, storybooks, classroom activities, pictures and plus he hasnot been cast.
I don't see why they would keep him under the wraps if he is going to be in the movie, unless there is some big surprise.

...and if they do, this is the 21st century, who asks their father's permission to marry any more.



/:) Seriously? Like, just about everybody. Meeting the parents is a very, VERY important part of any engagement. Marrying somebody against your parents' will can lead to devastating relational consequences.


That was kind of a joke.
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Re: Ramandu cut?

Postby Dinode » Nov 04, 2010 8:49 pm

Movie Aristotle wrote:I mean, come on. Is it likely that Liliandil is going to pack up, get married and move halfway across the world without consulting her father first? She has to at least mention it to him. What else is she going to do? Leave a note on the fridge? =)) "Dear Dad, I love you very much, but a King washed up on the Island while you were gone and I decided to marry him. I know this is sudden, but he's leaving for the other end of the world and I had to accept quickly. I know we'll never see each other again, so I wanted to leave you a note to say thanks for bringing me up right. I'll remember you every time I look into the night sky. Love, Lili." :p

=)) =)) =)) =)) =)) =)) =)) =)) =)) =)) =)) =)) =)) I just love watching this debate between you two. Don't stop now, keep going! ;;)
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Re: Ramandu cut?

Postby Liberty Hoffman » Nov 05, 2010 2:00 pm

http://robertvelarde.blogspot.com/2010/ ... eader.html

^^ check this out.....he says Ramundu isn't in the movie......
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Re: Ramandu cut?

Postby aragorn2 » Nov 05, 2010 2:15 pm

He also says Gumpas isn't there either, but there are pictures of him in costume, I wonder


To the MODS is it alright to discuss whether Gumpas is in the movie on this thread?
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Re: Ramandu cut?

Postby coracle » Nov 06, 2010 12:20 pm

This thread is specifically about Ramandu, but if you go to this thread you can talk about Gumpas AND Ramandu!
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Re: Ramandu cut?

Postby Malfhok » Nov 08, 2010 3:00 pm

But Ramandu is mentioned on the now-live Ramandu's Island section of the VDT Web site!

Near the edge of the world, Old Ramandu watches. How long has he been observing the events of this world, and exactly how far does his gaze extend?

Does this mean he's in the movie?
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Re: Ramandu cut?

Postby MinotaurforAslan » Nov 09, 2010 3:19 am

Malfhok wrote:But Ramandu is mentioned on the now-live Ramandu's Island section of the VDT Web site!

Near the edge of the world, Old Ramandu watches. How long has he been observing the events of this world, and exactly how far does his gaze extend?

Does this mean he's in the movie?


No, it doesn't. The designers of the VDT website have shamelessly stole biographies of the Narnian characters from online fan-created encyclopedias of Narnia. (Just take a look at the one of Lucy, it even reveals her final fate in TLB. Why would you ever put that on the VDT website, haha.)

They probably call it Ramandu's Island on the VDT Website because they have nothing else to call it. In a movie, you can get away with not naming an island because you can just show it.
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