Uncle Andrew and Digory Kirke

[DiGoRyKiRkE]

Yesterday, I started listening to The Magician's Nephew audiobook (the one by Kenneth Brannagh) for the umpteenth time, and I stumbled across a comparison that I'd never thought of before.

If you go through The Chronicles and look for older, single, male, human characters, there are really only two that we get to see - Uncle Andrew and Digory. I find it interesting that Lewis, who was a single man for most of his adult life, would not have included more single adult male characters into his series (although that is not the main point of this thread).

The two characters fitting this criteria also happen to be closely related to each other, and I think that their stories parallel each other in a way (certainly if one merely looks at the linear progression of the plot) but while both of them were raised with a similar set of morals, one turned out to be the greedy, cunning, proud character of Uncle Andrew, while Digory turned out to be far more logical, understanding, and compassionate.

And yet, if you look at their experiences, Digory's is far worse than that of Uncle Andrew. We don't see a lot of Andrew's youth; save for the Mrs. Lefay backstory, we really get no further history of his childhood. Digory's grown up without a father, had his life ripped out from underneath him, and has to face the impending death of his mother.

I think it really amplifies the message of individual choices that are found in The Magician's Nephew. I think it is very powerful that we see a young Andrew who (as far as we know) had everything going for him, and yet his bad decisions (starting with breaking that promise to Mrs. Lefay) led him to having the most miserable, empty, shallow life of any other human character we see in the Chronicles (again, my opinion). All the while, this is contrasted to Digory, who had everything going against him. Digory certainly didn't do everything right (in the story we see him fight with Polly several times, forcibly overpower her, lie, etc...) and yet when the time comes for his "big decision" dealing with the Apple, he makes the right choice, and it sets his life on a different track that ultimately leads to the jolly old Professor that we see in The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe.

What do you guys think of this?

[waggawerewolf27]

If you go through The Chronicles and look for older, single, male, human characters, there are really only two that we get to see - Uncle Andrew and Digory. I find it interesting that Lewis, who was a single man for most of his adult life, would not have included more single adult male characters into his series (although that is not the main point of this thread).

I hear what you say, and no, it isn't the main point of the thread that Digory and his Uncle Andrew were never married, and that they remained the only single men in the entire series that you say you are aware of. Though you might also have pointed out that Polly and Digory's Aunt Letitia (Letty) also seemed unmarried, that we know of, for the purposes of the series, just like the men. Also there were others in the series that do not 'marry' to our knowledge, including Shift, six of the seven missing lords, Governor Gumpas, Jadis, her sister, Puzzle the donkey, many of the dwarfs, etc. Maybe these characters, human or not, had married, or maybe they didn't, and we don't know because it was irrelevant to the story.

Like stingy, hardfisted Arsheesh, who claimed he couldn't afford a wife, and didn't really want to afford Shasta, either, Anradin and Rishda Tarkaan were definitely men, but do we know if they married either? The Calormene culture suggests that in such cases it was probably just as well that such characters didn't marry - imagine how they would have treated their partners?

On the other hand, I do think that it still matters very much that Digory and his uncle didn't get married because in both cases they represented the past and what men made of themselves and their lives. Both uncle and nephew, significantly, were impressed by Rudyard Kipling's idea that 'he goes farthest who travels alone'. But is that true? Rudyard Kipling, in his poem, seemed to be suggesting that marrying is an impediment to both men's choices and their chances at success, ie a 'high and lonely destiny'. And I can't help thinking that the likes of Uncle Andrew, at any rate, would have agreed with him.

Uncle Andrew is almost the archetypal 19th century mad scientist, portrayed by H.G.Wells, Jules Verne and others, who were fascinated with inventions, industrialisation and 'progress', to be too interested in other people, or how to get along with them. Just like Jadis, Uncle Andrew decides at some point that 'he has a high and lonely destiny' which makes him more important than those around him, the ordinary people who have to work, including women and children, who, in the past, were largely dependent on their menfolk's incomes or lack of it.

Uncle Andrew, in his disregard for living things, made himself unable to hear animals talk, because of how he regarded animals, valued progress for the money he could make, and considered beneath him other people, some of whom he really ought to have had more concern for. Take his sisters, one of whom was practically supporting him though she had no obligation to do so, other than as a family member. Digory, at various points in the novel, seemed just as likely to end up with similar attitudes, towards Polly, at any rate, even though he grieves for his mother, and has some conscience about how Polly had been transported away from London. Digory, too, was fairly lofty about the abilities of girls in the Hall of Statues in Charn, and he had been impressed, despite himself, by Uncle Andrew's 'high and lonely destiny' claims. But he is saved when he meets Aslan and is shamed into doing the right thing, not only because of his dying mother.

In LWW, we see how Professor Kirk acts to protect Lucy, who has found Narnia, from her siblings. Would the Digory Kirk we see in MN behave so protectively of Lucy had he not gone to Narnia, himself?

[shastastwin]

While there are a few other adult men who grow to old age without marrying (the most prominent I can think of is the Hermit of the Southern Marches), Uncle Andrew and Digory are the only two major characters I can think of who fit these criteria. That said, the contrast between the two is stark. I think it's safe to say that Digory becomes Professor Kirke at least partially out of the desire to not become his uncle.

In LWW, we see how Professor Kirk acts to protect Lucy, who has found Narnia, from her siblings. Would the Digory Kirk we see in MN behave so protectively of Lucy had he not gone to Narnia, himself?

Well, that's a question we can't really answer, since the adult Digory is obviously going to have been affected by what happened in his childhood. It is probable that he wouldn't have become as kind and logical if he had not been to Narnia (and his mother had died, and Uncle Andrew had more influence, etc.), but then again, one never knows for sure.

Another thing to consider about these two is Andrew's relationship with his godmother. Her name is Lefay, obviously meant to conjure up ideas of Morgan(a) LeFay from Arthurian legend. Andrew seems to speak of her with some respect, but his immediate oathbreaking after her death makes his relationship with her seem a bit suspect. (Though I suppose one could also argue that she elicited such a promise from him knowing he would be more likely to experiment with the dust because of that. This is (potentially) Morgan LeFay. She can be devious that way.) I wonder what Andrew would have become if he had made the right decision there or if his relationship with Mrs. Lefay had been different.

[DiGoRyKiRkE]

Mrs. Lefay was also noted for making very poor choices that ended up putting her in prison. . . Not the best role model for a young, impressionable Uncle Andrew.

[waggawerewolf27]

And since Mrs LeFay was obviously mortal, and since Mrs Lefay's husband might possibly have been a descendant of Morgana LeFay to have had possession of, or even knowledge of, that box of dirt in the first place, how could she claim to be a fairy godmother? And why was she Uncle Andrew's godmother, in particular, and not someone who might have influenced his two sisters, since you think of her as a possible role model?

Yes, she made poor choices, to end up in prison. Very possibly she made poor choices to get involved with the mysterious powder. But was it just her? Or did it have something to do with her very missing husband? And was the aforesaid husband the one who really started the rot? That really makes more sense to me, since as a rule it is men who give boys their role models, rather than women, especially once Mrs LeFay went to prison, a much stronger disgrace for a woman.

In disobeying the instructions she gave, no matter how curious he was, goes to show that he thought of her, in much the same way he thought of other women, including his sisters. That is to say, very likely, in a "silly old bat, what would she know" sort of way. Obviously, Uncle Andrew thought of rules as something beneath him, something only working men, women and children need bother about.

Interesting that Digory did choose to become a working man, himself, but as a teacher and professor. Presumably when his father came home from India, and inherited that country place, he had enough income, at least initially, not to have to learn to earn a living. Unlike the selfish Uncle Andrew, who thought he could live as a 19th century gentleman, at his sister's expense. But don't you think it is oddly similar how Mrs Macready tended to treat Professor Kirk, to how Aunt Letitia treated Uncle Andrew?

[The Rose-Tree Dryad]

That's a very interesting observation, DiGs.

In some ways, I'd say that Andrew Ketterley and Digory Kirke are rather similar, personality-wise... they both have trouble with letting their curiosity get the best of them. Andrew was happy to let other people take the brunt of his experiments, and Digory physically forced Polly to go along with his choice of ringing the bell. Digory was initially impressed with Uncle Andrew's argument about having a "high and lonely" destiny, before remembering the ugly look on his face a few minutes prior. Obviously, Uncle Andrew is a much worse person than Digory, but you do wonder if there is a universe, or a set of circumstances, that could have resulted in Digory ended up like his uncle. It seems quite possible to me.

Other people have brought up Mrs. Lefay and her influence on Andrew Ketterley. While one of Digory's primary influences was his mother (he thought of her when Jadis was tempting him to steal the apple, saying that she wouldn't like it), Andrew's primary influence seemed to be Mrs. Lefay. She certainly wasn't a very good role model, so far as we can tell.

However, I think perhaps an even greater influence upon Digory may have been Uncle Andrew himself. In knowing Uncle Andrew, he saw what happened to people who lived their lives in such a way and treated other people like objects in the quest for knowledge. Andrew Ketterley's descent into evil seems to have been so gradual, he was not at all aware of the extent of his own depravation, whereas it was clear and shocking to Digory. He would never want to end up like him, and would probably guard against Uncle Andrew's way of thinking for the rest of his life. If Andrew Ketterley, as a young man, had known someone like his future self, he probably would have been much less likely to choose the path he did.

[Ryadian]

In some ways, I'd say that Andrew Ketterley and Digory Kirke are rather similar, personality-wise... they both have trouble with letting their curiosity get the best of them. Andrew was happy to let other people take the brunt of his experiments, and Digory physically forced Polly to go along with his choice of ringing the bell.

Speaking of that scene.....

"That's all you know," said Digory. "It's because you're a girl. Girls never want to know anything but gossip and rot about people getting engaged."

"You looked exactly like your Uncle when you said that," said Polly.

Despite how differently they do end up, despite how much Digory detests his uncle and wants to be nothing like him, Digory does sometimes act like him--here, not only forcing Polly to participate in his experiment, but also resorting to speaking disrespectfully of women in general (as Uncle Andrew is prone to do). At the beginning of the book, Digory wants to do nothing more than cry because of how miserable his life is--and, while he has every right to grieve over it, it is reminiscent of how Uncle Andrew takes any situation and makes it about his own misery. In that case, when Polly tries to take his mind off of it and into subjects like adventures, he lets her, whereas Uncle Andrew takes it so far as to refuse to see the beauty of Narnia's creation or believe that the animals can talk.

Obviously, it's impossible to say what could have been, but I think it's entirely possible that Digory could have grown up like Uncle Andrew, and it's very likely that the timing of his visit to Narnia was just what he needed--actually, they both needed. Digory was given a chance to really see what growing up like his uncle would be like--not just from experiencing his selfishness, but by making his own similar poor choices--and Aslan, by forcing him to confess what he'd done, also confronts him indirectly with this fact. Uncle Andrew, meanwhile, stubbornly refuses to see the beauty of Aslan and Narnia, despite how much his curious nature should have been intrigued, and is left scarred by the experience. Interestingly, though, it also "scares him straight" off of magic, and he also becomes a "nicer and less selfish" man in the end. DiGs mentioned in the first thread that the parallels between them provides a message of individual choices and where they lead, and I completely agree, but I think it's also important that they both turned out better after seeing Narnia, despite making completely different choices.

[Dr_Cornelius]

It's interesting to think that if Uncle Andrew had been the character in an H.G. Wells novel, he probably would have been the hero. I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Time Traveler were just as manic and unfriendly as Uncle Andrew was. In fact, given that the Time Traveler vanishes at the end of the novel, we can probably assume he just gave up on people altogether to follow his "high and lonely destiny", which is the sort of thing an anti-social elitist like Uncle Andrew could well end up doing. (Is it significant that Digory seems a little more sociable than Uncle Andrew? Maybe if he'd been a more lonely boy, he would have been more inclined to be as elitist as his uncle; but then again, we don't know what Andrew's childhood was like. Ultimately, it always comes down to personal moral choices and not simply environment and influences, both in Lewis and in real life.)

We could also compare Uncle Andrew to Professor Weston in Lewis' Space Trilogy, also the embodiment of everything wrong (in Lewis' eyes) with the post-Enlightenment world--notice the geographical implications of the name "Weston". Just like Weston wanted to colonize Eden, Uncle Andrew wants to commercialize Narnia. (I could probably make a nasty joke about Walden Media here...) And, as Lewis was fond of pointing out, the magic of the Renaissance was not, in principle, different from science. Both were ultimately about control. (Think of Aleister Crowley's definition of magic: "The science and art of causing change in conformity with will.") Science just happened to work better than magic did, but both had the same intent of conquering Nature and causing it to obey man's will.

This may be part of why Digory turns out differently than Uncle Andrew. Imagine if Digory had such a longing to go back to Narnia that he devoted the rest of his life to trying to get back to it, and once he discovered that Lucy had visited that country, he immediately locked all the children up in the spare room until they could figure out how to get there again. He could have chosen to become that sort of person, but it seems to me that instead of trying to escape back into Narnia, he trusted that Aslan would be with him even in our world (a trust that no doubt sprung from his mother's healing) and would bring him back to Narnia, if he ever needed to, in his own good time. In other words, Digory relinquishes control and trusts, and I think that is the pivotal difference between him and Uncle Andrew, or at least the thing that prevents him from accidentally warping into someone like him.

That said--maybe in a way Digory *did* spend the rest of his life trying to get into Aslan's country, or at least trying to understand it. It seems like he became a professor of philosophy who specialized in Plato, not only because he recognizes the Platonic ideas in *The Last Battle* but also because of his Socratic method of teaching the children in *The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe*; teaching by questioning. This may be part of Uncle Andrew's problem, too; like Eustace Scrubb, he simply hasn't read the right books. If he had studied Plato and Aristotle, he would have realized that happiness actually comes from virtue, not from having everything you've ever wanted (Jadis also would have benefited from learning this).

This is probably also part of Lewis' critique: Nowadays we have instrumental science becoming more powerful than ever, but without philosophy to properly define its epistemological and moral limits, and we even have prominent and popular science advocates like Neil deGrasse Tyson outright dismissing philosophy as being basically worthless. Uncle Andrew (and Professor Weston) are a bit of a cautionary tale about where that might lead us; Professor Kirke (isn't it interesting that his surname means "Church"?) gives us an alternate model of what an intellectual should be like.

[HelenP]

The Magician's Nephew is all about temptation - what happens when you succumb to it and when you resist it, and how unscrupulous people use it as a weapon. Has anyone considered the similarities of Jadis and Mrs. Lefay? Scenario - Mrs. Lefay gives a child a box and says don't open it, burn it. What is the average child going to do?? I grew up reading Enid Blyton stories about secret tunnels, hidden doors etc. and I know I would have been desperate to know what was in that box - wouldn't any child? Now Mrs. Lefay would have known this and was tempting the young Andrew to go wrong. Later he used the same weapon to tempt Polly to take a pretty ring and Jadis used temptation twice - once to get someone to strike the bell and secondly to try to corrupt Digory in the garden.

[jewel]

Well Digory certainly plays an important role in the Narnia books. He brings the witch to her old kingdom, and she follows him and Jill Pole into our world then to Narnia, he also owns the house by which the Pevensies discover Narnia.
Yes your right DigoryKirke, he didn't do all bad. But I would add like Adam brought death into this world by sin, Digory brought death into Narnia.

[Alambil Stark]

I think that you made a really interesting observation. If you compare the two of them, they're really different. Now that I think about it, Digory is more mature than his uncle Andrew, regardless of their possible significant age difference. Digory is just a kid, but Uncle Andrew is a grown man. It is curious that this is the way it is.
I think that this might be due to Digory's troubles, as DiGoRyKiRkE pointed out. Problems shape us and teach us lessons. However, this can't be proven because we don't know much about Uncle Andrew's past. Maybe he had it difficult too. Anyway, that is my hypothesis.

[HelenP]

Good point, Alambil!

You can compare the young Andrew and Digory. Digory knows that there are things you just don't do - possibly he has had a Sunday School or church upbringing - but the young Andrew doesn't seem to have had any of this kind of guidance. He agrees to take the box and destroy it, knowing full well that, having made a solemn promise, he will break his word to follow his own selfish desires. Digory, even when faced with his mother's death, knows what an honourable person must do. Even though he is a child, he knows right from wrong.
Every time I read that passage when Jadis tries to tempt him I can feel his agony - can't you?

Helen (been reading the Chronicles forever and still learning!!)

[coracle]

Lewis himself explains in "Mere Christianity" that the Christian faith has a morality built in.
There is an implicit suggestion here that people who follow it will make the right choices, as depicted by his two examples: Andrew who seems to have been attracted by magical, other-spiritual things, and Digory who has had enough Christian upbringing to make good choices.

[HelenP]

There is also the question (in life0 of the sort of people one gets to know and spends one time with. Digory has had a strict yet loving upbringing giving him a good grounding in basic principles. Andrew Kirke has got to know "some devilish queer people" as part of his quest to learn more about magic You can imagine some criminal types and evil twisted people who have warped his way of thinking. My dad was a copper and was very quick to spot when a kid was getting in with the wrong sort and would see the parents straightaway and warn them about it. Digory still shows some selfishness when he overrules Polly about striking the bell but soon realises the terrible consequences of his actions as opposed to Uncle Andrew who shows no concern at all for the victims of his plans. The only redeeming feature is that at the end of the book he becomes a reformed character but not from remorse but from terror after his adventure in Narnia.