Regarding Kings Caspian and Rilian

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Regarding Kings Caspian and Rilian

Postby Dana P. » Feb 02, 2013 9:49 am

I recently reread the CoN, and I thought that I would raise a couple of comments concerning this father and son pair.

First, has there ever been any discussion of the fact that Caspian only had one son? Given Caspian's rather advanced age in The Silver Chair, it can be inferred from the text that he fathered Rilian quite late in life. It's a bit surprising that Caspian and his beloved queen, the unnamed daughter of Ramandu, only had the one child.

Also, I always found the Star Daughter's fate to be quite sad, especially after her rather idyllic life on Ramandu's Island.

Secondly, and this is just for fun, has anyone ever noticed that Rilian's mathematical prowess may have been hampered a bit after spending so much time in Underworld? :) He relates to Puddleglum, Eustace, and Jill that the Gnomes might find it odd if they see him and "four" strangers approaching the boat without the Queen of Underworld. I checked my old paperback copies from the 70s, and the text is the same as a much more recent printing. I'm surprised that no one ever caught it during some editorial process.
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Re: Regarding Kings Caspian and Rilian

Postby PhelanVelvel » Feb 02, 2013 4:37 pm

I noticed that last error while reading The Silver Chair recently. "What the Earthmen would say if he went down to the harbour without the Witch, and with four strangers, and simply ordered a ship, no one could guess." Sounds more like Lewis' fault than Rilian's, since it's not Rilian talking, but the narrator. XD

Maybe they only wanted one child. I don't even want one, lol. I mean, to be fair, maybe they just decided to have one and that be their heir, and that's it. Or maybe it's not easy to have a child with a star's daughter? Since she's almost of another species in a way? I tend to think of things biologically that really don't work that way, being fantasy and all. XP
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Re: Regarding Kings Caspian and Rilian

Postby DiGoRyKiRkE » Feb 02, 2013 5:05 pm

Rillian would have looked like a stranger, methinks. . . most of the gnomes (save for those that aided the queen directly) would have never seen him without his black armor.
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Re: Regarding Kings Caspian and Rilian

Postby waggawerewolf27 » Feb 02, 2013 5:25 pm

Caspian was an only child, himself, so it is not surprising that he would be happy just with the one baby. Or maybe girls can't succeed the throne of Narnia under the Telmarines? Are we told when Caspian's mother died and how? Aunt Prunaprismia also took her time having the baby Miraz wanted so much. Even in the book PC he was aged about 14 when he had to flee Miraz.

Last year I went on a tour of Europe, seeing all the palaces etc, such as Versailles, Schonbrunn and Buckingham palaces. It is worth noting the fancy state bedrooms allotted the kings and especially the queens. Surprisingly, they weren't often used. The kings' bedrooms were for their early morning business appointments. We were told at the Schonbrunn Palace that the magnificent bedroom for the Queen was for when she was to have the baby, so that everyone knew the baby was genuine. No wonder royalty often had problems with producing heirs if they had to do so in front of an audience of officials. And no wonder that so many of their babies died. Presumably the same sort of situation could have applied to Caspian, his Queen and his son.

I never noticed the discrepancy though I believe you. It could have been a typo or the editor's fault when republishing the book, as well as C.S.Lewis' mistake. Otherwise, we'd just have Rilian recovering still after his head had been messed up by LOTGK.
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Re: Regarding Kings Caspian and Rilian

Postby PhelanVelvel » Feb 02, 2013 6:41 pm

DiGoRyKiRkE wrote:Rillian would have looked like a stranger, methinks. . . most of the gnomes (save for those that aided the queen directly) would have never seen him without his black armor.


Hm, that's true, I hadn't thought of it that way. I too thought it was a typo. Unless the place I quoted was not the one Dana P. meant, but I couldn't find another instance where "four strangers" were mentioned.

Wagga, I hope they wouldn't subject Narnian kings and queens to such humiliation! It's scary just thinking about that. :[ I don't think Aslan would approve of it...and if Narnia had those types of rules I don't think I'd want to be there. "Have your baby in front of us or we won't believe you didn't cheat." Not a very Narnian-sounding policy to me. And even in our world, there is of course no relationship between one's genetics and one's ability to rule a country. So the desperate need for a successor to share the king's DNA doesn't really make sense, unless you want to make the argument that if he KNOWS the king is his father, he'll have more loyalty to him and his ideas.
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Re: Regarding Kings Caspian and Rilian

Postby waggawerewolf27 » Feb 04, 2013 10:15 pm

I don't think that Aslan would have ever been party to a "warming pan plot". But in the real world it was all too true. In one guide book about the Louvre or Versailles (they were both royal palaces) I learned that when the Queen was about to go into labour a little bell would be rung to summon all the courtiers. :ymsick: Some palaces/castles we couldn't visit because they are now presidential palaces, and others were generally open to public inspection. But both Windsor Castle and Buckingham Palace only show the state and entertainment areas because the Royal family don't want people traipsing through their private quarters, I expect. :D There was only one state bed in Windsor Castle and the only one who ever slept in it was the visiting Empress Eugenie of France in the late 1800's. And she complained about how uncomfortable it was. =))

All the same, I wouldn't be surprised at nefarious goings on, even under Caspian X. When Miraz seized the throne, he probably didn't want a second heir to the throne to materialise a few months after Caspian IX's death, and so......goodbye Queen? :-\

Who is to say there wasn't a plant in Cair Paravel up to some skulduggery? A witch in disguise? :-$
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Re: Regarding Kings Caspian and Rilian

Postby King_Erlian » Feb 05, 2013 3:29 am

One plot point in SC has bugged me for a long time. Towards the end of SC, when Rilian returns to Narnia, Lewis says that some of the older Narnians remembered how Caspian had looked when he was younger and saw the resemblance. So why didn't Eustace recognise him straight away, as he had seen the young Caspian only a few weeks ago by his reckoning?
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Re: Regarding Kings Caspian and Rilian

Postby PhelanVelvel » Feb 05, 2013 4:51 pm

King_Erlian wrote:One plot point in SC has bugged me for a long time. Towards the end of SC, when Rilian returns to Narnia, Lewis says that some of the older Narnians remembered how Caspian had looked when he was younger and saw the resemblance. So why didn't Eustace recognise him straight away, as he had seen the young Caspian only a few weeks ago by his reckoning?


This is true. Unless they meant that those who had seen Caspian as a youngster also saw Rilian before his enchantment. Because if they had seen Caspian as a young man, surely they would have seen Rilian before he disappeared, right? And, well...while it may be a stretch, maybe you could argue anyway that the witch's magic, that "something wrong" about his face or whatever, made him look sufficiently different to the observer than his old unenchanted self?
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Re: Regarding Kings Caspian and Rilian

Postby waggawerewolf27 » Feb 05, 2013 10:23 pm

King Erlian wrote:So why didn't Eustace recognise him straight away, as he had seen the young Caspian only a few weeks ago by his reckoning?


For the same reasons that sometimes when looking for something, eg a book, the item when you locate it looks slightly different to what you thought or expected. Yes, Eustace had seen Caspian beforehand, but he didn't recognise Caspian when he first landed in Narnia in SC, did he?

It was a reasonable guess that Rilian would look like his father, and since Eustace had also seen his mother, Ramandu's daughter, he had two ways of recognising him. But Rilian, when Eustace and Jill found him, was considerably older than King CAspian was when he sailed to the world's end. And then there was the matter of Rilian's amnesia and the magic which held him prisoner.

Much of SC was written from Jill's perspective, so a lot of what Eustace thought or felt isn't revealed. It appears that he thought it was Jill's job to learn the signs, not really his as well. There was a good reason why Aslan gave them those signs, especially the last. Rilian under the spell would never have begged anyone to do something in Aslan's name - he'd simply forgotten, himself, who he was. Maybe whatever caused his amnesia also caused a change in appearance. Jill and Eustace thought, when they first met Rilian, there was something wrong with his face - maybe they were right.
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