End of LWW: why didn't they go straight home?

[King_Erlian]

Hi, first post on NarniaWeb, so apologies if this has already been done to death.

Once the Witch had been defeated at the end of LWW, the Pevensies were happy to be crowned Kings and Queens, and it would seem that they had no intention or thought of going home to England. Why did none of them (especially Susan) think, "We really must be getting home, the Professor will be wondering where we've gone, our parents will be worried sick?" The fact that no noticeable amount of time passed in England while Lucy was having tea with Mr. Tumnus wouldn't have been enough to convince them that they could spend as long as they liked in Narnia and still arrive home at the same moment they left; they didn't know about the time difference between Narnia and our world until they came back through the wardrobe, and didn't fully understand it until they discovered the ruins of Cair Paravel in PC.

What do you think?

[fantasia]

Welcome King_Erlian! You know, it's funny, it wasn't until after VDT came out in theaters that I read a review that brought up the point you have here in this thread. I can honestly say that up until then I hadn't ever thought about it.

From a writing standpoint, perhaps Lewis ignored that point to appeal to children's imaginations? I think most children would prefer to imagine themselves off in a fantasy world ruling as king's and queen's rather than cleaning up their bedroom in the real world. Or as was the case in the books, coming home to a war-torn country.

But from a story standpoint, I always assumed that both Lucy's trip (which did make a huge impression on Peter and Susan as they brought it up to the professor) as well as Edmund and Lucy's trip in the second time was more than enough for them to assume no time would pass in our world while they ruled as Kings and Queens.

Another hypothetical idea, maybe Aslan made them forget? He would certainly know they'd go back home and nothing would change.

[waggawerewolf27]

From a writing standpoint, perhaps Lewis ignored that point to appeal to children's imaginations? I think most children would prefer to imagine themselves off in a fantasy world ruling as king's and queen's rather than cleaning up their bedroom in the real world. Or as was the case in the books, coming home to a war-torn country.

Yes, that is a good point. But in Last Battle, when Jill and Jewel were discussing past Narnian history, Jewel emphasizes that the children only ever came to Narnia when there was a crisis of some sort, and that in between there were plenty of times when nothing of note happened that was any more important than the latest balls and festivities - otherwise a time of joy.

However, I have read or heard on the Family Focus productions that Lewis had all the novels more or less planned before even LWW was finally published. Even if is wasn't the case, chances are, that if he had written LWW differently, the other novels could not have eventuated. Magician's Nephew is the lead up to the events of LWW, and explains the wardrobe, the lantern post and why Jadis eventually took over Narnia. But Digory Kirk wasn't sent home by Aslan until after he fetched the apple as he had been commanded to do.

The remaining novels also depend heavily on that 15 year Pevensie reign at the end of LWW. HHB could not have taken place if Queen Susan had gone home directly after the Battle of Beruna, and there would be no point in telling it, if Edmund and Lucy had not been able to bear witness to the events surrounding the Siege of Anvard. Prince Caspian called up the Pevensies by using Queen Susan's horn, which had been found after the Pevensie return to their own world. He would not have bothered if the Pevensies had not built up a respected reputation before they left.

Edmund and Lucy were distinguished visitors on the Dawn Treader, and it was due to them that Eustace got the consideration on the ship he might not otherwise have received. And it was also due to their past experiences while reigning that Edmund and Lucy were able to brief Prince Caspian about the Lone Islands' past history.

It seems to me that in each of the Narnia Chronicles the children who went there, or were already there, had a job to do. They couldn't leave and return to this world until that job was completed or they perished in the effort, just as Aslan told Jill at the beginning of SC. And that if in LWW the Pevensies had left right after the Battle of Beruna that they would not have fulfilled the prophecy that the Beavers had recited to them in LWW, nor would they have had time to set things to right. You can't have the kings and queens vanishing directly after the coronation - that would be a scandal even in the current real world.

[King_Erlian]

waggawerewolf27 makes a very good point. It's possible that, just as they couldn't get into Narnia through the wardrobe when they were trying to do it and it only happened when they weren't expecting it, they couldn't get back when they were trying to do so and they only managed it when they weren't expecting it. Unless, of course, their return was directly commanded by Aslan, as at the end of PC, VotDT, SC and MN.

We don't have a record of any one of them trying to return home after the defeat of the Witch but that doesn't mean that it never happened.

Incidentally, how long did the Pevensies' reign last? The films seem to suggest it was 15 years but I think it was much longer than that, given by the way their patterns of speech changed. I would imagine it would be about 15 years between their coronation and HHB (where they were clearly all adults, I would guess in their early twenties) and another 10 or 15 years from then until the Hunting of the White Stag, by the mediaeval style of speech they were using then, and by the fact that since HHB (when Lucy told the story of their arrival in Narnia to the court of King Lune) they had completely forgotten about how they came to be in Narnia, and of the existence of the lamp-post (wouldn't you expect them to know their kingdom well enough to know it was there?).

[DiGoRyKiRkE]

Incidentally, how long did the Pevensies' reign last?

The Pevensies reigned for a total of 15 years. You are correct

[waggawerewolf27]

Of course you are right, Digory.

I would imagine it would be about 15 years between their coronation and HHB (where they were clearly all adults, I would guess in their early twenties) and another 10 or 15 years from then until the Hunting of the White Stag, by the mediaeval style of speech they were using then, and by the fact that since HHB (when Lucy told the story of their arrival in Narnia to the court of King Lune) they had completely forgotten about how they came to be in Narnia, and of the existence of the lamp-post (wouldn't you expect them to know their kingdom well enough to know it was there?).

15 years is quite long enough to change one's accent, depending how much visitors consort with and converse with the locals. 15 years into adulthood can be quite long enough to start forgetting childish things as well, a point Lewis makes in his dedication of LWW to Lucy Barfield.

I think that once the White Witch had been defeated, the Giants pacified, the missing Prince Cor had been restored to his family and Rabadash dealt with, there wasn't much else for the Pevensies to do and at that point the White Stag came along to lead them back to the reality of the Professor's house.

As a child, fishing with my father, in a rowing boat on the Wallis Lakes, near Forster and Tuncurry (New South Wales), I christened one of the islands Bus-stop Island, because of a bus-stop post someone had implanted on the beach of that island. This yellow bus-stop with a 'change here for Bondi Junction' message written on it, did look incongrouous, just sitting there on a beach, with thick scrub behind it, a very long way from Bondi Junction in Sydney. And it did look just like the LWW Lantern post in the middle of a forest. As if a real motorised bus would happen along in the middle of quite a large estuary-style lake. Of course there are army ducks, but after all this time, I wonder if it is still there?

We don't have a record of any one of them trying to return home after the defeat of the Witch but that doesn't mean that it never happened.

I doubt if the children really thought about returning home up until the end of HHB. What was home, anyway, to return to? The Pevensies were evacuated to the country, and were staying in the Professor's house. The housekeeper was too busy with visitors and sightseers to want the Pevensies cluttering up the place, and to avoid her tour guidance, the four children had hidden in the spare room with the wardrobe, where technically they hadn't left the house. As Susan pointed out when they borrowed the fur coats.

At the end of LWW, when their adventure with the White Stag brought them to the Lantern Post, only Susan suggested 'going home' and giving up the chase. But what did she mean by that at that point of the story?

[DiGoRyKiRkE]

10 or 15 years from then until the Hunting of the White Stag, by the mediaeval style of speech they were using then

There's also a principle of development that states that if you take a child of 12 years or less, and drop them into a society, they'll be able to pick up whatever language there is in said society.

As all of the Pevensie's were younger than that, I would not be at all surprised for them to pick up another form of speaking.

[Lilygloves]

I think it is very interesting that i seems that in LWW, the children seemed to have the power to go to and from their world and Narnia. Obviously Aslan is in control of everything, but as they pointed out in LB the children usually have no way of commuting between worlds. LWW is the only book where there is a physical place for anyone to travel between worlds, and in MN they had the power themselves via the rings.
Honestly, I think anyone would rather be a king or queen of a place with unicorns, centaurs, and Talking Animals than be a child living in a strange house during a war. And I think they realized that time wouldn't pass in their world when they were in Narnia. Another point is that they knew Aslan wanted them to rule Narnia. If you knew Jesus was telling you to go to another country to be a missionary for example, you could go home anytime you wanted. The reason you would stay is because you know the other country is where Jesus wants you to be

[wild rose]

I remember that in LWW Lewis says that they remembered their time in England only as a dream, or a dream of a dream, perhaps Aslan sort of clouded their memory of England and their parents so they could focus on ruling Narnia.
Also I do have a question, where exactly does it say they ruled Narnia for 15 years, not like I have any doubts, and in truth it really make little difference to me how long they reigned there, but I am curious as to where the '15 year reign' is mentioned

[DiGoRyKiRkE]

but I am curious as to where the '15 year reign' is mentioned

It's mentioned on the official Narnia timeline, which was sanctioned by the estate.

[wild rose]

ah I see....but Lewis himself never really mentioned that they reigned for 15 years?....but that's probably a completely different topic anyway, thanks for answering

[D-T]

Maybe they just didn't want to go home. I wouldn't, because in Narnia I was a queen, in London I was a normal kid. and with the whole tea-with-Mr. Tumnas thing, they knew only a little time or no time at all would pass. But do you remember when they saw the lamp post for the first time in fifteen years, they seemed to have forgotten about it, so maybe they forgot about England. anyways, Narnia needed them to protect them, and like it has already been said, the other books would have had to change.

[King_Erlian]

But isn't it odd that near the end of The Horse And His Boy, Queen Lucy relates the story of how she and her sister and brothers came into Narnia to the court of King Lune? So she clearly hadn't forgotten about their original home at that point. (Incidentally, how would King Edmund have felt about her reminding everyone of how he'd betrayed them?)

If the total length of the Pevensies' reign had been about 15 years then that incident at the court of King Lune would have been a very short time before they returned through the wardrobe. Yet when they did so, they had forgotten all about the lamp-post or even what a lamp-post was. That's why I think their return to England must have happened a number of (Narnian) years later still.

To be honest, I think this was just a slip-up on C.S. Lewis' part, when writing The Horse And His Boy. In describing the festivities at King Lune's court, he thought it would be good to have the major characters all chip in with a story or a song, and when it was Lucy's turn he thought the most dramatic would be the story of LWW, without considering any possible contradictions or paradoxes. <controversial mode off>

[DiGoRyKiRkE]

Yes, I've always thought that it was VERY strange that they don't remember the lamppost when they return to our world. It's such a huge part of Narnian history, and it's one of the most famous landmarks. Poor planning on Lewis' part

[EveningStar]

Becoming a King or Queen is like becoming an adopted Father or Mother. It's a sacred relationship usually solemnised with a sacramental use of oil of chrism and prayer as one might consecrate a priest or perform a marriage.

The only truly moral reason to abdicate is when circumstances make you unable to carry out your oath, or when the good of the nation requires it.

Kings and Queens of our world even perform as solemn and personal a union as marriage and bearing someone's child into the world with an eye to what is best for the nation. Queen Victoria was madly in love with Prince Albert, but it wasn't for some years that he came to love her as a woman rather than a friend and co-worker.

And so with no further ado, I remind you that C.S. Lewis grew up in a monarchy, and thus had more of a feel for this than most American or European Republican members of this forum.

[Dinode]

Another possibility comes to mind when you remember something mentioned in PC. Edmund fought Trumpkin much better than he would have done a day ago because the Narnian air was affecting him. It mentions several other places in the chronicles about the air changing visitors. Perhaps another effect that takes longer to show itself is forgetting our own world. Lucy may have remembered meeting Tumnus but by that point have forgotten the lamppost. After all, she could have just said she was on the border of Narnia and not needed to mention it.