End of LWW: why didn't they go straight home?

[Menelve]

I do think Dinode has a point there. Physically being in Narnia seems to warp the perspectives of the children who visit. How many times do any of the children long for home? It doesn't really happen. In LWW Lucy remembers that she must go home but that is only when her brothers and sisters are in England still. Once all four are in Narnia, the present adventure is more captivating.

Who would want to go home once they'd fought and won a war and had been crowned kings and queens? And I think they were kept busy by affairs of state. Firstly, the entire kingdom of Narnia needed to be re-established. Laws needed to be passed. Giants (in other words more wars) needed to be quashed. During their reign they also built ships for the Navy, sent out explorers, etc. In other words, during the events of LWW their experiences were limited to Narnia itself, but once the war was won they realized just how big the whole world was and I'm sure they were curious and wanted to explore more. Even 15 years wouldn't have been sufficient to find out all there was about the world around Narnia.

~Anna

[De_De]

I agree with you, Menelve, who would want to go back to England when you are in such a wonderful place such as Narnia. There was one thing though, In A Horse and His Boy Lucy starts telling them how she got into Narnia, but In LWW when they see the lamp they're all kinda puzzled as to why there is a lamp in the middle of the wood. Isn't that illogical?

[Narnian_Archer]

De_De, I think it mentions in the book that the Pevensies had been so long in Narnia that they had quite forgotten all about the existence of their old world and regarded what little memory they had of it as a sort of dream. They speak as though the lantern is from a dream, or a dream of a dream. Some memories do turn to that, especially if they're from long ago, to where you do sort of subconsciously, vaguely remember something, but it's a little hazy and you're not even really sure if it ever existed. I think it's safe to assume the same with the Pevensies.

[Varnafinde]

If the total length of the Pevensies' reign had been about 15 years then that incident at the court of King Lune would have been a very short time before they returned through the wardrobe. Yet when they did so, they had forgotten all about the lamp-post or even what a lamp-post was. That's why I think their return to England must have happened a number of (Narnian) years later still.

To be honest, I think this was just a slip-up on C.S. Lewis' part, when writing The Horse And His Boy. In describing the festivities at King Lune's court, he thought it would be good to have the major characters all chip in with a story or a song, and when it was Lucy's turn he thought the most dramatic would be the story of LWW, without considering any possible contradictions or paradoxes. <controversial mode off>

I agree with you. There were also other parts of LWW that seem to have been forgotten when the later books were written (some of the role of Jadis especially). I think he made the same slip-up (or remembered it from HHB) when he put 15 years into the time-line.

The only truly moral reason to abdicate is when circumstances make you unable to carry out your oath, or when the good of the nation requires it.

Or, in Narnia's case, if Aslan commanded it - which he would presumably do only if some higher good required it. So they wouldn't just abandon their kingdom.

Kings and Queens of our world even perform as solemn and personal a union as marriage and bearing someone's child into the world with an eye to what is best for the nation. [...]
And so with no further ado, I remind you that C.S. Lewis grew up in a monarchy, and thus had more of a feel for this than most American or European Republican members of this forum.

Royal marriage has changed a good deal in that aspect since the days of Lewis, but in his days it was certainly so. The previous English King - the uncle of the current Queen Elizabeth - had abandoned his throne to marry a woman who was not seen as good for the country - and he was not a generally popular man after that. His current King (as of 1950) was a lot more popular.

I have the same advantage as Lewis, I'm a European (Norwegian) Monarchist. Our King (Harald) is very popular. He does not plan to abdicate when he might be too old (he's only 75) - neither his father nor his grandfather did, they both stayed in office until death.

[Ithilwen]

I think the reason why they weren't afraid to stay a long time in Narnia is because, while lots of time passes in Narnia while they're in our world, they always come back to the same point in time in our world when they go back to it from Narnia.

So while someone from Narnia would have to be very careful how much time they spent here, we have the advantage of being able to spend as much time as we like there.


~Riella

[Varnafinde]

I think the reason why they weren't afraid to stay a long time in Narnia is because, while lots of time passes in Narnia while they're in our world, they always come back to the same point in time in our world when they go back to it from Narnia.

That had only happened twice, though. Lucy went on her own, and then she went again followed by Edmund. so by their own experience, they have only two occasions to go by.

Professor Kirke had supported the view, though. He said that you could expect a different world not to take up any of our time (not yet telling them that he was speaking from his own experience). So maybe it was his words more than just their own experience that might make them trust this principle.

[Aravanna]

I think I subscribe to the theory that Aslan or the Narnia air makes you forget your home. It makes good sense that Narnia needed their kings and queens to get settled and structured and protected after the White Witch was vanquished. If they had left right away, they would have left a county still in shambles.

As far as how their forgetfulness worked, I wonder if they remembered when people reminded the. In King Lune's court, there might have been people who actually called for the story of how Lucy came to Narnia. She could have remembered the story enough to tell it, but it would still have seemed like a dream to her. Then all four Pevensies started to remember again when they saw the Lamppost.

Or it might have been a oversight on the part of Lewis. I get the feeling he valued other aspects of writing much more highly then having a waterproof plot. And I like the sort of dreamy way the Pevensies remember their home, then fully remember once they stumble back into their world. It's a good way to transition for a magical place if you ask me.

[Dinode]

I agree that the real reason is because Lewis forgot or overlooked it, but that doesn't mean we can't come up with in-story explanations, does it? They did that with the various Star Wars books whenever new movies came out that invalidated parts of the plot.

I think the reason why they weren't afraid to stay a long time in Narnia is because, while lots of time passes in Narnia while they're in our world, they always come back to the same point in time in our world when they go back to it from Narnia.

So while someone from Narnia would have to be very careful how much time they spent here, we have the advantage of being able to spend as much time as we like there.

Good point, the only thing they would have to worry about is what would happen if they died in Narnia (which we still don't really know for sure), other than that, or even with that, they could just trust Aslan to make sure they went home if and when they needed to.

[Narnian_Badger]

Ah, the joys of fanon. I'll say that, first and foremost, this is an author error. It's a bit hazy as to how much the Pevensies remembered, how much they forgot, when they forgot, etc. I don't buy into the theory that they remembered England, but stuck around because "Narnia was more fun." Lucy's eight, here, she'd want her mum at some point! Or at least Susan would think about it, and I don't think the the time discrepancy between worlds was on their minds, either. But anyway...

Now, it's fairly apparent why Lewis had them forget during the hunt. If the Pevensies had remembered, then finding the Lamppost would be inconsequential, and they wouldn't have gone back through the wardrobe. As such, they'd have stayed for many more years as there'd be no reason for them to ever return to England (unless they got bored or something... not a very interesting ending).

So. I think it'd be interesting to look at how long it takes one to start forgetting--take Eustace, for example. He was on the Dawn Treader for months, and certainly never forgot anything about England (we know this because he never stopped talking about it!). And again, in SC, he and Jill have a discussion on what might happen back home if they were to die in Narnia. Or look at the flip side--Digory and Polly went to Narnia when they were kids, and haven't forgotten it at all, even though several decades have passed!

With that being said... is it possible that the term of 15 years in LWW (or really, any number of years) would cause them to forget England almost entirely, despite no signs of a progression towards this end in any other instance?

My guess would be... well, "No." It just seems highly implausible that Lucy would remember the trip in HHB (14 years after arrival) and then, less than a year later, the four would have forget England entirely. More over, it doesn't make sense that they were in Narnia for more than 15 or so years (they're still fairly young when hunting the stag, remember, and even if you added 'only' 15 additional years, you still wouldn't match Polly and Digory's time).

Accordingly, I don't think they forgot at all, until the White Stag. I've always assumed that the stag was sent by Aslan to lead the Pevensies back, and perhaps at the same time, Aslan made them forget. I guess he somehow dampened their emotional ties to England... that, or they weren't very close to their parents at all.

[Dinode]

You mentioned Digory and Polly, but they were in our world, not Narnia, so it's not quite fair to compare how much they remembered in our own air and how much the Pevensies forgot in Narnian air.

[Narnian_Badger]

If anything, it's almost more fair, since the London air would be rather clogged and prone to causing brain damage.

But, if you don't want to count them, there's also Frank and Helen (the first King and Queen of Narnia). They were in Narnia until the literal end of their days, and there's no indication that they forgot anything. If nothing else, they remembered they were "sons of Adam and daughters of Eve."

Here's another question--even if the Pevensies did manage to forget where they came from, what about the rest of the Narnians? Would Tumnus remember that fateful day by the lamppost, or Mr. Beaver remember their secret trip through the woods? Did everyone forget where their kings and queens came from, and if so, why did they remember after the Pevensies left again?

[Varnafinde]

I've seen a suggestion that the Pevensies remembered the Narnian part of their story very well, but that they started to forget England very soon. Thus Lucy would have been able to tell about the wardrobe and about the lamp-post and the flight with the Beavers, but what had been before and beyond the wardrobe was all hazy.

It could make some sense.

I'm not so sure that they were still fairly young when hunting the stag - in the movie, yes, but not necessarily in the book. Not in LWW, anyway - some of the later books may indicate them as young, but then again everything in LWW isn't consistent with all the later books.

[King_Erlian]

I still think it's odd that, in the first few weeks of their time in Narnia at least, they would have had no thought of their parents. The fact that they were packed off to boarding school (although Lucy hadn't experienced this yet) might suggest that they weren't as close to their parents as some kids, but there's no suggestion that their relationship with their parents was bad and they were glad to see the back of them.

As for the time differential thing, when all four of them finally got into Narnia, all they knew at that stage was that Lucy had spent a few hours with Mr. Tumnus and no noticeable time had passed at Professor Kirke's house, and something similar had happened when Lucy and Edmund both got into Narnia. I don't think they would have concluded from that that they could have spent years in Narnia and still no time would have passed at home. Even if they had, there's nothing that would have made them think that when they did return, they would "de-age" and be just as they had been when they left, even down to wearing the same clothes. As far as they knew, if they had remembered about the wardrobe when hunting the White Stag, they would most likely have thought that when they returned to our world, one minute there would have been four young children on the run from the Macready, the next there would have been two fully grown men and two fully grown women, all dressed in Narnian hunting clothes.

[waggawerewolf27]

I still think it's odd that, in the first few weeks of their time in Narnia at least, they would have had no thought of their parents. The fact that they were packed off to boarding school (although Lucy hadn't experienced this yet) might suggest that they weren't as close to their parents as some kids, but there's no suggestion that their relationship with their parents was bad and they were glad to see the back of them.

If their father was in the military, in particular, maybe their mother as well, the Pevensies were used to the idea of boarding school, even Lucy who hadn't been there yet. C.S.Lewis had been to boarding school, himself, and so have I been, at a much younger age than any of them. It was the pre-1970's answer to child-minding.

Like thousands of other London children the Pevensies had been evacuated to the country during WW2. Yes, they might sometimes think of their parents but before they went into Narnia and got so busy, their parents were equally busy dealing with being bombed etc. I think that the Pevensies were better off where they were, and both they and their parents accepted that. When they went into the wardrobe, the Pevensies were evading a tour group where they had no business to be.

As Susan would have said, they were all technically in the house, just not in the way. And if there is one thing that Susan reminds the others of their parents it is Susan's annoying habit of 'sounding just like Mother'. And whilst Lucy might remember the time whilst with Tumnus, I'm sure once the children were away from Mrs McCready and absorbed in what they were doing, then yes, they would have forgotten much about the real world.

[parableproductions]

I know a lot of you put a lot of stock in the timeline - I don't. The reason that I don't is in the books themselves there isn't a definitive timeline of the time that they spent in Narnia - now there is for their time away from Narnia (in PC, they state that it had been about a year since their return from Narnia - VDT states that it had been about a year AND Caspian says it had been three years Narnian time). It isn't even really clear when the Pevensies were sent to Prof. Kirke's. All the book says is during the war, because of bombs. I get the very distinct impression in PC that WWII is over. You don't have to agree with me - but that's just what I see when I read them.

Now, as to the question of why they didn't go back immediately. Well, when they first got there - they wanted to explore a little bit. Then Edmund betrayed them and they were intent on rescuing him. When Edmund came to his senses and returned to them, Peter and Edmund were focused on defeating the White Witch. Lucy and Susan were following Aslan and then helping Him gather the rest of the troops (oh, He brought those who had been turned to stone back to life - but Lucy & Susan helped Him find them.)

After Aslan killed Jadis, the four Pevensies were coronated as Kings and Queens. We don't know exactly how long it had been since they all arrived - but the way it reads, it was days, not weeks. Very eventful days! So, they really hadn't had time to think about going home. Now, put yourself in their place - an evil Witch was just killed by a Lion (who had been killed by the same witch - and He conquered death) and He makes you and your siblings Kings and Queens of the land He just saved. Are you really going to say, "Thanks so much, and I'm really very flattered that you picked us to rule the place, but we need to go home. Oh, we know that some of the witch's army escaped, but the Narnians will have to fend for themselves - we're out of here."

Aslan made them rulers - that isn't exactly something that you take lightly. I don't think I'd tell Aslan - "see ya! I'm going home now."

I also think that they might have thought about their parents and home in the beginning, but after a while, Narnia was their reality and their responsibility and Earth became like a dream.

Plus, there is every indication that the doorway through the wardrobe wasn't always there - otherwise, someone who belonged to Narnia might have stumbled on it at some point during their reign. So, even if they had tried to go back at some earlier point, they wouldn't have been able to until Aslan was ready to send them back. (And by the time He was ready, they had been there so long, they really didn't think about Earth much - until they passed the lamppost.)