Costumes in TSC: Narnians, Giants, and Underlanders

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Costumes in TSC: Narnians, Giants, and Underlanders

Postby ValiantArcher » Jul 26, 2014 9:23 am

We already have threads to discuss Jill, the Lady of the Green Kirtle, and Ramandu's Daughter in The Silver Chair, but what about all the secondary characters? What will the Narnian court look like? How will fashion have changed from the Telmarine court? What will the Harfang Giants wear? How will the stone giants be dressed? What about the Underlanders? Since they live underground, will their outfits be warm and heavy or cool and light?

Personally, since Bism is a lovely warm place with fire and bright colours and living gems and gold, I like the idea of the enslaved Underlanders being dressed in dull, heavier clothes. I'm not sure how heavy the material should actually be (the Lady of the Green Kirtle isn't likely to have given them wool or furs!), but several layers would be good, just enough to allow them to handle the colder temperatures nearer the surface without letting them be too comfortable.
I also favour the stone giants looking more ragged and weathered than the Harfang giants, as if they've been living out in the elements for quite a while; they're at a different level of civilization than the Harfang giants. :)

Feel free to also discuss the English costumes (including the Experiment House), Marshwiggle outfits, and anything else that fits in. :)
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Re: Costumes in TSC: Narnians, Giants, and Underlanders

Postby The Rose-Tree Dryad » Jul 29, 2014 12:05 pm

Interesting idea for a thread! :ymapplause:

As for the Underlanders, I think I'd like to see them in some sort of armor, at least initially. Pauline Baynes' drew them wearing tunic-like outfits (they actually look a bit like pajamas on one of the covers) and while I usually love her illustrations, I feel like their clothing contributed to the Gnomes seeming non-threatening. They are about to invade Narnia, after all, so it would make sense that they're dressed for battle. That would make them seem much more intimidating to Jill, Eustace and Puddleglum, without having to make them more intimidating than they actually are—i.e., swapping out their despairing, hopeless voices for brutish and vicious ones.

I also like the idea of the giants near the River Shribble looking more "uncivilized" than their Harfang counterparts, so to speak. Jill originally mistook one of them for a mountain, and I like the idea of them blending into their surroundings and wearing a lot of earth-tones. As for the Harfang giants, I'd imagine that a lot of their clothes would be very garish. (Just take a look at the illustration of their queen, who is probably their trendsetter!) I feel like the costume designers could definitely draw some inspiration from the "future fashions" link that Meltintalle posted in Fabulous Fashion over in the Spare Oom. ;))
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Re: Costumes in TSC: Narnians, Giants, and Underlanders

Postby Meltintalle » Jul 29, 2014 2:25 pm

Every time I see the storm giant scene in The Hobbit I can't help but think of the Shribble giants...

Perhaps the giants would be less humanoid than we expect? I'm not sure how walking mountains would translate into garish walking mountains, but that would be different. :p


(The illustration you mentioned of the Harfang queen reminds me of the inspiration for this Star Wars prequel gown. And the BBC gave the Harfang giants a Russian flavor. )
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Re: Costumes in TSC: Narnians, Giants, and Underlanders

Postby ValiantArcher » Jul 29, 2014 8:20 pm

I wouldn't be opposed to the stone giants actually looking like they were made of stone (I think the same thing with the storm giants). ;))

Good point about the Underlander's clothes in the illustrations, The Rose-Tree Dryad! They don't look threatening at all, and yet Rillian, Puddleglum, Eustace, and Jill were very nervous and a bit frightened of them when they tried to leave. Some in armour would make sense, though I'd think they'd ditch the armour by the time the LotGK is killed and their enchantment broken.

I'm not so keen on the idea of the Harfang Giants being that garish. I mean, it'd make some sense when they seem friendly, but will they look that intimidating once their plans to eat the travelers are discovered? I'm not sure, I just feel like there could be a different take on their outfits?

(I am not remembering the BBC's Russian flavour, Mel...)
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Re: Costumes in TSC: Narnians, Giants, and Underlanders

Postby aileth » Jul 29, 2014 9:46 pm

I remember being disappointed with the gnomes in the BBC film. They all looked the same--their heads, that is. Now maybe their clothes should be the same to give a sense of uniformity and mindless obedience (armour sounds like a reasonable idea) but then they could cast it off as they neared Bism and reveal that they had their own tastes concealed by the enchantment. I don't think they would need very many clothes in the heat of Bism.
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Re: Costumes in TSC: Narnians, Giants, and Underlanders

Postby The Rose-Tree Dryad » Jul 30, 2014 12:26 pm

You also mentioned general Narnian style in your opening post... I'd imagine that it would be something of a mix between Telmarine, old Narnian and Ramandu's Daughter's style. They'll doubtless be inspired to look more Narnian, now that the country is united once more and the Pevensies have walked among them, and I think there's a very good chance that Lilliandil's style will have an influence as well. It seems like members of royalty are frequently the most prolific among trendsetters.

Maybe more empire waists and sleeveless styles, since those were both elements of her gown in VDT? I don't know if most Narnian/Telmarine women would be daring enough to go with sleeveless dresses, though, and it would seem like a rather strong departure from previous Narnian/Telmarine styles. Maybe sheer or slit sleeves instead? Or maybe even lace! I love lace sleeves.

Meltintalle wrote:(The illustration you mentioned of the Harfang queen reminds me of the inspiration for this Star Wars prequel gown.


Oh wow! It definitely looks as though Pauline Baynes was drawing some inspiration from Mongolian styles with that design. That's really cool! :ymapplause:

ValiantArcher wrote:Some in armour would make sense, though I'd think they'd ditch the armour by the time the LotGK is killed and their enchantment broken.


That idea crossed my mind as well! I think it would be a nice way to reveal their true selves, so to speak.

ValiantArcher wrote:I'm not so keen on the idea of the Harfang Giants being that garish. I mean, it'd make some sense when they seem friendly, but will they look that intimidating once their plans to eat the travelers are discovered? I'm not sure, I just feel like there could be a different take on their outfits?


That's true! I think the reason why I like the idea of them looking silly and garish is because it makes it understandable why Jill, Eustace and Puddleglum—and the audience—wouldn't take them seriously. It would make it all the more creepy when the giants' true intentions are discovered. At that point, what looked silly and garish before will just be creepy and rather disturbing; almost verging on monstrous.

aileth wrote:Now maybe their clothes should be the same to give a sense of uniformity and mindless obedience (armour sounds like a reasonable idea) but then they could cast it off as they neared Bism and reveal that they had their own tastes concealed by the enchantment. I don't think they would need very many clothes in the heat of Bism.


Oooh, what if their old clothes, underneath the armor, shone bright and sparkling in the light from the rift? Something that hearkens to the living jewels growing down in Bism would be really neat. :D
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Re: Costumes in TSC: Narnians, Giants, and Underlanders

Postby Meltintalle » Jul 30, 2014 7:27 pm

Valia wrote:(I am not remembering the BBC's Russian flavour, Mel...)
(You don't remember the babushka nanny? I don't have any screencaps handy, sorry. )

I'm not sure if garish is exactly the word I want... I don't mean clownish, persay, just brightly colored and at least semi-fashionable. Personable in a very large way, and believable that they're about to have a festival and of course they'll be happy to include random strangers...

Rose wrote:Oooh, what if their old clothes, underneath the armor, shone bright and sparkling in the light from the rift? Something that hearkens to the living jewels growing down in Bism would be really neat. :D
That is a splendid idea! And such a visual contrast between the dark and dismal nomes and their jolly personalities. Two thumbs up. :ymapplause:
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Re: Costumes in TSC: Narnians, Giants, and Underlanders

Postby The Rose-Tree Dryad » Jul 30, 2014 8:12 pm

Meltintalle wrote:(You don't remember the babushka nanny? I don't have any screencaps handy, sorry. )


Is this her?

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Mel wrote:I'm not sure if garish is exactly the word I want... I don't mean clownish, persay, just brightly colored and at least semi-fashionable. Personable in a very large way, and believable that they're about to have a festival and of course they'll be happy to include random strangers...


I think that's a good description, although clownish sometimes doesn't seem that far off-the-mark when you think about the Queen's powdered face... between that and her fashion sense, I imagine she'll probably be the most terrifying of them all. ;))
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Re: Costumes in TSC: Narnians, Giants, and Underlanders

Postby Meltintalle » Jul 30, 2014 8:40 pm

That's her, Rose. Good find. :) It might be more her blouse and vest combination than the headscarf that give the sort of Russian flavor, but hopefully you see what I mean?
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Re: Costumes in TSC: Narnians, Giants, and Underlanders

Postby ValiantArcher » Jul 31, 2014 8:43 am

Oooh, I really like the idea of the Gnomes' clothes under their armour being their own and reflecting Bism, aileth! :D Bright jewel colours might be nice.

I like the idea of drawing some inspiration from Lilliandal's dress in VDT, The Rose-Tree Dryad! Empire waist would be very different, though I'm not seeing sleeveless either; Narnia is cooler than the island, I'd wager, and especially by the end of TSC when it's winter. Sheer or lace sleeves might work.

But what about drawing inspiration from the Italian Renaissance? Something with an empire waist, kind of flowing but narrow skirt, and maybe slightly puffed sleeves? I don't have any pictures off the top of my head, and I don't have a chance to look now, but think something along the lines of, oh, maybe Ever After or the Dolls of the World Italian Renaissance Barbie?

Ooh, so more like a Harlequin or a medieval festival rather than garish for the Harfang Giants, Mel? And I hadn't been thinking of the Nanny, but I do kind of see what you mean about her and the Russian flavour. I remember having more of an old German impression, but I honestly didn't pay that much attention and could be entirely off-base. :ymblushing:
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Re: Costumes in TSC: Narnians, Giants, and Underlanders

Postby The Rose-Tree Dryad » Jul 31, 2014 11:26 am

ValiantArcher wrote:I like the idea of drawing some inspiration from Lilliandal's dress in VDT, The Rose-Tree Dryad! Empire waist would be very different, though I'm not seeing sleeveless either; Narnia is cooler than the island, I'd wager, and especially by the end of TSC when it's winter. Sheer or lace sleeves might work.


That's true! I was just looking at some of Prunaprismia's gowns from Prince Caspian, and noticed that she had lace elements on the sleeves of one of her dresses. It looks sheer sleeves were already in fashion in a limited way. Also, since that design was an off-the-shoulder style and Susan's farewell dress was as well, we may be seeing more of that kind of neckline, too. Between that and Lilliandil, showing more of the arms in general is probably a reasonable guess.

Valia wrote:But what about drawing inspiration from the Italian Renaissance? Something with an empire waist, kind of flowing but narrow skirt, and maybe slightly puffed sleeves? I don't have any pictures off the top of my head, and I don't have a chance to look now, but think something along the lines of, oh, maybe Ever After or the Dolls of the World Italian Renaissance Barbie?


Ooh, I really like that idea! Maybe something like this? I like the fact that it's quite different from the dress styles of the Golden Age, while still looking very medieval. :)

Speaking of Narnian styles... one of the few Narnian females we get much of a description of is the willow dryad that attends to Jill at Cair Paravel. Provided that she's not cut out of the movie and is an actual corporeal person, what do you guys think she would wear?
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Re: Costumes in TSC: Narnians, Giants, and Underlanders

Postby Meltintalle » Jul 31, 2014 3:46 pm

I don't actually have a good mental benchmark for old German fashions (except Landsknecht) so you could be right, Valia. But yeah, more medieval festival for the giants.

If we get a corporeal dryad (pleaseohplease wouldn't that be nice?) I think her outfit would incorporate the general fashion of the Narnian court, except also in a more leaf-looking fashion. Like, she'd have an overskirt that reminds one of trailing willows... Something rather like this and/or the center second to bottom row of this concept sheet.
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Re: Costumes in TSC: Narnians, Giants, and Underlanders

Postby The Rose-Tree Dryad » Jul 31, 2014 4:42 pm

Honestly, those Landsknecht designs look like they might be a nice influence on Harfang style as well. They're loud but simple at the same time, and that's kind of the impression I get from the Harfang giants.

Ooh, the skirt on the first dress is so neat! I love what she did with her hair; I can definitely imagine the willow dryad's tresses looking like that. (Reminds me a little bit of Waterhouse's Ophelia.) The dress on the second link is gorgeous! I wonder if they could almost do something with pleating or streams of fabric that would look evocative of trailing willow branches? So many possibilities. :ymdaydream:
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Re: Costumes in TSC: Narnians, Giants, and Underlanders

Postby Meltintalle » Jul 31, 2014 4:57 pm

Yes, in looking for dryad costume examples I saw more lovely hair concepts than dresses. A lot of them were quite skimpy. :(

I did see one that looked more like they were cosplaying an ent; the very barky look is an interesting angle too. It doesn't exactly lend itself to flowing dresses at first glance, but...birches and willows have flexible bark...
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Re: Costumes in TSC: Narnians, Giants, and Underlanders

Postby The Rose-Tree Dryad » Jul 31, 2014 8:05 pm

Ooh, I can imagine her wearing some sort of leathery or suede-y bodice or corset in a soft gray-brown; that would sort of mimic the bark. And then pair that with lots of flowing, soft green fabrics.

I've always really liked Pauline Baynes' dryad illustrations; the one of the beech dryad is very beautiful and I love her dress. Of course, we have to take into account the fact that she's a beech dryad and not a willow dryad, but I wouldn't mind it at all if SC's dryad wore something similar.

Still, you wouldn't think that a courtier at Cair Paravel would look quite so... wild as the beech dryad does, if that makes sense. I think, in that setting, it's easier for me to imagine her wearing an outfit that is stylistically similar to what the other women there are wearing, except markedly different in the use of fabrics, colors, flow and accessories.

Perhaps a dress that says, "You can take the dryad out of the woods, but you can't take the woods out of the dryad." ;))
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Re: Costumes in TSC: Narnians, Giants, and Underlanders

Postby ValiantArcher » Aug 07, 2014 7:05 pm

The Rose-Tree Dryad, yes, that's something like what I was thinking (in style/silhouette at least) of for the Narnian Court. :D I am also open for a wider neckline, but I'm not sure how I feel about completely or mostly off the shoulder neckline/sleeves...

;)) Yeah, I don't have a good idea of old German fashions either, Mel. It was just an old impression...

Oooh, a corporeal dryad! Good question! I like the designs that Mel linked to,
especially the second (so gorgeous!). If the dryad is in the Narnian Court, definitely more elegance and neatness than messy, nature-inspired.
And I like the idea of a similar style to the other ladies of the Narnian Court, but the fabrics and colours setting her apart. :) Emm, does anyone remember what the willows look like during the autumn/winter? Do they look at all different depending on the season? (I can't remember if they lose leaves or branches at all... :ymblushing: ) It might be neat to play around with her having lighter fabric and brighter colours when it's autumn, and then heavier and darker when Jill returns to Cair Paravel at the end. And maybe a bark-like cloak? I'm not sure, just throwing ideas around. ;))
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