Lady of the Green Kirtle

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Re: Lady of the Green Kirtle

Postby waggawerewolf27 » Jul 06, 2013 4:14 am

Lu_valient wrote:By "Green Kirtle" Lewis was probably talking about what LOTGK was wearing


Yes, a kirtle is something like a tunic or overskirt over a blouse or underskirt, something like an Austrian or German dirndl with an attached bodice. I've seen several green kirtles, including Barbara Kellerman as LOTGK, on google images, when I did a search for green kirtles, though I prefer the longer, plainer and darker ones myself.

A Celtic look is quite a good idea due to the sorts of snakey, swirling Celtic designs one sees in Scotland on jewellery, on Celtic crosses and inscription etc. Maybe, that might be the pattern, if any, on either her kirtle or her underskirt. I'd say that the LOTGK did not have really bright hair. More of a russet shade or maybe her hair might be bound into one of those Medieval headdresses that go under the chin so that nobody sees what colour hair she has. Barbara Kellerman did look marvellous in her LOTGK costume, but I think that the outfit the Lady of the Green Kirtle should be coloured olive, forest or leaf green, shining like poison, maybe, when she wants to be seen, but which would allow her to blend in with the foliage for fast getaways.
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Re: Lady of the Green Kirtle

Postby Meltintalle » Aug 02, 2013 8:17 am

I spotted this gown in a collection of Scarlet O'Hara inspired dresses, but it does look fit for an underground queen, doesn't it?

drawing of the same
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Re: Lady of the Green Kirtle

Postby ValiantArcher » Sep 07, 2013 5:53 pm

Oooh, that's beautiful, Mel! I could see a modified version of that for the LotGK! I'm not overly sure on the velvet for her---it seems too heavy and un-snakelike. Any thoughts, anyone? :)
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Re: Lady of the Green Kirtle

Postby Meltintalle » Jul 03, 2014 11:11 am

Velvet can be thick and unwieldy, but I'm sort of fond of the idea of it since she does live underground. What if it were embossed velvet?

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I'm pretty sure this is part of a rose design, but it kind of looks like snakeskin too. I love the idea of a design that looks like something else until you look close.
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Re: Lady of the Green Kirtle

Postby The Rose-Tree Dryad » Jul 03, 2014 12:33 pm

Wow, that Scarlet O'Hara-inspired dress really does look like something the Queen of Underland would be wearing in her final scene.

I love the idea of embossed velvet; just a shimmering hint of a design, but you can't tell that it's the pattern of a snakeskin until right before she turns into a serpent. If I remember correctly, her dress actually morphs into her body, so that would work quite well. Hmm, I don't know how well velvet would work, though, from a transitional standpoint, because snakes certainly aren't soft. :-? Maybe a smoother embossed fabric would be better?

I'm hopeful that the LotGK will wear three different dresses in The Silver Chair film. One for the flashback (if there is one), one for when she meets the questers at the giant bridge, and one for the scene in Underland.

I'd love for the flashback dress to look very simple and sweet, maybe in a light, soft shade of green. (Don't want people to immediately associate her with the poison-green serpent.) Wish I could find a picture of the look that I'm thinking of! Probably an empire waist with a fluid, flowing skirt, since a kirtle is supposed to be a loose-fitting dress. I'd love to see a lot of Grecian flair in the design. (She is, after all, somewhat inspired by Lamia from Greek mythology.) The dress could possibly include a sheer, flowing overlay that is evocative of a shedding skin as well.

Not really sure about the dress that she would wear when she's out riding, though it needs to be "scrumptious," as Jill said. I'm wondering if it should also be paired with a beautiful cloak, since it would probably fit the weather/terrain.
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Re: Lady of the Green Kirtle

Postby Meltintalle » Jul 10, 2014 12:34 pm

Rose wrote:Maybe a smoother embossed fabric would be better?
Well, maybe, but then it wouldn't be embossed. Embossing crushes the pile of the velvet--you know how it feels smooth one way and then you can rub it the other way?--and I don't think there's anything else quite like it. There are different methods of dying fabrics that could give you the uneven snakeskin-type patterning... Or cut-work...that's often floral and it can be quite light and airy.

Maybe we're barking up the wrong tree with the light, flowing stuff. After all, snakeskin isn't all that flexible. What if her design was more stiff and starched and almost angular (similar to how the White Witch had very sculptured dresses)?
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Re: Lady of the Green Kirtle

Postby The Rose-Tree Dryad » Jul 10, 2014 1:06 pm

Ah, gotcha. I'm not much of an expert on fabrics. ;))

Meltintalle wrote:Maybe we're barking up the wrong tree with the light, flowing stuff. After all, snakeskin isn't all that flexible.


That's an interesting thought! It would be interesting for the gown to be rather stiff and structured initially—hearkening back to "dead", treated snakeskin—and then become shockingly flexible and alive when she begins to transform. I'm having a hard time imagining exactly what it would look like, though. :-?

I saw this painting and immediately thought of the Lady of the Green Kirtle. It looks like a heavier gown, and I can definitely imagine her wearing something like that when she appears for her final scene. She would make quite an impression! Even the accessories, too; for a woman who is going to transform into a serpent, a thick braid (?) bound with gold might be a nice touch. Vaguely evocative of Medusa.

I also ran across this painting and thought the dress looked like something the serpentine LotGK would wear, but I wonder if it wouldn't be too over-the-top.
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Re: Lady of the Green Kirtle

Postby Meltintalle » Jul 10, 2014 6:53 pm

I can't quite imagine anything yet either, but I really like your description of the transformation. Perhaps the hem would be ragged, like a flaking skin...

I like the first painting for her riding dress. It looks like something where you'd trust the wearer at first and only later begin to wonder.
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Re: Lady of the Green Kirtle

Postby aileth » Jul 10, 2014 10:25 pm

The Rose-Tree Dryad wrote:I also ran across this painting and thought the dress looked like something the serpentine LotGK would wear, but I wonder if it wouldn't be too over-the-top.


The first one, yes, the second one--ugh! Not that I think you are wrong--it could work quite well but--ugh!

The hair style of the first matches the Pauline Baynes illustration to a remarkable degree--just stick a mandolin in her hands, a whiff of green powder, and she'd be ready to go--sweet, gentle expression and everything.
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Re: Lady of the Green Kirtle

Postby Meltintalle » Jul 14, 2014 8:29 am

I really like the textures and embroidery on this 1580s doublet and can easily imagine a skirt and sleeves to go with it. Scrumptious!

Or maybe it's the basis of a complimentary outfit for Rillian.
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Re: Lady of the Green Kirtle

Postby The Rose-Tree Dryad » Jul 17, 2014 1:37 pm

Meltintalle wrote:I can't quite imagine anything yet either, but I really like your description of the transformation. Perhaps the hem would be ragged, like a flaking skin...


Ooh, that sounds rather pretty!

aileth wrote:The first one, yes, the second one--ugh! Not that I think you are wrong--it could work quite well but--ugh!


I think I know what you mean. ;)) I'll be pretty upset if they have the LotGK show a lot of skin. She's not so much a seductive character as she a person who appears to be lovely and loveable. If they're really over-the-top with her costume design, then it'll tip people off that she's a Bad Lady.

Meltintalle wrote:I really like the textures and embroidery on this 1580s doublet and can easily imagine a skirt and sleeves to go with it. Scrumptious!

Or maybe it's the basis of a complimentary outfit for Rillian.


Oooh! That's absolutely beautiful. I can easily imagine that as being part of her riding outfit or, as you said, a complimentary outfit for Rilian. Although I do recall Lewis saying that he was dressed all in black when the questers met him in the Dark Castle. :-?
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Re: Lady of the Green Kirtle

Postby Anfinwen » Jul 23, 2014 6:15 pm

I know this thread is mostly for the LotGK's costume as a woman, but I can't resist posting pictures I found of a eyelash pit viper. The look (of the head at least) is so perfect!
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It would be so amazing if LotGK had really distinct lashes and then the snake looked like that.
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Re: Lady of the Green Kirtle

Postby The Rose-Tree Dryad » Jul 24, 2014 1:31 pm

Wow, Anfinwen, what a great find! I love the look of that snake species. Of course, I'd want it to be a poison green color, but those "eyelashes" are amazing and totally look like a feature that the LotGK's serpentine form would have. It would add some femininity to the appearance of the serpent as well. I also love the idea of her actress having very distinct eyelashes, since long eyelashes are often associated with youth and innocence.
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Re: Lady of the Green Kirtle

Postby The Rose-Tree Dryad » Jul 31, 2014 2:01 pm

Double-posting, but we were talking over on the Calormene Style thread about the possibility of drawing influence from some of the outfits found in John William Godward's paintings (here is an example), and it occurred to me that the style and fabric reminded me of something the Lady of the Green Kirtle might wear. The fabric looks very light and almost crinkled; kind of evocative of the look of a shedding skin, as we were discussing earlier. The dresses are loose, like a kirtle, and the styling is almost nymph-like as well. I can easily imagine the LotGK wearing something like that when she meets Rilian.
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Re: Lady of the Green Kirtle

Postby Meltintalle » Jul 31, 2014 3:19 pm

That is an interesting idea, Rose. I kind of like it! It would (potentially) be similar enough to things that Rillian and even Drinian are familiar with that they don't catch on to her ulterior motives. It seems the LotGK would try to fit in enough fashion-wise (unlike Jadis who is rather obviously doing her own fashion thing) to catch the unwary.
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Re: Lady of the Green Kirtle

Postby The Rose-Tree Dryad » Jun 23, 2015 2:42 pm

Something I thought about the other day: I hope that the fabric of the LotGK's dress has a slightly resplendent quality, either from jewels or the sheen of the fabric itself. I really love the idea of the folds of her dress softly, bewitchingly sparkling in the light of the green fire when she is playing her mandolin, and then suddenly turning dark and ominous-looking when Puddleglum has stamped out the flames—thus mirroring her own sudden, terrible change of disposition. I think that would be such a neat visual!
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