Crowns

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Re: Crowns

Postby GlimGlum » Nov 17, 2011 11:12 pm

Welcome to NarniaWeb, imzadi40. :ymapplause:

I don't know much about costumes but here is a link that may help to start with.

I am sure that Meltintalle (Costumes Moderator) and the regulars here would be able to help more. :)
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Re: Crowns

Postby Meltintalle » Nov 18, 2011 10:54 am

Depending on your skill level and the amount of work you're willing to put into the project, imzadi40, you may also find this tutorial helpful!

A third suggestion would be to find fabric flowers and spray paint them silver; I think I've seen that done but I can't remember where. ;))

Let us know how you get on, and good luck! :D
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Re: Crowns

Postby imzadi40 » Nov 18, 2011 11:31 pm

Thanks! I checked out the link, and it was a great help. Thanks, GlimGlum!
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Re: Crowns

Postby imzadi40 » Nov 30, 2011 6:40 pm

Well, I've started to make Lucy's LWW crown, though I have NO CLUE what I'm doing. GlimGlum and Mellintalle gave me some links that were helpful, but what I'm doing I'm just doing by guessing at it. I am using some Sculpey III modeling clay (the American version of Fimo), and I bought a tiara circlet base to attach everything to.

So far I have, I think, all the leaves cut out and am now doing the small yellow/gold dots. Next I'll cut out all the flowers and get them done. When I get the circlet (it isn't here yet,) I'll bake all the clay pieces and somehow glue them onto it into a similar pattern as Lucy's crown. When I get it done, I'll show pictures of it, if it turns out okay.
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Re: Crowns

Postby The Just King » Nov 30, 2011 8:23 pm

I'm looking forward to this! :D :D
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Re: Crowns

Postby AslansChild » Dec 03, 2011 3:20 pm

So am I. imzadi40...I have some Sculpey clay and memory wire, so if your crown turns out alright, I might be brave enough to make my own. Maybe...I'm scared! Please keep us posted!
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Re: Crowns

Postby Varnafinde » Jul 22, 2012 6:10 pm

Daughter_of_Ramandu wrote:Girls don't wear crowns, they wear tiaras. ;)


But don't these girls - Susan and Lucy - wear crowns, because they are ruling queens and wear them as a sign of their position, not just as jewellery?

MountainFireflower wrote:Actually, what do you think happened to the crowns after the Pevensies chased the White Stag and got back into England? Do you think they were lost? Or were they found along with the Pevensies' four gifts from Father Christmas?


I think they were found, just as Susan's horn was found. The other gifts from Father Christmas were probably kept at the Cair, it seems that only Susan was taking hers along on the hunt for the White Stag (at least, she's the only one who mentions it in PC).
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Re: Crowns

Postby Anfinwen » Jul 23, 2012 4:44 pm

I found this headband/tiara that looks similar to Lucy's.

http://www.victoriantradingco.com/store ... 19591.html

Varnafinde wrote:But don't these girls - Susan and Lucy - wear crowns, because they are ruling queens and wear them as a sign of their position, not just as jewellery?


I think their's would be called coronets. The definition is: a small or relatively simple crown, esp. as worn by lesser royalty and peers or peeresses.
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In between the suits of armour, and on each side of the path, were shelves covered with precious things - necklaces and arm rings and finger rings and golden bowls and dishes and long tusks of ivory, brooches and coronets and chains of gold, and heaps of unset stones lying piled anyhow as if they were marbles or potatoes - diamonds, rubies, carbuncles, emeralds, topazes, and amethysts.


In the book it doesn't say that they wore their official headgear on the hunting party, which, now that I think about it, does seem kind of over the top and ridiculous. Their crowns/coronets probably were in the treasure chamber.
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Re: Crowns

Postby Meltintalle » Jul 26, 2012 1:39 pm

The Lady Arwen Undómiel wrote:I think their's would be called coronets. The definition is: a small or relatively simple crown, esp. as worn by lesser royalty
Despite the quote from PC (well spotted, btw!) I would hold that the girls wore crowns. They were all rulers together and I don't think any Narnian would dare consider them lesser royalty. (Either that, or only Peter wore a crown because he was the High King over all the Kings and Queens in Narnia.) But that's as much personal preference as anything. :)
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Re: Crowns

Postby The Just King » Jul 27, 2012 7:49 am

Notice too that crowns are mainly used for coronations. They tend to be heavy things. I imagine that royalty would wear coronets for daily use, with the neck-breaking crowns being reserved for ceremonial duties.

Perhaps that's just my perception of it.

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Re: Crowns

Postby Varnafinde » Jul 27, 2012 5:04 pm

In our world, coronets aren't much used at all. English nobles who have the right to wear a coronet, are only supposed to wear them during a coronation. When the king or queen has been crowned, the nobles put on their own coronets as well. And after the coronation, they don't wear them again until the next coronation. Some don't even have one made, because it would be used so little.

The Queen of England uses her heavy crown once a year (I think only once a year), as you say for ceremonial duty, at the Opening of Parliament. For parties she wears a tiara, and for daily use she wears a hat.

(In Norway, the crowns haven't been used since the coronation in 1905. The current King has never worn his crown. It's only on display.)

I don't think Narnian royalty would wear hats - it would make sense for them to have something light for daily use, like coronets, or perhaps nothing at all. The movie crowns would have been light enough even for daily use. The BBC crowns were the heavy type, only for ceremonial duties - but they were crowns even for Susan and Lucy.
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Re: Crowns

Postby waggawerewolf27 » Jul 05, 2013 11:49 pm

I read your post with interest, Varnafinde, especially as since you last posted, three things have happened. We paid another visit to the Tower of London and Buckingham Palace in September last year. At Buckingham Palace there was an exhibition of the Queens tiaras some of which she wears on Australian coins etc. The second thing to happen was the abdication of Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands, and the inauguration of her son, Willem Alexander as the new king about 1st May 2013. And the third was the 60th anniversary of Queen Elizabeth II's coronation in June. When the original event happened C.S.Lewis was in the middle of publishing his Narnia series, and I am not at all sure that George VI's death and the coronation did not have significant influence on his Narnia series.

Though I agree that the king of Norway has dispensed with fancy coronations, unlike the British, I'd have to say he is no Robinson Crusoe in post-WW2 Europe. The Dutch inauguration was quite unexpectedly casual, despite the balls, banquets and formal dress of crown princes, and I don't think any of the other European monarchies have anything so formal as Queen Elizabeth II had 2 June 1953. That was a religious service which very much pushed the idea that Queen Elizabeth II was to be queen for life. Just as the Pevensies were told "once a king or queen of Narnia, always a king or queen of Narnia". I've some other observations to make in general.

1.There are some occasions when a noble would wear his/her coronet other than at a coronation. Charles, the Prince of Wales, had to get a new coronet made when he was appointed to that position by his mother because the previous Prince of Wales had run off with it. By implication, when someone succeeds to a title they might get to wear the coronet when the appointment is made official.

2. It is true that Queen Elizabeth II only wears the Imperial State Crown for the opening of each session of the UK parliament, but the crown used to crown most British monarchs is the St Edward's crown, which is unused otherwise. It was dusted down and given an airing for the Coronation anniversary church service. These even look very heavy things to wear, and last May our 87 year old Queen looked quite bowed down by its weight when opening Parliament. The Imperial State Crown is nowhere near as old as others in European museums. Oliver Cromwell's Roundheads demolished much of the previous UK crown jewels, though the Honours of Scotland still remain.

No wonder then that Pauline Baynes would have had no difficulty in drawing Narnian kings wearing in all sorts of situations, the much lighter, more wearable, even helmet-like crowns, in use before Oliver Cromwell. A case in point is King Lune wearing his crown whilst out hunting, and Prince Cor wearing a circlet to visit Aravis at the Hermit's place.

3. Tiaras get worn a good deal more frequently, as you remarked. Many of them have been around for a fair while, despite wars, revolutions, pillage and the dethroning of original owners. Sometimes these tiaras can be taken to pieces to form necklaces and other jewellery. One favourite tiara the Queen often wears is this one in which the emerald drops can be interchanged with pearl ones.

4. Most nobility have their own family tiaras, which are worn for weddings as well as other formal occasions, such as the Duke of Northumberland's daughter Melissa, who a week or so ago was the bride at Alnwick castle. Diana, Princess of Wales also had a family tiara, since her father, and now her brother, was Earl of Spencer. The Queen seems to have a tiara lending service which the Countess of Wessex and Duchesses of Cambridge and Cornwall have all used. At the Dutch abdication and inauguration all the crown princesses were wearing a range of tiarasregardless of whether they were consorts or heirs to the throne in their own right. This included not only Crown Princess Mette-Marit of Norway, who looked really nice, but also the Crown Princess of Brunei who wore a tall tiara over her hijab.

I'd imagine that tiaras would be worn frequently by Narnian and other Queens, especially as I would think they would be much more imaginative, decorative and artistic. For a movie you wouldn't need real jewellery anyway.

5. Lastly, the Queen is never seen publicly without a hat, or at least a scarf. And there are rules about others wearing hats on formal occasions. They have to ensure that their hats are smaller, or left off altogether. There is another reason why Narnian humans would wear hats, even without a crown - the weather is colder in Narnia in winter, just like in UK & Norway. :D
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