14 – The Bottom of the World

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14 – The Bottom of the World

Postby Pattertwigs Pal » Jul 09, 2017 6:30 pm

1. What does it say about Prince Rilian that he wants to go down into Bism?

2. Do you agree with Eustace that Reepicheep would advocate for going down to Bism?

3. Rilian blames his pride and fantasy for delaying them at Bism. Do you think pride and fantasy were also motivations for Caspian’s desire to go on at the End of the World? Why or why not?

4. What most appeals to you about Bism?

5. Would you be interested in visiting Bism?

6. Discuss how this chapter should be adapted. (ex. what do you most want to see, what problems do you see, etc.)
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Re: 14 – The Bottom of the World

Postby waggawerewolf27 » Jul 18, 2017 5:18 pm

1. What does it say about Prince Rilian that he wants to go down into Bism?

I think it suggests that even before his mother was killed that Prince Rilian might well have held his father, Caspian X, in awe, both for ousting Miraz and for undertaking that VDT voyage to Ramandu's Island. But I doubt that Rilian was actually close to his father, maybe because Caspian was bogged down in work all too often. Maybe Rilian also wanted to do something a bit spectacular to live up to his father's reputation. Being enchanted for 10 years by LOTGK can't be much to talk about.

2. Do you agree with Eustace that Reepicheep would advocate for going down to Bism?

No I don't.
Yes Reepicheep was on a mission in VDT to go to the world's end, and of course he did, as Eustace well knew. And yes it was Reepicheep who urged that the Dawn Treader should proceed into the Dark Island's environs in VDT, even though the humans on board would rather have given that island a miss.
It is this that Eustace is referring to, but he seems to have forgotten
the incident where Caspian was preventing Reepicheep from achieving his mission to the utter East.


However, personal missions are one thing, and spur of the moment temptations are quite something else.
The Dawn Treader, with its Kingly supercargo, was on a mission to seek out the seven missing lords, and yes, on the Dark Island they did find one. Lord Rhoop, whose name Caspian kept forgetting, was stranded on that island, and the arrival of the Dawn Treader gave him his chance to escape. Caspian was then given new instructions, that in order to release both the recuperating Lord Rhoop, and the other three missing lords from an enchanted sleep, the Dawn Treader must continue its journey to the World's End, then, leaving one member of the ship's complement behind it must return to Ramandu's Island.


That person was Reepicheep, who was pledged already to do so, and had already turned his own leadership responsibilities over to Peepiceek. He said no, Caspian had to return to Narnia, that to do otherwise would be wrong, and a desertion of his duty as King. As well as Reepicheep, Eustace, Lucy and Edmund had to return with him to the World's End.
As exciting as Bism might look to explore, Reepicheep would have been horrified at Rilian's going there, having just been released from a ten-year enchantment, to enable him to return to Narnia to succeed Caspian.

3. Rilian blames his pride and fantasy for delaying them at Bism. Do you think pride and fantasy were also motivations for Caspian’s desire to go on at the End of the World? Why or why not?

No, I don't think so.
Caspian was on a mission in VDT, and had to fulfil it. He happened upon old friends en route to help him do so, and when they had to go with Reepicheep to the World's End, Caspian was loath to let go of their companionship. Pride and fantasy might have been part of his desire to go on, but I think that curiosity about the rest of his world, plus about the world his friends came from played a much greater part in his desire to continue to the End of the world.
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Re: 14 – The Bottom of the World

Postby shastastwin » Jul 19, 2017 9:28 am

Twig's wrote:4. What most appeals to you about Bism?


The sheer otherness of the place -- the way it's so unlike what I've experienced before and has such a different view on life.

That's something I've noticed pops up quite a bit in this book, moreso than any other Narnia book, I think -- the concept of other people's views on life not being wrong just because they are different. The owls, the Marshwiggles, the giants, and the gnomes all have vastly different views on life from the children and (with the exception of the giants) these views are never presented as wrong. Simply different. I hope that the film is able to keep that thread going throughout, though I worry we're going to lose Bism altogether.
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Re: 14 – The Bottom of the World

Postby Ryadian » Jul 25, 2017 3:10 pm

1. What does it say about Prince Rilian that he wants to go down into Bism?
It makes you wonder if Rilian ever felt like he was living in his father's shadow, and if he wanted to live up to it by having an adventure of his own. But, I'm more inclined to see it as his own natural sense of adventure - perhaps inherited and/or encouraged by his father, but I'm not inclined to think that he wanted to go to Bism for the sole purpose of having that credit to his name to compare with his father's legacy.

2. Do you agree with Eustace that Reepicheep would advocate for going down to Bism?
Not if he knew the circumstances. Jill's mission was to bring Rilian back to Narnia, or die in the attempt; I think Reepicheep would recognize the value of finishing the task Aslan had put before them before seeking their own adventure. I imagine he too would probably long to have gone to the depths and seen them for himself, but he would have his priorities straight. (After all, as wagga pointed out,
Reepicheep was one of the ones who tried to convince Caspian that he couldn't go to the world's end because he had other duties.


3. Rilian blames his pride and fantasy for delaying them at Bism. Do you think pride and fantasy were also motivations for Caspian’s desire to go on at the End of the World? Why or why not?
If this is referring to
when Caspian wanted to keep going with Reepicheep past the point of no return,
probably, though I suspect with Caspian, the possibility of getting to Aslan's country was also tempting in and of itself.


4. What most appeals to you about Bism?
Golg's description of the "living gems". That's so fascinating to me! It makes me kind of hope, if it works in the script, that we might perhaps get a scene of Bism in an epilogue so we can see more of that. ;)) (I will understand if they don't, and perhaps it would make leaving Bism behind more powerful to have had heard such a glowing (pardon the pun ;) ) description but never get to see it.)

5. Would you be interested in visiting Bism?
Well... the heat seems like it'd be a bit much for me. ;)) Interesting how it's never really addressed whether or not humans would even be able to survive down there - I wonder if that's why Aslan didn't give them an opportunity to go? Again, though, that image of the gems that you can eat and drink.... I certainly want to see it, though I'm not sure I'd enjoy spending much time there. ;))

6. Discuss how this chapter should be adapted. (ex. what do you most want to see, what problems do you see, etc.)
I do wonder how they're going to handle the description of Bism. Having Golg describe its wonder works in a book, but not so much in a movie. But since the characters never get to go down there, we kind of need that description. I just hope they don't just cut it out entirely - that would be a complete shame. :(
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Re: 14 – The Bottom of the World

Postby waggawerewolf27 » Jul 28, 2017 10:52 pm

4. What most appeals to you about Bism?

Ryadian wrote:Golg's description of the "living gems". That's so fascinating to me! It makes me kind of hope, if it works in the script, that we might perhaps get a scene of Bism in an epilogue so we can see more of that


Just like Ryadian, above, how could I pass Golg's description of the gems. ? Especially as such gems are so valued in real life. So much so, that gems often inspire the names of paints, car ducos, companies, and much else. There used to be a series of flavoured lip balms at our chemist, just for little girls. And old girls like myself, I guess. :ymblushing: They came in varieties, like Ruby Raspberry, Spearmint Sapphire or Emerald Menthol, not to mention Topaz Toffee. Or something of the sort. When I tried them at the time, I did think about Golg, his living gems and his treating Rilian to a taste of Ruby juice. :D

Shastatwin's comment about the "sheer otherness of Bism" is also fascinating - a "Really Deep Land, a thousand fathoms under us." Also Golg's description of "real gold, real silver, real diamonds". Is that what was significant about the Silver Chair? That it was made of "dead silver"? That what LOTGK was offering Prince Rilian, along with her hand in marriage, was a dead throne, a dead kingdom and cold, dead treasures, bought with his mother's blood?

5. Would you be interested in visiting Bism?

It would be interesting to view from a height, but no. Jill, of course, disliked being underground, but even Eustace seemed not put off by the height of the chasm that had opened. Given that the chasm was about to close, how would anyone get away from Bism, once their visit was at an end? Again we see that triad of responses to events from each of our travellers, mentioned in previous chapters. Jill dreads the mere idea of going to Bism, whatever its attractions. Eustace is half inclined to go adventuring along with Prince Rilian, whilst Puddleglum is the voice of reason. It is why I see him as a true hero.

6. Discuss how this chapter should be adapted. (ex. what do you most want to see, what problems do you see, etc.)

The main problem for this chapter is how much of it will be in the movie at all, if the script allows. Will Golg be allowed any sort of explanation of who the gnomes were? Let alone the marvellously inventive stained glass picture of the living gems? Or Rilian's temptation? Or the jubilation of the earthmen that they are finally released from their service to the Queen of the Underworld.

For even if briefly, that is what it would be nice to see, whilst hearing Golg's explanations, perhaps, even as they farewell Golg, amid a voiceover of the chasm closing.
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Re: 14 – The Bottom of the World

Postby Hwinning » Aug 15, 2017 9:08 am

5. Would you be interested in visiting Bism?
I would be interested in visiting, but I want to come back up eventually and there doesn't see like a way back up.

6. Discuss how this chapter should be adapted. (ex. what do you most want to see, what problems do you see, etc.)

In the last chapter, they capture one gnome alone. Instead of this, I kind of want them to capture one and then find themselves surrounded by 100 gnomes. Then, when the gnomes find out the questers are friends, they carry/crowd surf them on their shoulders whilst singing about how great Bism is, dancing, doing cartwheels, etc. Jill, Eustace, Puddleglum, and Rilian are all super confused, but they don't feel threatened or scared. Then, as they get closer to Bism, they see gnomes jumping into this chasm (they can't see Bism yet because its blocked by gnomes and they're partially laying down because they're kind of crowd surfing). Now, the questers panic (FOR A MOMENT) are they going to be thrown into a fire/chasm/that thing???They find themselves back on their feet and

Oh

It's Bism. It's beautiful. The sounds all around them get all muffled and all they can hear is their heartbeat, etc. You can faintly hear gnomes laughing as they jump in.

Suddenly, the cavern shakes and small pieces of rock fall down. Everyone feels that it is going to be only minutes until the entire Underworld comes crashing down. Scores of gnomes are jumping in at the same time now. Rilian's looking down still and the others are begging for him to go, pulling on his sleeve, the works.

Finally they go and make a very narrow escape from the Underworld.

I don't expect the Bism scene to take very long. I expect the escape from the Underworld to be very dramatic and "commercial".
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