2 – Jill Is Given a Task

Moderator: Pattertwigs Pal

2 – Jill Is Given a Task

Postby Pattertwigs Pal » May 01, 2017 2:58 am

1. When the Lion first sees Jill, he turns away “as if it knew her quite well and didn’t think much of her.” Why does the Lion seem to have a low opinion of Jill?

2. The Lion’s voice “did not make [Jill] any less frightened than she had been before, but it made her frightened in rather a different way.” What types of fear is Lewis distinguishing between?

3. Jill stares at the stream for “what seemed like hours.” Why does the Lion wait so long before speaking?

4. Why doesn't the lion promise not to eat Jill?

5. The Lion says he has “swallowed up girls and boys, women and men, kings and emperors, cities and realms.” Do you think he means this literally?

6. Lewis writes that approaching the stream to drink “was the worst thing [Jill] had ever had to do.” What was so bad about it? What does this tell us about Jill?

7. Why does the Lion want Jill to admit she was showing off?

8. Lewis writes: “It was very alarming walking back to the edge of the cliff, especially as the Lion did not walk with her but behind her—making no noise on his soft paws.” What makes this so alarming?

9. How are the first and fourth signs different than the second and third? Why do you think this is?

10. How do you think Eustace felt when he was being blown into Narnia? How would you feel if you were being blown on Aslan’s breath?

11. Jill is disappointed when she realizes that Scrubb probably had the experience of sleeping on air before she did. Why does this bother her?
Image
Silver Chair Reading Group
NW sister to Movie Aristotle & daughter of the King
User avatar
Pattertwigs Pal
Moderator
Cookie Queen of NarniaWeb
 
Posts: 4947
Joined: May 16, 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Gender: Female

Re: 2 – Jill Is Given a Task

Postby Reepicheep775 » May 02, 2017 3:01 pm

Wow. This is a difficult chapter. Most of these questions are things I would need to ponder. I'll just give a couple answers for now:

2. I think Lewis is distinguishing between the fear of physical danger, in this case a lion eating you, and between an otherwordly dread, the lion itself -
regardless of what it might do to you. It's like the fear of a ghost. Most ghosts seem to be harmless physically. I don't recall ever hearing a story of a ghost killing someone. It's the very fact that a ghost exists that is frightening.

10. I think Eustace would have felt immense relief. He probably thought he was about to plummet to his death before he was caught in Aslan's breath. After that he was probably delighted when he recognized the islands he had visited on the voyage of the Dawn Treader (if he was able to recognize them, that is) and realized that he was heading back to Narnia.

Meditate on this, I will. ;)
Image
User avatar
Reepicheep775
NarniaWeb Junkie
 
Posts: 789
Joined: Aug 20, 2007
Location: Canada
Gender: Male

Re: 2 – Jill Is Given a Task

Postby waggawerewolf27 » May 05, 2017 4:28 pm

1. When the Lion first sees Jill, he turns away “as if it knew her quite well and didn’t think much of her.” Why does the Lion seem to have a low opinion of Jill?

I expect that the Lion disapproves of people who, even unintentionally, bully other people, even if they, too, can be targeted by other bullies. Perhaps Aslan also disapproves of people who show off at other people's expense, who do not use simple common sense about safety, and who don't take sufficient responsibility for their own actions to avoid hurting others. Okay, that means a whole heap of people. ;) I don't think the Lion would approve of me, either. :(

2. The Lion’s voice “did not make [Jill] any less frightened than she had been before, but it made her frightened in rather a different way.” What types of fear is Lewis distinguishing between?

At first Jill was merely frightened because she interprets the Lion as a predatory type which will attack her to eat her. However, in the wild, a Lion won't necessarily hunt everything it sees. Only those creatures it perceives as food for itself and the rest of the pride, especially if it is still hungry enough to be mindful of that need.

The fact that the Lion could talk makes a considerable difference to her perceptions, because a talking Lion can make decisions for itself, without being driven by instinctive behaviour, that is, for example, the instinct to attack or flee.
And that opens up a whole new can of worms which gives Jill a whole range of new reasons to be frightened. I suspect it might have more to do with how she felt about the bullies at Experiment House. For instance, those bullies have got to her, possibly using threats against her, all the more effective if the teachers were on the side of the bullies.

3. Jill stares at the stream for “what seemed like hours.” Why does the Lion wait so long before speaking?

Time is relative, and Jill was increasingly thirsty. Possibly, because of the crying, she was a bit dehydrated as well. If she left off drinking for much longer, she might well have become quite ill. And, knowing nothing about the Lion, she had been hoping this terrifying Lion would just go away, something he refuses to do. Quite literally, the Lion could have waited forever if it chose to do so, but spoke before Jill would come to any physical harm from her terror of him. If she hadn't been so thirsty, and at the same time, terrified of the Lion, probably she would not have thought the time "seemed like hours".

4. Why doesn't the lion promise not to eat Jill?

I don't think it is for Jill to get the Lion to promise not to eat her, or get him to promise anything. After all, she, too, is a literary character in the same story. That is too much like a tourist in the Tower of London having the nerve to ask the Queen of England, Scotland, Ireland, Wales, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, etc etc and so forth, to lend that tourist the real Imperial State Crown for a fancy dress party dress-up. No can do. The tourist can pay to view the Crown Jewels, along with everyone else. There are plenty of postcards in the tourist shop which feature the Imperial State Crown, anyway, so a cheaply made crown with cardboard and stick on plastic jewellery is quite possible, just for a party. Even stage plays or BBC dramas have to make do with replicas.

5. The Lion says he has “swallowed up girls and boys, women and men, kings and emperors, cities and realms.” Do you think he means this literally?

In one sense, yes, the Lion, cast as a Literary character, in our story about Narnia, does mean it literally. In this role the Lion is cast in SC, he is in charge of Narnian time, and Narnian time is not in charge of him. Consider these lines from the verses in an old hymn, written by Isaac Watts, who, I think, was born in the 18th century.

Time like an ever flowing stream bears all its sons away. They fly, forgotten as a dream. Dies at the opening day.

A thousand ages in thy sight. Are like an evening gone. Short as the watch which ends the night. Before the opening dawn.
User avatar
waggawerewolf27
NarniaWeb Zealot
 
Posts: 6701
Joined: Sep 25, 2009
Location: Oz
Gender: Female

Re: 2 – Jill Is Given a Task

Postby The Rose-Tree Dryad » May 06, 2017 11:06 am

Still just a handful of answers for the time being...

1. When the Lion first sees Jill, he turns away “as if it knew her quite well and didn’t think much of her.” Why does the Lion seem to have a low opinion of Jill?

It could be that he is simply upset that she has messed up his plans after her behavior at the cliff, or it could be a kind of reverse psychology, trying to draw her nearer by seeming disinterested and unimpressed. The impression I've always gotten from that particular line, however, is that Jill at the beginning of SC is a somewhat self-absorbed and cowardly person. (Yep, that sounds harsh.)

When reading the book for the first time, I remember being surprised that the Lion seemed to have no pity for the girl who has already been crying twice in one day. But though it is true she has been having a terrible time at Experiment House, you don't get the impression that she's been standing up to anyone about animal abuse or keeping secrets under torture like undragoned Eustace, but rather has been running away and hiding whenever she can. To her credit, however, she is not one of the bullies' hangers-on or tale-bearers like Eustace once was. That said, I think there is a tendency for humans to feel that we can rest on our laurels because we are not as bad as Them when in reality there are so many more demands upon us. Or the idea that God can't possibly expect us to keep his commands in these kinds of circumstances with such personal risk at stake.

In many ways, I think of Jill's character arc as going from someone who is focused totally on self-preservation/survival to being willing to literally risk her own life to do the right thing and finally follow Aslan's signs.

5. The Lion says he has “swallowed up girls and boys, women and men, kings and emperors, cities and realms.” Do you think he means this literally?

At first I was going to say no because I can't imagine Aslanzilla having a city for breakfast and I don't really see the utility of that either, but then I thought about how in The Last Battle, Father Time takes the sun in his fist and squeezes it like an orange. In general, Narnia is a place where things that are only seen as metaphor in our world are actually true, and so I suppose I'll fall on the side of literal here. Even if it isn't literal, though, I don't think it means less, just like how God stretching out his hand to strike Egypt in Exodus doesn't mean less because Egypt isn't actually being laid to waste by a giant hand. These are hard words for the reader to swallow regardless of what Aslan means by them precisely.

6. Lewis writes that approaching the stream to drink “was the worst thing [Jill] had ever had to do.” What was so bad about it? What does this tell us about Jill?

I get the sense that it's the first time in Jill's life that she has ever gone toward apparent danger. (And considering she was a child growing up in WW2 Britain on top of going to that awful school, you can understand why running from danger may have become the modus operandi for Jill.)

8. Lewis writes: “It was very alarming walking back to the edge of the cliff, especially as the Lion did not walk with her but behind her—making no noise on his soft paws.” What makes this so alarming?

I'm not sure, but whenever I'm in a store with my mom and I'm walking in front of her and can't see her, it feels weird after following her around for so many years in childhood, so maybe it's a little similar to that. :))

10. How do you think Eustace felt when he was being blown into Narnia? How would you feel if you were being blown on Aslan’s breath?

I'm not sure how Eustace would have reacted, actually. I'm sure he would have been extremely relieved to be alive, but he still doesn't like heights. (Or so I've extrapolated... then again, he did fly when he was a dragon, but his eating habits were affected during that experience, so maybe other things were as well.) He may have tried to sleep through most of the trip. It's also interesting to think about because he didn't have the perspective of what happened that Jill did—he never saw the Lion. I'm sure he thought that Aslan had something to do with his mysterious flight, but it must have taken him a bit longer to mentally process what was happening!

As for me, I definitely wouldn't have fallen asleep like Jill did... I would have been soaking up azure and glorying in cloud-mountains and light the whole time. I'm so jealous. ;))
—The Rose-Tree Dryad, a.k.a. Rose @};-
Image
NW sister to Melian_Maia, lover of narnia, Elanor and juzuma loves lucy + NW twin to MissRosario
User avatar
The Rose-Tree Dryad
Moderator
 
Posts: 3747
Joined: Aug 21, 2010
Location: A secret garden
Gender: Female

Re: 2 – Jill Is Given a Task

Postby waggawerewolf27 » May 07, 2017 3:32 am

By the way, what does bullying mean to everyone? Does it always involve violence, or is it just as painful when the bullying is verbal, or involves social ostracism, or emotional blackmail? Would you consider practices of daring someone to do something reckless, and possibly life-threatening a form of bullying? Or calling people cowards when they refuse to undertake such activities? And is this the sort of behaviour, often called "hazing", that might be expected from Experiment House bullies?

6. Lewis writes that approaching the stream to drink “was the worst thing [Jill] had ever had to do.” What was so bad about it? What does this tell us about Jill?

Well, she doesn't trust this Lion, does she? And both Aslan and herself knows it. Furthermore, she has no reason to trust anyone, after her experiences with Experiment House. Expecting the Lion to either eat her or to attack her some other way, can't have been a very good experience at all. And it might well have been offensive to Aslan, the most trustworthy creature in that world. Remember how trusting Lucy was? Or Peter? And the sacrifice Aslan made for Edmund, to ensure he survived? Trusting someone, or being forced to do so, can sometimes be a terrible experience, if trusting anyone at all has become far too hard, as it appears to have done in Jill's case. However, she has to trust Aslan if she is to succeed in the mission he has given her and Eustace.

7. Why does the Lion want Jill to admit she was showing off?

Up to that point, Jill has been the victim in the story. But at the cliff face, she must bear some liability for her situation, and it is essential that before she can undertake the task Aslan gives her, that she is made fullly aware of how careless behaviour can cause disaster to friends, and to whatever she undertakes, rather than foes.

8. Lewis writes: “It was very alarming walking back to the edge of the cliff, especially as the Lion did not walk with her but behind her—making no noise on his soft paws.” What makes this so alarming?

Again this is an issue of trust. By this time, Jill is aware of the dangers of that cliff.

10. How do you think Eustace felt when he was being blown into Narnia? How would you feel if you were being blown on Aslan’s breath?

I don't know whether or not Eustace merely fainted with shock during his trip. Despite having a dragonish experience, he seems to have a phobia about heights. And, until we meet him again in the next chapter, he may not have been aware of where he was or that he was revisiting places he had been to.

11. Jill is disappointed when she realizes that Scrubb probably had the experience of sleeping on air before she did. Why does this bother her?

Maybe it would have been nicer if she and Eustace had gone together, so that he could have explained where they were, but such was not likely to have happened. It should have bothered her, because as delightful as it might have been to Jill, the mere idea of sleeping on air might have been a horrible nightmare to Eustace. Remember he didn't have any wings any more.
User avatar
waggawerewolf27
NarniaWeb Zealot
 
Posts: 6701
Joined: Sep 25, 2009
Location: Oz
Gender: Female

Re: 2 – Jill Is Given a Task

Postby Glumpuddle » May 08, 2017 3:18 pm

6. Lewis writes that approaching the stream to drink “was the worst thing [Jill] had ever had to do.” What was so bad about it? What does this tell us about Jill?

I think it shows what a difficult time Jill has trusting people. Even when the other option is dying of thirst. She is forced to make herself completely vulnerable to the lion.

4. Why doesn't the lion promise not to eat Jill?

From an upcoming chapter... "Aslan didn't tell Pole what would happen.
He only told her what to do." She needs to learn to trust Aslan no matter how bad things look.
Image
YouTube.com/gpuddle | Facebook.com/gpuddle | Twitter.com/glumpuddle
User avatar
Glumpuddle
NarniaWeb Fanatic
News Poster, Podcaster
 
Posts: 4883
Joined: May 14, 2004
Location: United States
Gender: Male

Re: 2 – Jill Is Given a Task

Postby waggawerewolf27 » May 08, 2017 6:59 pm

Having re-read some responses, to these questions, Glumpuddle's answers above made me realise something else about Jill, and her talk with Aslan. How does Question 3, quoted below, compare with similar conversations in other books, which I have also quoted from other books in the series (in spoilers)?

3. Jill stares at the stream for “what seemed like hours.” Why does the Lion wait so long before speaking?

SHOW SPOILER Quote 1
The horse and his boy wrote:"One who has waited long for you to speak", said the Thing.


SHOW SPOILER Quote 2
Magician's Nephew wrote:"Wouldn't he know without being asked?" said Polly. "I've no doubt he would", said the Horse...."But I have a sort of idea he likes to be asked".


It occurs to me that Jill rather made it worse for herself, the longer she remained silent, gazing at that most tempting stream of water.

Rose-Tree Dryad wrote:But though it is true she has been having a terrible time at Experiment House, you don't get the impression that she's been standing up to anyone about animal abuse or keeping secrets under torture like undragoned Eustace, but rather has been running away and hiding whenever she can. To her credit, however, she is not one of the bullies' hangers-on or tale-bearers like Eustace once was. That said, I think there is a tendency for humans to feel that we can rest on our laurels because we are not as bad as Them when in reality there are so many more demands upon us. Or the idea that God can't possibly expect us to keep his commands in these kinds of circumstances with such personal risk at stake.


I wouldn't say she hasn't been attempting to stand up for herself, let alone stepping in on someone else's behalf. As you say, she hasn't been one of the hangers on or a tale-bearer. It doesn't mean she, or for that matter, Eustace, haven't been overall affected by the culture of that school up to the end of the last term. Eustace was lucky enough to have been in the same boat as a whole bunch of people who grew to like him, and he has learned different, less competitive, values to Experiment House bullies.

The problem with bullies is that they tend to play on people's perceived weaknesses within the group, using things like ostracism or name-calling to isolate their victims from others. One tactic is to invite confidences, only to use that information to disparage the person doing the confiding. Another tactic, often involving bullies, include initiation ceremonies, such as daring someone to do something illegal or dangerous, such as going too close to the edge of the train platform or to the edges of cliffs - why such accidents are so closely investigated by insurance companies, as well as the police.

Jill still doesn't know much about Eustace, except that in the past school holidays he changed his behaviour quite considerably, nor is she able to trust people in general, let alone Aslan. But she does know quite a bit about Experiment House rules of behaviour according to the bullies. Would that explain to some extent why she might need to show off? As well as explaining why Eustace's confiding in Jill was such a huge risk?

9. How are the first and fourth signs different than the second and third? Why do you think this is?

The first and fourth sign is to do with people, that is to say, Eustace has to identify an old friend. Whilst the target of their search will be identified by swearing by Aslan, the Lion commissioning the search. And there is a relationship between a very old friend and the Missing Prince.

The two middle signs are directional. First find the place then follow the directions from that point.
User avatar
waggawerewolf27
NarniaWeb Zealot
 
Posts: 6701
Joined: Sep 25, 2009
Location: Oz
Gender: Female

Re: 2 – Jill Is Given a Task

Postby Reepicheep775 » May 18, 2017 8:49 am

The Rose-Tree Dryad wrote:In many ways, I think of Jill's character arc as going from someone who is focused totally on self-preservation/survival to being willing to literally risk her own life to do the right thing and finally follow Aslan's signs.

I think that's a good way of describing Jill's arc. I think I normally mostly feel sympathy for Jill, especially at the beginning of the book, but she does have a lot of moral growth to do. You can give her a little leeway for ending up the way she did given the environment she's grown up in... but only so much.

I also think Aslan's sternness towards Jill stems from him thinking that Jill doesn't need sympathy so much as a wake up call. The book opens with Jill crying and, while I don't want to sound like I'm disparaging tears as a sometimes necessary purge of negative emotions, Jill's crying at the beginning of SC is an act of self-pity and despair, and therefore something that has to eventually be moved past. As Lewis said in LWW:
C. S. Lewis wrote:Crying is all right in its way while it lasts. But you have to stop sooner or later, and then you still have to decide what to do.

Self-pity can be a trap that is difficult to climb out of and it is time for Jill to do just that.
Image
User avatar
Reepicheep775
NarniaWeb Junkie
 
Posts: 789
Joined: Aug 20, 2007
Location: Canada
Gender: Male

Re: 2 – Jill Is Given a Task

Postby Anhun » May 29, 2017 8:24 am

The Rose-Tree Dryad wrote:In many ways, I think of Jill's character arc as going from someone who is focused totally on self-preservation/survival to being willing to literally risk her own life to do the right thing and finally follow Aslan's signs.


I think Rose-Tree Dryad has hit the nail on the head. Jill's journey is an education in courage and selflessness. The first chapter establishes her cowardice relative to the bullies. The second chapter shows her self-centeredness in the way that she shows off to the point of putting Eustace in danger, and has no sympathy for his failings even though she has failings of her own. Her selfishness is a function of cowardice and despair. She has so little to be proud of that she takes advantage of her few opportunities to put other people down. She doesn't look after other people because it's all she can do to look after herself.

This is why Johnstons comments about "finding out who you are" have me concerned.
Jill doesn't discover abilities that she had all along, she grows morally and emotionally, developing new abilities along the way. This is in direct contrast to most characters I've seen who "are true to themselves" in modern fiction. Those statements usually amount to a refusal to grow and adapt. If anything the idea of self-discover is the opposite of the themes of SC.


Glumpuddle wrote:I think it shows what a difficult time Jill has trusting people. Even when the other option is dying of thirst. She is forced to make herself completely vulnerable to the lion.


I disagree. Try putting on some genre-blinders and imagine that SC was part of a biography of a real person. In chapter 1, she is hesitant to believe a classmate, that she's never been particularly close to, when he tells her something wildly fantastical. In chapter 2, she is hesitant to go near an untamed lion. In both of these cases her response reflects normal cautiousness, rather than fundamental difficulties with trust.

It helps to contrast her situation with that of the Pevensies, who spent a considerable amount of time with the Beavers, being primed to think of Aslan as someone good and trustworthy; someone who will save the day. Jill had no such indoctrination. As far as she knows, her dilemma at the the stream is a choice between dying of thirst and dying in the jaws of a lion.
User avatar
Anhun
NarniaWeb Nut
 
Posts: 480
Joined: Dec 29, 2010
Location: P3R-233

Re: 2 – Jill Is Given a Task

Postby Hwinning » May 30, 2017 2:52 pm

1. When the Lion first sees Jill, he turns away “as if it knew her quite well and didn’t think much of her.” Why does the Lion seem to have a low opinion of Jill?

Aslan doesn't really have a low opinion of Jill. Jill has a low opinion of Jill (whether she admits it or not) and she molds her perception of Aslan and his intentions to fit that mold.

8. Lewis writes: “It was very alarming walking back to the edge of the cliff, especially as the Lion did not walk with her but behind her—making no noise on his soft paws.” What makes this so alarming?

She's in Eustace's shoes now. Jill probably thinks that he's going to push her off the cliff as she did Eustace but, this time it won't be an accident. The fact that Aslan's footsteps are silent only makes it scarier, because she won't know when the push is going to come.
User avatar
Hwinning
NarniaWeb Regular
 
Posts: 18
Joined: May 30, 2017

Re: 2 – Jill Is Given a Task

Postby waggawerewolf27 » May 30, 2017 10:29 pm

Hello, and welcome Hwinning. :)

Hwinning wrote:Aslan doesn't really have a low opinion of Jill. Jill has a low opinion of Jill (whether she admits it or not) and she molds her perception of Aslan and his intentions to fit that mold.


You could be right. For one thing, Jill's encounter with the Experiment House bullies has left her demoralised. Her behaviour at the cliff face, and the consequences to Eustace, the one person who showed her any friendliness at all, have demoralised her even further.

Anhun wrote:...Try putting on some genre-blinders and imagine that SC was part of a biography of a real person. In chapter 1, she is hesitant to believe a classmate, that she's never been particularly close to, when he tells her something wildly fantastical. In chapter 2, she is hesitant to go near an untamed lion. In both of these cases her response reflects normal cautiousness, rather than fundamental difficulties with trust.


Yes, you are right also. In chapters 1 and 2, natural caution is understandable in both cases. However, why didn't natural caution also prevail when Eustace and Jill approached the cliff face? I can understand Jill being wary of Eustace, and also wary of a definitely wild lion blocking her way. But that same wariness is also normal when approaching cliff faces. It isn't a sign of cowardliness, either, to fear going too close to a cliff, whatever the bullies might say to their victims about courage and fear. Had she behaved normally then, the whole incident might not have happened at all. So, why didn't Jill simply step back from the cliff as Eustace asked her to do?

The trouble is, that bullies enjoy power over others by humiliating them over their fears and weak spots and revel in other people's discomfort. That is why some bullies bully. They equate fear with cowardice. Yet fear is something most people have at one time or another. Real courage is facing down one's own fears to do what is necessary, when it is necessary. Neither the bullies nor Jill, herself, might know this.

So far in the story we have learned that Jill hasn't so far been intimidated into becoming a tale-bearer or one of the bullies' hangers-on. But Jill caught crying behind the gym, has allowed the bullies to learn they do have the power to make her life miserable. She might have been able to impress them sufficiently to leave her alone for now, by not showing fear in a dangerous situation at a cliff face, unlike Eustace. But all the bullies will do is find some other way to get to her. In the first chapter we've also learned that Eustace, having been a talebearer and hanger-on, has, himself, gone out on a limb to stand up to these bullies, which certainly was brave of him. Jill understands his fear when she mentions the bullies plan to do him over next. But she doesn't understand yet that Eustace's fear of falling over a cliff is a quite normal reaction from most people, including the bravest heroes anyone has ever met.

Anhun wrote:The first chapter establishes her cowardice relative to the bullies. The second chapter shows her self-centeredness in the way that she shows off to the point of putting Eustace in danger, and has no sympathy for his failings even though she has failings of her own.


No, I don't think the first chapter has established Jill's cowardice relative to the bullies at all. But Jill in Chapter 2 does show she has to unlearn the same erroneous values as the bullies hold. That is, she has been affected by the bullies to think of showing fear and obedience as weaknesses, and to think that not being afraid of a situation means that she is showing courage. That is why "she shows off to the point of putting Eustace's life in danger". Yes, she is self-centred in Chapter 2, but no more so than the bullies who likewise cannot put themselves into their victims' shoes, or appreciate that there is nothing brave about boosting themselves at other people's expense.

And that is also why Aslan was so stern with Jill at first.
User avatar
waggawerewolf27
NarniaWeb Zealot
 
Posts: 6701
Joined: Sep 25, 2009
Location: Oz
Gender: Female

Re: 2 – Jill Is Given a Task

Postby TheLukeskywalker2 » Jun 05, 2017 4:43 pm

1. When the Lion first sees Jill, he turns away “as if it knew her quite well and didn’t think much of her.” Why does the Lion seem to have a low opinion of Jill?

Aslan either knows that Jill hasn't accepted the responsibility for what had just happened, or he knew children well enough to hypothesize that this was going on.

2. The Lion’s voice “did not make [Jill] any less frightened than she had been before, but it made her frightened in rather a different way.” What types of fear is Lewis distinguishing between?

I think he is differentiating between the fear of being near a lion to fear of what this lion actually knows about her.

3. Jill stares at the stream for “what seemed like hours.” Why does the Lion wait so long before speaking?

Time is relative and seems to drag on when someone is waiting.

4. Why doesn't the lion promise not to eat Jill?

Jill needs to trust Aslan and his signs otherwise the mission would likely go uncompleted.

5. The Lion says he has “swallowed up girls and boys, women and men, kings and emperors, cities and realms.” Do you think he means this literally?

Depends on how
the disappearing pools in the Magician's Nephew were destroyed.
That's one scenario where I think Aslan could have literally done what he said.

6. Lewis writes that approaching the stream to drink “was the worst thing [Jill] had ever had to do.” What was so bad about it? What does this tell us about Jill?

It tells us that that Jill is easily scared.

7. Why does the Lion want Jill to admit she was showing off?

Because foolishness would get them killed later on in the mission. If they want the mission to be a success, the need to think before they act and be aware of their surroundings.

8. Lewis writes: “It was very alarming walking back to the edge of the cliff, especially as the Lion did not walk with her but behind her—making no noise on his soft paws.” What makes this so alarming?

Because she knew that he was there, but she could not hear him.

9. How are the first and fourth signs different than the second and third? Why do you think this is?

The first and the fourth seem more time bound. The second and third do not have a time limit on them, as long as they are able to find the signs and do what they imply. The first and the fourth are different, as they seem to imply that there is a certain time frame that you can act before you miss out on completing the sign properly.

10. How do you think Eustace felt when he was being blown into Narnia? How would you feel if you were being blown on Aslan’s breath?

It sounds absolutely amazing. I'd be wondering what happened at the beginning since I would not have seen Aslan. Then I would probably take a nap since there isn't much you can do while you're riding on air.

11. Jill is disappointed when she realizes that Scrubb probably had the experience of sleeping on air before she did. Why does this bother her?

She wanted to be the first to do something. This seems to go along with my idea of Jill wanted to get noticed by others. Being the first to ride on breath would get her noticed.

Anyway, these are my answers. I'll take on the next two tomorrow.
TheLukeskywalker2
NarniaWeb Newbie
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Jun 05, 2017
Gender: Male

Re: 2 – Jill Is Given a Task

Postby Ryadian » Jun 14, 2017 11:38 am

This was such a hard one! This is such an intense chapter and there's so much going on. All I can do is give my best guesses....

1. When the Lion first sees Jill, he turns away “as if it knew her quite well and didn’t think much of her.” Why does the Lion seem to have a low opinion of Jill?Perhaps it has to do with the fact that she did, after all, nearly kill Eustace just a little while ago. Also, given how he softens later, after Jill has admitted to her showing off being the reason that Eustace fell, he softens considerably - perhaps this was part of his larger method to coax this realization/admission out of her. Finally, perhaps it's because she still has quite a bit of growing to do. You also have to wonder whether or not Jill is reading at all into his behavior, given her own guilt.

2. The Lion’s voice “did not make [Jill] any less frightened than she had been before, but it made her frightened in rather a different way.” What types of fear is Lewis distinguishing between?
Jill is probably no longer afraid of being eaten by a vicious, wild animal. However, now that she knows that the Lion can talk, she has no way of knowing what it actually wants - or what it'll do to her. It's also possible that the deep voice is, in and of itself, frightening.

3. Jill stares at the stream for “what seemed like hours.” Why does the Lion wait so long before speaking?
To be fair, we don't actually know how long it had been - in Jill's scenario, I could easily believe it was only a few minutes, but between her intense thirst and fear, I can see her perception of time getting very skewed. Regardless, I think the reason he does not speak immediately is perhaps to give Jill a chance to brave it without any prompting from him. It also gives her time to really consider just how thirsty she is - and if she's thirsty enough to risk coming near him to drink.

Having read the other responses in this thread:


waggawerewolf27 wrote:
SHOW SPOILER Quote 1
The horse and his boy wrote:"One who has waited long for you to speak", said the Thing.


...Wow. That parallel is just... wow.

4. Why doesn't the lion promise not to eat Jill?
We know from later in this chapter that the Lion has called Jill and Eustace into Narnia for a task. I get a sense that the Lion is testing Jill's courage and resolve with a lot of his choices not to lay things out in front of her and make it "easy". In a strange way, this might also be about building trust. The lion has no reason not to eat Jill, and she has no choice but to put her life in his paws by drawing near to him to drink - and she comes out of it safely. If nothing else, once she's had her drink, she knows that he has no intent of harming her, at least not for the time being.

TheLukeskywalker2 wrote:5. The Lion says he has “swallowed up girls and boys, women and men, kings and emperors, cities and realms.” Do you think he means this literally?

Depends on how
the disappearing pools in the Magician's Nephew were destroyed.
That's one scenario where I think Aslan could have literally done what he said.


I've always wondered about this myself. ;)) I'm inclined to agree with Rosie that "swallowing them up" might be metaphorical, but that makes it no less likely that he may have literally destroyed those kinds of things.

7. Why does the Lion want Jill to admit she was showing off?
If he accuses her of having been showing off, she might either get defensive. I doubt she would have denied it to his face, but if she's forced to admit it herself, it's much harder to hide behind silent excuses.

8. Lewis writes: “It was very alarming walking back to the edge of the cliff, especially as the Lion did not walk with her but behind her—making no noise on his soft paws.” What makes this so alarming?
She's already thoroughly terrified of him, and probably not looking forward to going back to the place where Eustace fell, and now she doesn't even really know where he is.

9. How are the first and fourth signs different than the second and third? Why do you think this is?
The second and third signs are both things that Jill herself can look for and find - for the others, she's dependent on other people. For the first sign, she's depending on Eustace to recognize his old and dear friend. For the fourth, she is dependent on the lost prince asking her to do something in Aslan's name.

10. How do you think Eustace felt when he was being blown into Narnia? How would you feel if you were being blown on Aslan’s breath?
Plenty of shock, I would imagine, but probably relief that he's no longer falling to his certain death. I wonder if he ever really realized what was happening to him, given that he didn't get an explanation from Aslan as Jill did.
SHOW SPOILER "Later in the book"
I have a sneaking suspicion he also had plenty of time to think about how angry he was with Jill, given that a) we find out she was blown faster to catch up, and b) he is very cold to her once she arrives.


11. Jill is disappointed when she realizes that Scrubb probably had the experience of sleeping on air before she did. Why does this bother her?
I think she's kind of jealous that the first really special thing to happen for her since getting to this country that Eustace was talking about... has happened for someone else first. (I strongly suspect she wouldn't have felt that way if they had experienced it for the first time together.)

waggawerewolf27 wrote:By the way, what does bullying mean to everyone? Does it always involve violence, or is it just as painful when the bullying is verbal, or involves social ostracism, or emotional blackmail? Would you consider practices of daring someone to do something reckless, and possibly life-threatening a form of bullying? Or calling people cowards when they refuse to undertake such activities? And is this the sort of behaviour, often called "hazing", that might be expected from Experiment House bullies?

As far as I'm concerned - almost all of the above. To me, bullying is any means of exerting undue control of others through fear, with an upper limit of when it comes to actual crimes (e.g., extortion). Daring someone to do something reckless is a bit more of a gray area, largely dependent on how much pressure is put on the person who's dared.
Image
N-Web sis of stardf, _Rillian_, & jerenda
Proud to be Sirya the Madcap Siren
User avatar
Ryadian
Moderator
 
Posts: 11423
Joined: Jun 10, 2004
Location: Minnesota, US
Gender: Female

Re: 2 – Jill Is Given a Task

Postby Glumpuddle » Jun 15, 2017 1:39 pm

5. The Lion says he has “swallowed up girls and boys, women and men, kings and emperors, cities and realms.” Do you think he means this literally?

I take it literally simply because I can't think of a great reason not to. The question was "do you eat girls?" If Aslan replied "I have destroyed people and places in some sense," that would not be answering Jill's question.

Each Narnia book reveals something surprising and new about Aslan. There is always more to him than we thought. And we know he is not a tame lion. As absurd as literally swallowing an entire realm sounds, I would tend to discount any interpretation that begins with "But Aslan couldn't do that." If there is one thing we know about Aslan for certain, it's that we know very very little about him.
Image
YouTube.com/gpuddle | Facebook.com/gpuddle | Twitter.com/glumpuddle
User avatar
Glumpuddle
NarniaWeb Fanatic
News Poster, Podcaster
 
Posts: 4883
Joined: May 14, 2004
Location: United States
Gender: Male

Re: 2 – Jill Is Given a Task

Postby waggawerewolf27 » Jun 15, 2017 4:59 pm

Glumpuddle wrote:I take it literally simply because I can't think of a great reason not to. The question was "do you eat girls?" If Aslan replied "I have destroyed people and places in some sense," that would not be answering Jill's question.


No it wouldn't make sense for Aslan to answer Jill the way you say. :-\ And I wouldn't want that sort of answer to Jill's question in the film either. For the purposes of the book Silver Chair and the forthcoming film, that particular part of Jill's conversation should be left untouched. It is up to the audience, or the reader to work out why they could take Aslan's comment literally, within the context of the story, when he says he has “swallowed up girls and boys, women and men, kings and emperors, cities and realms.” This is the answer to Jill's question, "Do you eat girls?"

But my answer to Pattertwig's question, which was: [b]Do you think he means this literally?[/b] is my interpretation of why and how Aslan could mean it literally within the context of this story. We know he literally killed Jadis the White Witch, but it isn't Aslan, himself, who killed Rilian's mother, for example. Or Miraz, or Octesian and Restimar in VDT, let alone the vast array of other Narnian characters that we have seen so far in previous book discussions.

And now, Glumpuddle, I agree that you are right. There is indeed a great deal more to Aslan than meets the eye. :p Likewise, Aslan won't promise not to eat Jill, because there is no guarantee that she won't get herself eaten by someone else in the mission he's given, if she forgets those signs. As we now note in a different thread in this reading discussion. :D

And in this chapter, Aslan also saves Eustace's life when he fell over the cliff, something not to be expected from a would-be swallower of cities and realms, so why doesn't he do that sort of thing in other places in SC? Or does he?
User avatar
waggawerewolf27
NarniaWeb Zealot
 
Posts: 6701
Joined: Sep 25, 2009
Location: Oz
Gender: Female

Re: 2 – Jill Is Given a Task

Postby Movie Aristotle » Aug 06, 2017 1:40 pm

4. Why doesn't the lion promise not to eat Jill?

I think he's teaching her to trust. Or maybe he's testing her.

5. The Lion says he has “swallowed up girls and boys, women and men, kings and emperors, cities and realms.” Do you think he means this literally?

Well, I think he ate Jadis, didn't he? It's possible he meant some items on the list literally, and others in a figurative sense, as in he put an end to that realm. Who knows?
SHOW SPOILER "The Magician's Nephew"
Perhaps that's what happened to the pool of Charn. Maybe Aslan got thirsty.

6. Lewis writes that approaching the stream to drink “was the worst thing [Jill] had ever had to do.” What was so bad about it? What does this tell us about Jill?

I would think it very scary to have to drink with a lion behind you. Especially one that says it eats people and who refuses to promise not to eat you.

7. Why does the Lion want Jill to admit she was showing off?

I think if Jill hadn't come to the realization that she was to blame for Eustace falling off the cliff, it would have lead to some untimely squabbles in Narnia. Aslan dealt with the issue, made sure Jill learned from it, and then moved on to the real task at hand.

8. Lewis writes: “It was very alarming walking back to the edge of the cliff, especially as the Lion did not walk with her but behind her—making no noise on his soft paws.” What makes this so alarming?

Again, Jill is completely out of control in this situation, and is forced to trust a strange lion whom she fears.

10. How do you think Eustace felt when he was being blown into Narnia? How would you feel if you were being blown on Aslan’s breath?

Confused at first, but I think he's a smart chap. He'd figure out it was magic soon enough. I expect his experience was in many ways like Jill's.

11. Jill is disappointed when she realizes that Scrubb probably had the experience of sleeping on air before she did. Why does this bother her?

I think she was excited at the thought that she might be the first to have ever done something, and then was disappointed when she realized that Eustace was undoubtedly the first -which I suppose she's now kicking herself for, since she was the reason Eustace fell and had to be blown to safety in the first place.
Image
User avatar
Movie Aristotle
NarniaWeb Junkie
 
Posts: 801
Joined: Jan 11, 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Gender: Male

Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest