3 – The Sailing of the King

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3 – The Sailing of the King

Postby Pattertwigs Pal » May 08, 2017 2:45 am

1. What do you think of Glimfeather?

2. How do you feel about Glimfeather often ending sentences with “ooo”? Funny? Cheesy?

3. What do you think of Trumpkin? Has he changed from Prince Caspian?

4. Why doesn’t Glimfeather introduce himself to the children?

5. Jill’s Narnian clothes “were the kind that not only felt nice, but looked nice and smelled nice and made nice sounds when you moved as well.” Can you relate to how awesome that is?

6. Scrubb says finding Caspian in his eighties is “worse than coming back and finding him dead.” Do you think this is how you would feel?

7. Why does it never occur to Jill to simply write down the signs?

8. Why does Lewis bother to describe the story Jill and Scrubb hear over dinner? Is it anything more than a fun tease for The Horse and His Boy?
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Re: 3 – The Sailing of the King

Postby The Rose-Tree Dryad » May 10, 2017 4:46 pm

2. How do you feel about Glimfeather often ending sentences with “ooo”? Funny? Cheesy?

I think it's fun and clever, but it also makes me glad that he is not a main character... it would get really old after a while. ;))

3. What do you think of Trumpkin? Has he changed from Prince Caspian?

Love this scene with Trumpkin! So funny. :)) In a way, though, they almost feel like two different characters to me. For one, I imagine Archimedes's voice from Disney's The Sword in the Stone for Trumpkin's lines here, and I never imagine that in PC. (Of course, voices do change with age, but still.) While I feel like they are still in the some sense the same person, the character we meet here is the product of many years of acting as regent and living comfortably in Cair Paravel's wonderfully hospitable court, and that's a far cry from the dwarf we meet in PC who is in the midst of a war.

I wonder how the Pevensies would have felt meeting Trumpkin again, compared to Eustace's reaction to old King Caspian? I feel sure it would have been a merrier reunion, but I think it would still have been something of a shock to them.

5. Jill’s Narnian clothes “were the kind that not only felt nice, but looked nice and smelled nice and made nice sounds when you moved as well.” Can you relate to how awesome that is?

I've never worn Narnian clothes—I really ought to scoot over to the Costuming forum and see about remedying that ;))—but clothes that feel good and look good are lovely!

6. Scrubb says finding Caspian in his eighties is “worse than coming back and finding him dead.” Do you think this is how you would feel?

I can sympathize with him. It's that idea of wanting to remember people as they were, back during happier times. Only a short time ago Eustace had seen Caspian in his prime, and to see him again so near the end of his life after suffering many years of terrible grief... it must have been an awful shock. I would have felt sick as well. I wouldn't have wished that they had already been dead instead—I would have wanted to speak with them—but for that reason I can understand why Eustace might feel the way he did, considering that Caspian has already set sail before he even had the chance to recognize him. It seems he has no chance to speak with Caspian now and is left with only a deeply unpleasant image of his advanced age and health that he would rather forget. From his perspective, there was little good in seeing him alive again when he seems so near the door of death and he could not even say goodbye or make his presence known at all; it was only a disturbing picture of grief and mortality and not even an opportunity to speak with an old friend.

(Now I want to go pick up PC and refresh my memory on the Pevensies' reactions to finding out they've been gone for hundreds of years and all their old friends are long gone...)

7. Why does it never occur to Jill to simply write down the signs?

At the moment, she seems too dazzled by all of the colors and comforts and creatures of Cair Paravel to think of anything practical like that. Going forward, she doesn't really have a chance to do that once they leave Puddleglum's wigwam, unless someone happened to have a pen and paper on them. Still, I probably would've tried to write the bullet points on my arm with mud or something. ;))

8. Why does Lewis bother to describe the story Jill and Scrubb hear over dinner? Is it anything more than a fun tease for The Horse and His Boy?

It does make me wonder if Lewis was sure that he was going to write HHB at this point! Occasionally Lewis will make little asides like this, hinting at some untold story, but I imagine that he was rather far along in the development of Shasta and Aravis's tale by this point. (Can you imagine if he hadn't written HHB, though, and that mention was all we ever got? The curiosity would have killed me. ;)))
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Re: 3 – The Sailing of the King

Postby waggawerewolf27 » May 10, 2017 7:59 pm

2. How do you feel about Glimfeather often ending sentences with “ooo”? Funny? Cheesy?

It could become cheesy, but how well does anyone expect an animal or a bird to speak? In accents more suitable for Hollywood or BBC commentary? I know parrots and cockatoos mimic humans quite well. Especially swear words. =)) Lyre birds and mockingbirds do a fantastic mimicry job of a range of sounds, but lyre birds, at any rate, are wild creatures in what is left of the Bush. But Brownies and guides aside, owls toowit towhoo, and that is their means of communication. And if it is tooowhooo much, then that is what owls doooo. Poor Trumpkin. :ymdevil:

3. What do you think of Trumpkin? Has he changed from Prince Caspian?

Yes, Trumpkin really has changed from PC. In that book, he was quite the athletic young dwarf, not easily taken in by "old wives' tales", but as true as steel once he committed himself. He had none of the cantankerousness of Nikabrik, and he has been for many years Caspian's right-hand man (oops, dwarf). Trumpkin was a generous character, taking on the mission of going to Cair Paravel, where he met the Pevensies, knowing when to take orders and doing his best to be useful.

Rose-tree Dryad wrote:I wonder how the Pevensies would have felt meeting Trumpkin again, compared to Eustace's reaction to old King Caspian? I feel sure it would have been a merrier reunion, but I think it would still have been something of a shock to them.


It must have been quite a shock to the Pevensies to have found their old friends had long gone, that centuries had passed and that they were, themselves, ancient history in PC. Somehow I think that they would be more prepared to accept that Trumpkin would not get any younger if they got to meet him again. Because time only goes forward. But the deafness might spoil the occasion somewhat, especially if his memory was going as well.

For here, in this chapter, Trumpkin has indeed become old, deaf and crotchety. The trouble is with losing one's hearing, that those who do, often don't have any insight into their condition, and blame everyone else's mumbling for what is a failure of their own body. Get their hearing tested and hearing aids installed? Forget it. They are having too much fun not hearing. Of course if anyone yells at them, they immediately tell those who do, not to yell. 8-| All this becomes rather tiresome after a while. Especially for those of the Narnians who can hear quite well, but have their own peculiarities of speaking to overcome when communicating. Even humans have problems with talking, such as with stuttering, lisping etc, even when they have breath enough to talk at all. :(

Yes, meeting Trumpkin again - or for the first time in Jill and Eustace's case - is a bit of fun, but underneath the fun, there is at least one serious issue involved in his being deaf. It slows down communication whilst information is repeated ad nauseam. Although Trumpkin may still be 100% reliable, he might not really be the best person to run Narnia, whilst Caspian has sailed off to the Lone Islands. It also seems that Trumpkin has become somewhat immobile. The donkey cart is a good idea for him, but there is a Lewis story lurking about a donkey in another Narnia book or two. :-s

It really looks like at this stage, that both Jill and Eustace have missed the boat in more than one sense. And that their mission might be more urgent than appears at first.

4. Why doesn’t Glimfeather introduce himself to the children?

Maybe Glimfeather might not see the need to introduce himself. He seems the sort of outgoing owl who knows everyone, who is known to everyone, and he also seems to be a bit of a leader, the sort who is more like to openly challenge strangers than to wait until they challenge him. Being an owl, he doesn't draw attention to himself, and knows the benefit of concealment and not being too open about who he is. Perhaps he is the animal version of a private eye. ;) He probably noticed (and heard) the children long before they landed, and was clearly listening into their conversation. Did I mention that owls have such good hearing that they can hear a mouse's heartbeat from a distance?

5. Jill’s Narnian clothes “were the kind that not only felt nice, but looked nice and smelled nice and made nice sounds when you moved as well.” Can you relate to how awesome that is?

Wouldn't that be nice? I expect they are also the sort of comfortable clothes that don't trip one up, which have pockets to keep things in (eg keys, torch etc), and include shoes that it is possible to work and walk long distances in comfortably without breaking one's ankles, and still look absolutely gorgeous to wear. \:D/

6. Scrubb says finding Caspian in his eighties is “worse than coming back and finding him dead.” Do you think this is how you would feel?

Not really how I'd feel, since I'm a decade closer to my eighties, myself, and I am quite used to "old" friends, being, well, old. But time can be relative, even in one's senior years. What is shocking for Eustace is that he hasn't aged himself at anything like the same rate, nor is he in a good position yet to understand that it is more than time, itself, that has caused Caspian to look so old and frail. I expect when I meet someone I've known that they will merely look their age, or younger. But sometimes people I've known, if affected by tragedy, illness or sadness could look far worse than is indicated by the mere number of years they have been alive, even if they are actually younger than myself.

Poor Scrubb thinks he has lost the valued friend he used to know, and we have to wait yet to find out the truth of the matter. Yes, Scrubb was to greet an old friend but he wasn't expecting that the friend would be so elderly. And now he has also lost the only chance he will have to talk to Caspian the Seafarer about their adventures aboard the Dawn Treader. For Scrubb, it is like getting something back he treasured that is now broken.

A question: Is Caspian really in his eighties? Or does he just look like it? For example, in PC, wasn't Trumpkin an adult whilst Prince Caspian was the same age as Peter Pevensie? And yet here in this chapter, when I reread the book, Trumpkin was supposed to be the same age as Prince Caspian, but looks more hale and hearty.

7. Why does it never occur to Jill to simply write down the signs?

Mostly because she doesn't carry paper and pen around which might have helped. She tries to memorize the signs, but keeps forgetting them, and I wonder why. It seems every time Eustace asks her what they are, she gets a mental block. Or is that just his impatience with her? But why not Eustace writing them down, himself? What happened to Eustace's journal that he used to keep on board the Dawn Treader?

8. Why does Lewis bother to describe the story Jill and Scrubb hear over dinner? Is it anything more than a fun tease for The Horse and His Boy?

Yes it could be a "fun tease for the Horse and his Boy", but it might be a bit more. For one thing, the story harks back to a time when the Pevensies were there in Narnia, and it might be nice for Jill and Eustace to know about that particular adventure, especially if they ever get to meet these Pevensies. They might like to know that they weren't the only ones in Narnia to have travelled long distances on a quest to save the day.
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Re: 3 – The Sailing of the King

Postby The Rose-Tree Dryad » May 11, 2017 2:55 pm

waggawerewolf27 wrote:But why not Eustace writing them down, himself? What happened to Eustace's journal that he used to keep on board the Dawn Treader?


Ooh, that's a good thought. I wonder if Eustace wasn't put-off the idea of journaling, though, after his undragoning... it brought back too many unpleasant memories of his unpleasant former self! ;))

One other thought that occurred to me as to why they never wrote down the signs, which I will put in spoiler tags as it references some information yet to be revealed... if that paper had been lost (which could easily happen traveling through rough country with unforeseen dangers), then it might potentially be found by a well-meaning Narnian search party, meant to rescue the questers and bring them back to Narnia per Trumpkin's orders. It's like a map telling them where to go look for them! Or imagine that they had been captured by some enemy during their journey north... you wouldn't want them finding a paper with Aslan's signs on it. After leaving Cair Paravel under the cover of night, Eustace and Jill are in effect on a secret mission, and the secret is safer if they carry it only in their heads.
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Re: 3 – The Sailing of the King

Postby waggawerewolf27 » May 14, 2017 5:38 pm

Those were good thoughts about Eustace, Rose, and his seemingly discontinued VDT habit of keeping a journal. It seems that now Eustace has changed his VDT tune somewhat, he might find it risky to carry around diaries, journals etc in the playground at Experiment House. The bullies might very well latch onto such a possibly incriminating document to get Eustace, himself, in heaps of trouble. On the occasion where he met Jill his schoolbooks would have been firmly kept in the classroom, perhaps, or in a locker, somewhere.

When Jill landed and caught up with Eustace, she was still a fair distance from the wharf where the ship Caspian sailed on was moored. Would there really have been any hope of either Eustace or Jill getting to Caspian in time to prevent his sailing, especially as the book says Jill forgot Aslan and the signs for about half an hour whilst looking around?
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Re: 3 – The Sailing of the King

Postby Reepicheep775 » May 18, 2017 9:04 am

1. What do you think of Glimfeather?
I actually think Glimfeather is one of the more forgettable characters in Narnia. Owls are my favourite type of animals, so I'm a little biased in his favour, but apart from his wonderful dialogue with Trumpkin, there isn't much about him that sticks out.

2. How do you feel about Glimfeather often ending sentences with “ooo”? Funny? Cheesy?
I don't mind Glimfeather's way of talking. I'm not crazy about it, but I wouldn't call it cheesy either. It's... pleasant, I guess? :p

One thing though... I'm normally good at separating the voices of movie characters from the voices of book characters that I have in my head, but in the case of Glimfeather, I hear Warwick Davis every time.

3. What do you think of Trumpkin? Has he changed from Prince Caspian?
I noticed that Trumpkin has no difficulty believing in the Other Place where the children come from. After all he'd seen during the events of PC, it wouldn't make any sense for him to not believe in other worlds, but it's the sort of idea that I think PC Trumpkin would have scoffed at.
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