Chapter 3 – The Lone Islands

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Chapter 3 – The Lone Islands

Postby Pattertwigs Pal » Jul 15, 2015 4:07 am

1. What does Lucy's comment about remembering the islands suggest about their years as Kings and Queens?

2. How do you think the Lone Islands became part of Narnia?

3. Lewis mentions that Caspian would not have suggested walking across Felimath if he had been more experienced. Why do you think he does this? Why did Edmund and Lucy, who arguably have more experience than Caspian, agree with his plan?

4. Eustace doesn't like the small ship, but do you think he has been on large ones himself?

5. Pug was on the Lone Islands when he kidnapped Caspian and co. Why do you think he chose to do this? Was it his practice to kidnap people from the Lone Islands?

6. What are some things that you think Reepicheep said to the slavers?

7. Why did the Lone Islands use Calormene money?

8. Bern says he will treat Caspian well (before he knew it was Caspian). What do you think he meant by this?

9. Bern's relationship with Caspian's father allows him to recognize Caspian for who he really is. How else does that connection show itself in this chapter and affect Bern's relationship with the current Caspian?

10. What do you like most about the description of Lord Berne and his home?

11. Why do you think both Drinian and Caspian wanted to start by freeing their friends by force? If Edmund had either been left on the boat or bought would that have been his idea too or do you think he would have considered other options at once?

12. Do you think Bern's experience makes up for Caspian's inexperience?

13. What do you think of Bern and Caspian's plan for freeing the other prisoners?
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Re: Chapter 3 – The Lone Islands

Postby Anhun » Jul 18, 2015 7:15 am

4. It wouldn't rule out the possibility that Eustace has been on a large boat. We don't know enough about his parents to know whether or not they take their son on boat trips. Even if he hasn't, you can bet that he's read a very thorough informational book about it. ;)

5. The population of Felimath is extremely small, according to Edmund. Pug probably already knows all of the inhabitants, and knew, on sight, that Caspian and Co. were foreigners. I would think if they were in the habit of enslaving Lone Islanders, they would not carry on their trade in Narrowhaven. It wouldn't be safe.

7. The people of the Lone Islands use Calormene Crescents because the islands are closer to Calormen:
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11. Drinian and Caspian's original plan would have freed their friends more quickly, but, as Bern pointed out, it would have put the entire group in jeopardy.

13. The plan to free the prisoners seems like something Odysseus would think of, and for me, reinforces the association between The Voyage of the Dawn Treader and The Odyssey. The big difference is, obviously, that the crew in the Dawn Treader are out looking for something, whereas the crew in the Odyssey are just trying to get home.
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Re: Chapter 3 – The Lone Islands

Postby waggawerewolf27 » Jul 18, 2015 7:11 pm

1. What does Lucy's comment about remembering the islands suggest about their years as Kings and Queens?

That the Pevensies, during their time as Kings and Queens were vigilant about visiting all of the areas they were sovereigns of, unlike their White Witchly predecessor, perhaps? Not unlike the biennial CHOGM sessions, the regular visits to Commonwealth countries, especially the 15 countries which have UK's Queen Elizabeth II as monarch, plus other state visits around the world, which are undertaken by modern day Royalty, when suitable, by national Presidents and Prime Ministers, when relevant, and other prominent world figures such as the Pope.

2. How do you think the Lone Islands became part of Narnia?

I think there is an explanation in one of the Narnia books but am not sure which offhand. Something about a King Gale and a dragon? I don't think it is in LWW or PC, and know it isn't in HHB either. Can anyone suggest which of the remaining books it might be in? And looking at the map of where the Lone Islands is, in relation to Narnia, I wonder what influence Narnia might have had in those Pevensie days with nearer places like Terebithia, the Seven Islands and Galma.

3. Lewis mentions that Caspian would not have suggested walking across Felimath if he had been more experienced. Why do you think he does this? Why did Edmund and Lucy, who arguably have more experience than Caspian, agree with his plan?

Lucy and Edmund seemed fairly sure they could drop in on these Islands with little ceremony, unlike going to the major port first. Felimath wasn't even usually inhabited, apart from sheep, and a village at one end, which probably had a ferry service to Narrowhaven on the opposite side of the strait between Felimath and Narrowhaven. Probably Lucy and Edmund could at one time even converse with some of the sheep as they took a walk.

C.S.Lewis mentions Caspian's inexperience, because, although Felimath looked reassuringly familiar to his friends, Caspian, when he suggested going there, hadn't had the same experience as they had of revisiting places after a long lapse of time had passed. Nor had he the same experience Lucy, Edmund and Eustace might have been aware of in our world of passports, passport checks etc, and embassies, and why they can't simply barge in on some remote part of the world unannounced. The visit to Galma went okay, Lucy and Edmund knew that Caspian was emperor of Lone Island, and that there was no need of the consular facilities Eustace demanded. I don't think that Lucy and Edmund realised the ramifications of Miraz's neglect, let alone Caspian, who knew about the Seven Missing Lords at any rate. Why, I wonder, though, would Lucy and Edmund forget anything they were ever told about why the Lone Islands belonged to Narnia?

4. Eustace doesn't like the small ship, but do you think he has been on large ones himself?

Eustace lived in an inland academic city, Cambridge, well away from seaports, so he might well have had little experience of any craft that is bigger than a rowing skiff or maybe a canal boat. But I doubt it. He seems to have suffered sea sickness earlier, on a ferry ride to the Isle of Wight, near Southhampton, to which he might have gone, if his parents wanted to farewell Susan and her parents. Even in immediate post-war days it was more usual to take a ship to go to North America, as passenger airlines were more expensive, and less reliable, though less time-consuming. And during the war, there would be warships in UK ports, not only passenger ships.

Anhun wrote:Even if he hasn't, you can bet that he's read a very thorough informational book about it
.

Of course. Unless the idea of sea sickness put him off too much. ;) But even larger seagoing passenger ships during and after the war weren't as big as the cruise ships of today. After the war, a lot of these ships, such as HMS Somersetshire, were used for migrant ships, so might have been almost as crowded and little more comfortable than the Dawn Treader. Besides, there are definite advantages in being on a smaller ship. For one thing, a smaller ship, with a shallower draught, is more manouevrable than a larger ship, is easier to get in and out of port, and through reefs etc., and is easier to salvage without massive machinery if it does get into trouble.
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Re: Chapter 3 – The Lone Islands

Postby King_Erlian » Jul 23, 2015 5:32 am

Amusing aside: in the Kindle version I have, "Doorn" has been misspelled as "Doom". The Island of Doom! I thought they weren't supposed to reach that till much later in the story...

1. What does Lucy's comment about remembering the islands suggest about their years as Kings and Queens?
They seem to have retained all of their memories of their time as Kings and Queens, even those of when they were physically older than they are now - or at least, if they had forgotten when they were in England, they remembered again when they returned to Narnia. It must have been very strange to have about 25 years of memories in a 10-year-old body.

As Kings and Queens, they certainly seemed to explore a good deal of the Narnian world (though they were never tempted to go beyond the Lone Islands and find out what was there). Talk about living life to the full!

2. How do you think the Lone Islands became part of Narnia?
If Calormen had always had this policy of gobbling up small kingdoms and making them part of its empire, maybe the Lone Islanders in the days before the White Witch (when a descendant of King Frank was on the throne) had approached Narnia for protection.

3. Lewis mentions that Caspian would not have suggested walking across Felimath if he had been more experienced. Why do you think he does this? Why did Edmund and Lucy, who arguably have more experience than Caspian, agree with his plan?
They hadn't come up against any danger so far on the voyage, and as far as Caspian, Lucy and Edmund were concerned, they were on friendly (and pretty much uninhabited) territory, so they probably didn't imagine anything bad would happen to them here. Also, when Edmund and Lucy were last there, they were adults and probably better able to defend themselves; maybe, being back in Narnia, they were starting to think of themselves in that way again.

4. Eustace doesn't like the small ship, but do you think he has been on large ones himself?
In Chapter One it said he'd only once been on a ship, and only as far as the Isle of Wight, which is only four miles off the mainland of England. Passenger ferries make the journey in about twenty minutes. He must have a particularly delicate stomach to get seasick in that time. Incidentally, the Isle of Wight is a wonderful holiday destination - I've been there quite a few times.

5. Pug was on the Lone Islands when he kidnapped Caspian and co. Why do you think he chose to do this? Was it his practice to kidnap people from the Lone Islands?
(a) He was there to sell the slaves he'd captured at the market, and (b) he was hiding out on Felimath where there were no people and no-one could find him. The other people in the ship were Galmians and Terebinthians; I don't expect the Lone Islanders would have been happy to buy their own neighbours as slaves.

6. What are some things that you think Reepicheep said to the slavers?
He starts off with "Coward! Poltroon!" This is funny as they're the first two names Sir Ruthven Murgatroyd is called by his ghostly ancestors in Gilbert & Sullivan's opera "Ruddigore". So I can imagine Reepicheep rattling off the entire list:

Coward, poltroon, shaker, squeamer, blockhead, sluggard, dullard, dreamer, shirker, shuffler, crawler, creeper, sniffler, snuffler, wailer, weeper, earthworm, maggot, tadpole, weevil!

As to how a Narnian mouse could know the lyrics to a Victorian English opera: maybe King Frank or Queen Helen was a G&S fan, or maybe Uncle Andrew had a copy of the libretto in his pocket which fell out when the Talking Beasts tried to plant "Brandy"... :-)

7. Why did the Lone Islands use Calormene money?
Maybe because Calormen was the biggest empire in that world, and so its currency had the biggest clout. Our equivalent would be the US dollar, though the Chinese yuan may overtake it before too long...

Interesting that Lewis puts in the comment that a Calormene crescent is worth a third of a pound. How could there be an exchange rate for two currencies in different worlds, when you could count on one hand the number of people who have travelled between them? Maybe it was based on buying power (a third of a pound would have been quite a lot in 1952 when the book was published), but even then, it would be difficult to determine for anything apart from basic things like food. I don't imagine there were many television sets on sale in Tashbaan.

8. Bern says he will treat Caspian well (before he knew it was Caspian). What do you think he meant by this?
Anyone sold as a slave would be terrified that they would be mistreated by their master, so Bern is reassuring Caspian that he won't do this. Shasta had the same concerns when Arsheesh was discussing terms with Anradin.

9. Bern's relationship with Caspian's father allows him to recognize Caspian for who he really is. How else does that connection show itself in this chapter and affect Bern's relationship with the current Caspian?
Caspian shows himself to be a capable and courageous king, and when Bern sees the Dawn Treader and meets Drinian and the crew it confirms that Caspian was telling the truth. He probably had seen the current Caspian when the latter was a little boy. Being reminded of Caspian's father (who presumably had been a good king) most likely galvanized him into action.

10. What do you like most about the description of Lord Berne and his home?
Everyone seems happy!

11. Why do you think both Drinian and Caspian wanted to start by freeing their friends by force? If Edmund had either been left on the boat or bought would that have been his idea too or do you think he would have considered other options at once?
They were probably thinking that the slave traders would be mistreating them, and possibly even that their lives were in danger.

According to LWW, Edmund was known as King Edmund the Just and was great at counsel, so I think he was more of a stragetist and would have tried to think of a safe plan.

12. Do you think Bern's experience makes up for Caspian's inexperience?
He certainly knows the situation in the Lone Islands far better than Caspian, and he knows Pug and Gumpas. He wanted to find a way to rescue the prisoners and overturn the slave market without risking life and limb unnecessarily.

13. What do you think of Bern and Caspian's plan for freeing the other prisoners?
It's ingenious, but it could so easily have failed - if one of Gumpas' men had looked in the place where the "fleet" was supposed to be and found it wasn't there, and called Caspian's bluff. They took quite a risk!
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Re: Chapter 3 – The Lone Islands

Postby waggawerewolf27 » Jul 23, 2015 10:37 pm

5. Pug was on the Lone Islands when he kidnapped Caspian and co. Why do you think he chose to do this? Was it his practice to kidnap people from the Lone Islands?

I have to agree that a pirate, or someone like Pug, scouring the seas for booty would need access to a central market where such booty would be easily disposed of. The Lone Island would be a useful place for such a market for such as Pug, especially on a less inhabited island like Felimath. The Lone Islands as an entity, seems to have been a place where its Narnian overlordship hasn't been all that evident for a long time. In the previous chapter, Caspian mentioned encountering a Terebinthian pirate ship that stood off, away from the Dawn Treader. Terebinthia seems also off limits due to sickness. Would Pug's incursions have had anything to do with the problems experienced by Terebinthia, especially as his captives seem to have been either Terebinthian or Galmian?

6. What are some things that you think Reepicheep said to the slavers?

Not being familar with Ruddigore, I can't imagine. In a very upper class and chivalrous manner of course, I'd imagine that what Reepicheep said to the slavers would have much resemblance to what cats might say when obliged to take medicine or being put into a bath. Eg, *%$=#5! ^X%*@#*. I'm sure that is what the slavers heard at any rate. ;))

7. Why did the Lone Islands use Calormene money?

I expect that the Lone Islanders had been so out of contact with Narnia they had no ready Narnian money of their own to use instead. So they used the Calormene money spent in the Lone Islands on slaves and whatever else could be bought there. It would be interesting to see what sort of money the Lone Islands used to pay tribute to the Narnian crown. And I don't know why Miraz, usually so greedy for money, never noticed.

8. Bern says he will treat Caspian well (before he knew it was Caspian). What do you think he meant by this?

He had been in the habit of buying slaves from Pug to release them later. Caspian was a special case, but it wasn't until after he bought Caspian, that we and he knew for sure just how special a case Caspian was.

9. Bern's relationship with Caspian's father allows him to recognize Caspian for who he really is. How else does that connection show itself in this chapter and affect Bern's relationship with the current Caspian?

Bern becomes considerably more deferential to Caspian. He is also confident enough to override Drinian and make suggestions when they meet and make plans for the rescue of the others.

10. What do you like most about the description of Lord Berne and his home?

I liked Bern's home since the place was well-run and nobody was enslaved. It also showed the Bern was to be trusted.

11. Why do you think both Drinian and Caspian wanted to start by freeing their friends by force? If Edmund had either been left on the boat or bought would that have been his idea too or do you think he would have considered other options at once?

I'm not sure Edmund would have suggested anything different from Drinian and Caspian. He would be concerned for Lucy and Reepicheep, for one thing. But why would he be anxious to free Eustace?

12. Do you think Bern's experience makes up for Caspian's inexperience?

Yes, it does. Bern knows Gumpas and what he can get away with this governor, for one thing. And he is that useful person in a strange place who knows how to manage the local gendarmerie and knows what their reactions are likely to be.

13. What do you think of Bern and Caspian's plan for freeing the others? It sounds like a good bluff. But it is Bern's idea, mainly, and he has the sort of inside knowledge which makes it more likely to succeed.
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Re: Chapter 3 – The Lone Islands

Postby Glumpuddle » Apr 28, 2016 10:15 am

3. Lewis mentions that Caspian would not have suggested walking across Felimath if he had been more experienced. Why do you think he does this? Why did Edmund and Lucy, who arguably have more experience than Caspian, agree with his plan?

That is a bit puzzling. Maybe you could say Edmund and Lucy's experience is a little bit out of date in this particular area. Most of their knowledge of the political climate of this world is a thousand years old.

Or maybe Lewis just wanted to give the reader a sense of unease about what to expect. ;)
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Re: Chapter 3 – The Lone Islands

Postby Pattertwigs Pal » Jul 16, 2016 7:07 pm

1. What does Lucy's comment about remembering the islands suggest about their years as Kings and Queens?
They traveled to the Lone Island. They didn’t go simply for business. They took time to take pleasant walks on an almost deserted island. This suggests that they had a good sense of balance. They were able to take time for themselves.

2. How do you think the Lone Islands became part of Narnia?
(Wagga, I don’t remember where the official explanation is either. Maybe in the Last Battle?)
Plausible explanations:
a. They were captured by Narnia. Unlike based on what know of the Narnian Kings and Queens. The White Witch seemed content with Narnia since she could have easily captured neighboring lands and didn’t. Thus, I doubt she captured them.
b. Narnian’s first discovered and populated them.
c. They were given to Narnia for some reason (they could have been part of a dowry)

3. Lewis mentions that Caspian would not have suggested walking across Felimath if he had been more experienced. Why do you think he does this? Why did Edmund and Lucy, who arguably have more experience than Caspian, agree with his plan?
Lewis could have wanted to give a reason behind Caspian’s decision. It is also a good way of foreshadowing that something will go wrong and that Caspian will gain more experience. It is hard to know how much Edmund and Lucy remember about their experiences. Also, in their day they had walked across there with no problem. It is interesting that he doesn’t realize the danger of being known as the king until he sees Pug and his men. The decision was made quickly; more experience could have lead to learning to think thoroughly before acting.

4. Eustace doesn't like the small ship, but do you think he has been on large ones himself?
No, I doubt the ship that took him to the Isle of Wight was large. At least not as large as a ship that would sail across the ocean.

5. Pug was on the Lone Islands when he kidnapped Caspian and co. Why do you think he chose to do this? Was it his practice to kidnap people from the Lone Islands?
Pug seems like a ruthless man but I can’t see him routinely kidnapping people on his own island. I don’t think the people would stand for it. He might have picked up an occasionally orphan but I don’t think he would risk more than that. He must have realized they were visitors to the area. I suppose their clothes gave them away, especially if the Pevensies and Eustace were back in their English clothes. Only 2 of them were armed and they were a relatively small group. Still, I think it was unwise because there was a lot he didn’t know about them. They appeared to be alone but they must have gotten to the island somehow and might have friends who would come after him. If he thought it through at all, I suppose he counted on the fact that he was in his own country and could easily get help from them.

6. What are some things that you think Reepicheep said to the slavers?
I think he probably called them cowards for not giving him his sword and fighting him. He probably called them poltroon like he did with Eustace.

7. Why did the Lone Islands use Calormene money?
To make it easier for the Calormens to buy slaves. They haven’t heard from Narnia in a while so there isn’t much point in staying with Narnian money (assuming that is what they had back when there was regular communication.)

8. Bern says he will treat Caspian well (before he knew it was Caspian). What do you think he meant by this?
He won’t beat him or over work him. He might even pay him or set him free.

9. Bern's relationship with Caspian's father allows him to recognize Caspian for who he really is. How else does that connection show itself in this chapter and affect Bern's relationship with the current Caspian?
Bern acts like a subject of Caspian’s and advises him. He has an instant respect for the son because he knew the father.

10. What do you like most about the description of Lord Bern and his home?
I like how Lewis connects the fact that Bern’s workers are freemen and that the fief was happy and prosperous. “Bern’s people … were all freemen and it was a happy and prosperous fief.”

11. Why do you think both Drinian and Caspian wanted to start by freeing their friends by force? If Edmund had either been left on the boat or bought would that have been his idea too or do you think he would have considered other options at once?
Caspian and Drinian wanted to take immediate action. That seemed like the fastest way (maybe even the only way) to help their friends. In LWW, we hear that Edmund was great in council so he might have taken the time to explore other options. In PC he is the one who thinks up the alternate route for them to take. He seems to take the time to think things through. I think he would consider several options before acting.

12. Do you think Bern's experience makes up for Caspian's inexperience?
Yes, I do. Bern is able to prevent Caspian from making mistakes and provide important information.

13. What do you think of Bern and Caspian's plan for freeing the other prisoners?
It is clever and less risky than an open attack.
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Re: Chapter 3 – The Lone Islands

Postby aileth » Jul 24, 2016 12:24 am

1. What does Lucy's comment about remembering the islands suggest about their years as Kings and Queens?
Certainly they did a lot more travelling than we know about from LWW. In fact, in this book we are given a lot of rich details that fill out the time of their reign, just in little tidbits of description. Maybe Lewis didn't know these things himself, until he came to write the next books, or maybe he liked to tease his readers by hinting and not filling in the gaps. (See question 2)

2. How do you think the Lone Islands became part of Narnia?
wagga wrote:I think there is an explanation in one of the Narnia books but am not sure which offhand. Something about a King Gale and a dragon? I don't think it is in LWW or PC, and know it isn't in HHB either. Can anyone suggest which of the remaining books it might be in?

That bugs me, because I can't remember which book it is, either. Wish I had a searchable version. (EDIT to add: LB, ch. 8 - along with references to Queen Swanwhite, Moonwood the Hare, etc.)
wagga wrote:Why, I wonder, though, would Lucy and Edmund forget anything they were ever told about why the Lone Islands belonged to Narnia?

Did they indeed forget, or did Lewis merely sidetrack us, a la Alice in Wonderland? Edmund seems to know, but Lewis cuts him off with his aside, and by the time we get back to the conversation, it has moved on.

3. Lewis mentions that Caspian would not have suggested walking across Felimath if he had been more experienced. Why do you think he does this? Why did Edmund and Lucy, who arguably have more experience than Caspian, agree with his plan?
As glumPuddle points out, there is that immediate element of suspense; an effective way of preparing you for what happens next. Inside, you are shouting at them: "Don't do it!" It was hardly strange that they would wish to walk around--how many days had they been on board?--and the island did look deserted.

4. Eustace doesn't like the small ship, but do you think he has been on large ones himself?
No, it says that he had only been on a ship to the Isle of Wight (and been seasick), which is 4 miles from the mainland. Hardly scope for a massive ship, I would think.

5. Pug was on the Lone Islands when he kidnapped Caspian and co. Why do you think he chose to do this? Was it his practice to kidnap people from the Lone Islands?
He had
just returned from cruising among the islands and capturing what he could.
I imagine Pug was an opportunist, willing to make money however it came. Most likely he didn't openly take Lone Islanders--certainly not to sell in the Fairhaven market. Who knows what he did when no one was looking?

6. What are some things that you think Reepicheep said to the slavers?
I like that quote, King_Erlian. Probably he added some good Shakespearian insults with a smattering of archaic words that we wouldn't even know. Perhaps a list of their antecedents. Evidently he had quite a rich vocabulary, seeing how amazed the slavers were that he could remember so much, instead of merely parroting a few phrases.

7. Why did the Lone Islands use Calormene money?
The islanders seemed to have more commerce with the Calormenes, who would have paid for goods with their own currency. There would have been a fair bit floating around, and people tend to use what is there. The map helps, too, Anhun. I didn't realize how close the islands were to Calormene.

8. Bern says he will treat Caspian well (before he knew it was Caspian). What do you think he meant by this?
I agree with Twigsy, that he would most likely have set him free. Of course, we (and Caspian) find out shortly thereafter that Bern didn't keep slaves of his own.

9. Bern's relationship with Caspian's father allows him to recognize Caspian for who he really is. How else does that connection show itself in this chapter and affect Bern's relationship with the current Caspian?
What is amazing is how quickly and joyfully he accepts the young king as his liege. There is no reluctance, no consideration of his own interests or how he can profit from the situation. He doesn't even offer one of his daughters as a bride. :)

10. What do you like most about the description of Lord Berne and his home?
Although all his people were freemen, they were still willing to work, and do so with cheerfulness. It would have been dreadful if they had been free and yet sitting around doing nothing.

11. Why do you think both Drinian and Caspian wanted to start by freeing their friends by force? If Edmund had either been left on the boat or bought would that have been his idea too or do you think he would have considered other options at once?
A natural impulse, I would say; direct and forceful, punish the evildoers, and so forth. Don't forget that just a few hours earlier Caspian had said that he would rather have a larger army if he had to re-capture the Islands. Edmund had more years of strategic planning under his belt, so he might have thought up more ideas. For that matter, I wonder if he had any plans brewing in his mind while in the belly of the slaver's ship?

12. Do you think Bern's experience makes up for Caspian's inexperience?
Since Caspian was willing to listen to his advice, yes. Bern had current knowledge of the political situation of the island, as well as more familiarity with life in general.

13. What do you think of Bern and Caspian's plan for freeing the other prisoners?
It worked. If it had failed, I suppose they still could have tried to sack the town, Walden style.
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