Chapter 8 - How They Left The Island

[coracle]

1. The horn was blown between 9 and 10 oclock in the morning - the same time as the children were at the railway station. How does this fit in with Narnian time being different from England?

2. Do you agree with Trumpkin that only a pompous fool would send someone to their death in such a grand manner as sending them to the ghosts?

3. Why do you think Trumpkin said it won't do to let Nikabrik see the treasure?

4. When Edmund starts geting a little defensive with Trumpkin, Lucy says they should listen to Peter because he is the High King and she thinks he has a plan. Why do you think she chose to remind Edmund that Peter was the High King?

5. How would Edmund feel, using his broadsword skills again?

6. How does each of the children behave toward Trumpkin?

[Ryadian]

1. The horn was blown between 9 and 10 oclock in the morning - the same time as the children were at the railway station. How does this fit in with Narnian time being different from England?
That's an excellent question. Personally, I think it's a factor of two things: first of all, magic doesn't work in predictable ways, but it likes significant ways, if you know what I mean. One of the fun things about fantasy is that magic doesn't have to work in specific ways by specific rules, barring stories where that's part of it - though, sometimes, it works in ways that have some significance to the story, such as all the stories where the curse can be broken by true love's kiss... because. So yeah, factor #1: half the fun of fantasy is that magic works on significance to the story/events as opposed to strict rules, and this element is significant to the characters.

Factor #2 is, very likely, simply to give Trumpkin and the children confirmation that it was the Horn that brought them to Narnia. Yes, the Horn could've been blown at any time and the children could have come from any time, but given that Trumpkin did need some convincing, I don't think it's an accident that this detail wasn't left to chance.

2. Do you agree with Trumpkin that only a pompous fool would send someone to their death in such a grand manner as sending them to the ghosts?
Ehhh, no. After all, a grand execution can be used for the purpose of sending a message - though, given that the owner of the castle and his guards seem to be the only ones who know about it, that hardly seems like a message. Also... well, in this case, it probably would've been a good idea to let Miraz interrogate the prisoner first. So yeah, this guy was a fool.

3. Why do you think Trumpkin said it won't do to let Nikabrik see the treasure?
Nikabrik strikes me as having a lot of the worst traits associated with dwarfs - stubborn, pragmatic to the point of heartlessness, etc. It's not that difficult to believe that Nikabrik may also be greedy, and would think of nothing but pillaging everything there.

4. When Edmund starts geting a little defensive with Trumpkin, Lucy says they should listen to Peter because he is the High King and she thinks he has a plan. Why do you think she chose to remind Edmund that Peter was the High King?
For one thing, if Edmund expects Trumpkin to respect them as Kings and Queens, then he needs to afford the same respect to Peter as High King. I think, in the heat of the moment (and because Edmund is still a boy again instead of a grown King), Edmund was prone to forget this, and Lucy wanted to remind him.

5. How would Edmund feel, using his broadsword skills again?
I think it'd feel exhilarating. Imagine being a young child again, but having a skill is thrilling as being able to fight like a trained soldier? In addition to that, it sure has to come with a lot of memory and nostalgia - he literally feels his old Narnian strength and kingship returning to him.

6. How does each of the children behave toward Trumpkin?
Peter acts much like a king - he treats Trumpkin with respect, but without denying any of his own authority in the matter. He also decides to prove himself - and his siblings - through actions instead of words. Susan is very considerate of Trumpkin's feelings, especially during the contest, and does her best not to stir up any conflict. Still, she doesn't want to let her family down, and still wins the contest even though she seemed tempted to throw it. Lucy, to some degree, treats Trumpkin as a sort of equal - though, like Peter, she never denies her place as Queen, she just doesn't wield it with the same kind of authority Peter does. Finally, there's Edmund. Edmund, obviously, gets very defensive when Trumpkin doubts their abilities or their places as Kings and Queens, and becomes very snarky and sarcastic with him ("little from you is a bit too much!"). Still, after his initial irritation abates and after Trumpkin realizes his mistake, Edmund is still kind of snarky - just in a much more affectionate way, hence "DLF".

[aileth]

1. The horn was blown between 9 and 10 oclock in the morning - the same time as the children were at the railway station. How does this fit in with Narnian time being different from England?
Did Lewis forget for a moment that the times didn't necessarily match? Or perhaps he put that in to make sure that we wouldn't assume that we knew all about the time differences. This bit reminds me of the healing of the nobleman's son in John 4.

2. Do you agree with Trumpkin that only a pompous fool would send someone to their death in such a grand manner as sending them to the ghosts?
Evidently the seneschal had not read the right kind of books. If he had, he would have known that any time the villain stops to boast or make elaborate plans, the hero always manages to escape. Invariably.
In this book there seems to be a lot of this sort of thing -- people pretending that they don't believe in things (Aslan, dryads, ghosts, etc.) but having an uneasy feeling deep down that maybe they do exist after all. Perhaps it's more a case of not wanting to believe in them, as Susan said later.

3. Why do you think Trumpkin said it won't do to let Nikabrik see the treasure?
Although Trumpkin tried to excuse Nikabrik's behaviour, he knew that the other dwarf was warped already, though perhaps he didn't guess how far wrong he had gone. Dwarfs were known for loving the riches of the earth -- jewels and precious metals -- and he would have been afraid of the extent that Nikabrik's greed might have taken him. I mean, look what he did without the temptation of the treasure house.

4. When Edmund starts geting a little defensive with Trumpkin, Lucy says they should listen to Peter because he is the High King and she thinks he has a plan. Why do you think she chose to remind Edmund that Peter was the High King?
Lucy seems to be a peacemaker. She didn't like being in a disagreement, or seeing others in conflict, but she very likely had figured out that a quiet approach was the most influential. And Edmund was willing to acknowledge the headship of Peter and listen to him, at least once he was reminded.

5. How would Edmund feel, using his broadsword skills again?
This is one of my favourite sections in this book. Edmund downplaying his abilities (somehow I don't think he was quite as humble as he sounded) and then having it all come back -- the skill, the memories, the feeling of kingship. It says later that Susan didn't enjoy her contest half so much, implying that Edmund did, and probably liked winning quite well.
The whole contest scene sort of ties into the next question.

6. How does each of the children behave toward Trumpkin?
Peter could see that they needed to prove themselves to the dwarf, so he set about winning his confidence in the most practical way that he could think of. Susan was sympathetic -- she hated to see him defeated twice, and didn't like Edmund's teasing. Once Edmund had gotten past feeling hot under the collar over Trumpkin's misunderstandings, (that swordfight cleared the air in more ways than one) he fell into a teasing comradeship that still had a good bit of respect for a worthy combatant. Lucy was a bit frustrated with his dimness at first, but showed once again that she had a compassionate and willing heart when she healed his wound.

One thing that struck me in this bit was what Edmund started to say when Peter interrupted him. Edmund had just said, "Little from you is really a bit too much," and mentioned the Battle of Beruna. Then he said,

"Well, you can say what you like about me because I know--"

Was he just talking at random, or was he hinting of his long-ago betrayal, which would have been part of the legends? Did he think that Trumpkin was thinking of that? He sounded very defensive, but that may have just been because Trumpkin was being condescending to them.

[Ryadian]

5. How would Edmund feel, using his broadsword skills again?
This is one of my favourite sections in this book. Edmund downplaying his abilities (somehow I don't think he was quite as humble as he sounded) and then having it all come back -- the skill, the memories, the feeling of kingship.

I love how the Focus on the Family version does this scene in that regard. The actor who plays Edmund plays this perfectly.

One thing that struck me in this bit was what Edmund started to say when Peter interrupted him. Edmund had just said, "Little from you is really a bit too much," and mentioned the Battle of Beruna. Then he said,

"Well, you can say what you like about me because I know--"

Was he just talking at random, or was he hinting of his long-ago betrayal, which would have been part of the legends? Did he think that Trumpkin was thinking of that? He sounded very defensive, but that may have just been because Trumpkin was being condescending to them.

Hmm, that's an interesting question. I'm inclined to say probably not, because Trumpkin has shown a lot of disregard for the old stories, and might not know all the nuances (such as Edmund's betrayal). It seems unlikely that Edmund would bring this up if Trumpkin didn't hint at it because, in my mind, Edmund still feels ashamed enough of what he did to avoid talking about it if he can. Then again, he's angry at this point and might not be thinking that far ahead. I think it's likely he may also have been about to say "because I know I am a King of Narnia".

[aileth]

I'd say your ending is more likely, Rya, and that Trumpkin was not thinking of such a thing. I guess the wording just struck me a bit differently this time through.

Then I got to thinking of the occasions when Edmund did bring up the subject. The only times that I could think of, where he mentions the past in that context, are cases where he is making allowances for others, rather than defending himself.

[Pattertwigs Pal]

1. The horn was blown between 9 and 10 oclock in the morning - the same time as the children were at the railway station. How does this fit in with Narnian time being different from England?
I assume Aslan arranged it that way to make it clear that the horn was connected to calling them.
2. Do you agree with Trumpkin that only a pompous fool would send someone to their death in such a grand manner as sending them to the ghosts?
Yes, it seems like a silly way to kill someone. And he looses 2 soldiers doing it.
3. Why do you think Trumpkin said it won't do to let Nikabrik see the treasure?I assume that he would be overcome with greed. He might then try to take over or do something drastic.

4. When Edmund starts getting a little defensive with Trumpkin, Lucy says they should listen to Peter because he is the High King and she thinks he has a plan. Why do you think she chose to remind Edmund that Peter was the High King?
She wanted to quickly end Edmunds behavior and that seemed like the best way to do it.
5. How would Edmund feel, using his broadsword skills again?
I imagine he liked it very much. It would have brought back a lot of memories. It seems like the kind of thing a boy would enjoy doing again.
6. How does each of the children behave toward Trumpkin?
Peter doesn't let himself get riled by him; he prefers to use action
Edmund attempts to use words and gets upset at Trumpkin, later he uses flattery and skill. He teases him.
Susan shows her displeasure when he says no help has come but is gentle when he looses to her.
Lucy shows her displeasure when she thinks he doesn't know who they are but heals him.