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Chapter 5 Caspian's Adventure in the Mountains

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Chapter 5 Caspian's Adventure in the Mountains

Postby Pattertwigs Pal » Nov 04, 2014 9:12 am

1. If Dr Cornelius taught Caspian all (or most) of the subjects described on the first page of this chapter, do you think he was preparing him for something in particular?

2. Why did Caspian not know that the queen was going to have a baby?

3. Why did it take so long for Caspian to realize why his life was in danger? Why do you think he never asked why he was not the king?

4. When Caspian hears that his uncle killed his father, "he felt very queer and said nothing". What sort of feelings do you think he had?

5. Doctor Cornelius tells Caspian that he endured many terrors and uttered many spells before finding the horn. What do you think happened to the horn in between Susan leaving it behind and Doctor Cornelius finding it?

6. In chapter 4 we learned that the Telmarines silenced the trees and that they are asleep. Yet, in chapter 5 Lewis writes "... and though he himself might be unlike other Telmarines, the trees could not be expected to know this. Nor did they." What do you think the state of the trees is? Were they trying to hurt or kill Caspian? Or was Lewis merely showing how Caspian felt?

7. Before hearing his story, Nikabrik points out that Caspian is most likely to betray them and tell the Telmarines about the Old Narnians. With that in mind, why did Trumpkin and Trufflehunter take care of Caspian instead of just leaving him there or killing him?

8. What does it mean that "[Narnia is] not Men's country [...] but it's a country for a man to be king of?

9. Do you think it is effective to have the events of the story seen through Caspian's eyes? Can you give an example where it works well?
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Re: Chapter 5 Caspian's Adventure in the Mountains

Postby Ryadian » Nov 17, 2014 12:28 pm

1. If Dr Cornelius taught Caspian all (or most) of the subjects described on the first page of this chapter, do you think he was preparing him for something in particular?
Most of those topics seem like preparation for being King. We know that Miraz had at least some say in Caspian's education, hence no navigation despite the fact that Cornelius certainly thought highly of it, but I imagine some of those things were Cornelius's idea. Personally, I've always thought that the more physical things - hunting, shooting a bow, etc. - were Miraz's idea, whereas the more intellectual ones were Cornelius's idea. It seems to me that Miraz is the type of person who would want his "heir" to be able to put on a good show for the other nobles, but he might care not all that greatly about Caspian having a good foundation of knowledge. Cornelius, of course, thinks otherwise; we know from later in the chapter that he's looking forward to Caspian becoming King, and wants him to be a good king when he does. He wants to prepare him as well as he can.

2. Why did Caspian not know that the queen was going to have a baby?
Given that Miraz was likely going to kill Caspian if he had a son, he probably didn't want Caspian to catch on too soon and run away (well, that worked out brilliantly ;) ). I wonder if Cornelius found out sooner, or if he didn't find out until the birth was announced - and if he did know sooner, why didn't he warn Caspian much sooner? On the hopes that the baby would be a girl?

3. Why did it take so long for Caspian to realize why his life was in danger? Why do you think he never asked why he was not the king?
I think Caspian is older now, but he's probably still not that old - probably still 12 or younger. He's probably too innocent to think of his uncle actually killing people for the throne. Besides that, as he asks Cornelius, why hadn't he done it a long time ago if he was going to? Caspian had grown up with the idea that his uncle was the King and had never considered how that happened, and was more or less comfortable with the idea. He probably assumed Miraz would stay comfortable with that arrangement.

4. When Caspian hears that his uncle killed his father, "he felt very queer and said nothing". What sort of feelings do you think he had?
Well, he'd probably always assumed that his father had died from natural causes (or, at least, more natural than being murdered). Finding out otherwise would leave a very sickening feeling in you. Besides that, I think the idea that Miraz was a murderer likely didn't sink in for him until one of his victims was someone so close to Caspian - and now this confirmed that Miraz was willing to kill family for his ambitions. There may also have been some guilt for going along with his father's murderer all these years, and some anger towards Miraz, though I think these would be overpowered by the feelings I mentioned before.

You know, this makes me think of in The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe,
when Lucy was kidnapped by Mr. Tumnus and didn't realize the danger she was in. I don't think Caspian was as innocent as Lucy - he was more or less raised by Miraz, how could he? - but there are certainly similarities. Oh, why did the movie have to make Caspian so much older? ;))


5. Doctor Cornelius tells Caspian that he endured many terrors and uttered many spells before finding the horn. What do you think happened to the horn in between Susan leaving it behind and Doctor Cornelius finding it?
Well, I think it depends on whether or not she had the horn on her when she went back through the wardrobe. Since the children apparently came back to England in the clothes they left with, it would appear that all Narnian things are left behind when you cross back over into England. But what happens to those Narnian things? I would imagine that the mundane things, like their clothes, would simply disappear. But the Horn was very powerful and given to Susan by Father Christmas; such an item does not so easily disappear. I think it likely was magically teleported elsewhere, or perhaps stayed in a sort of limbo between Narnia and England (I lean towards the latter). In that case, it would likely require a lot of effort and magical knowledge in order to find and retrieve.

6. In chapter 4 we learned that the Telmarines silenced the trees and that they are asleep. Yet, in chapter 5 Lewis writes "... and though he himself might be unlike other Telmarines, the trees could not be expected to know this. Nor did they." What do you think the state of the trees is? Were they trying to hurt or kill Caspian? Or was Lewis merely showing how Caspian felt?
I don't think the trees were actually trying to hurt Caspian. I see them, if these trees were awake at all, as having a similar attitude as Trumpkin - not really liking him, but not really willing to risk themselves or go so far as to actually hurt a boy. The Narnian trees never really struck me as that vindictive.
SHOW SPOILER "Later in the book"
Yes, they do fight back against the Telmarines later after Aslan awakens them, but these are grown soldiers, not children. Besides that, the tree that would've done the most damage to Caspian was the on that nearly fell on him - would one of the living trees really basically kill itself in an attempt to kill Caspian, when we know that the trees can move without falling over?


7. Before hearing his story, Nikabrik points out that Caspian is most likely to betray them and tell the Telmarines about the Old Narnians. With that in mind, why did Trumpkin and Trufflehunter take care of Caspian instead of just leaving him there or killing him?
Trumpkin and Trufflehunter have too much compassion, I think, to leave an injured boy lying in the woods to die - even if he is a Telmarine. Also, we know that Trufflehunter still has respect for Men, if not Telmarines; he remembers the old stories and still has a great deal of respect for the Kings and Queens of old. Trumpkin, of course, doesn't feel the same way, but if he was really torn between Nikabrik and Trufflehunter... well, Nikabrik hardly finds the most persuasive ways to say "Kill him already".

8. What does it mean that "[Narnia is] not Men's country [...] but it's a country for a man to be king of?
Narnia is a country of wilderness and creatures and magic; it's not a tame country. The country is meant to be enjoyed by the creatures who live there, who are primarily not Men. However, there needs to be some law, some order, to protect the good creatures and to root out the wicked. I think Men (aside from Aslan himself, of course) are more predisposed to law and order than the Talking Beasts or any of the other creatures, which is why Narnia is happiest when a good man (or woman ;) ) rules; the King/Queen respects the Narnians and their freedoms, but also makes and enforces just enough law to protect Narnia from internal and external forces.

9. Do you think it is effective to have the events of the story seen through Caspian's eyes? Can you give an example where it works well?
Yes, I do. For one thing, it gives a natural progression of when the audience learns things, such as how Miraz had previously murdered nobles and his brother in order to get the throne. If we'd seen the story through a more "objective" perspective, we probably would have had that information sooner, and then we, like Cornelius, would have to wonder how Caspian never put the pieces together before. Also, in a story where most of the Telmarines are wicked and cowardly, I think it's important to see things from Caspian's perspective so we can be reminded that he is completely different - he's young and scared, but willing to learn more about the true Narnia, and wants to set things right. When we see the whole story through his eyes, and watch him grow in understanding, that makes it a lot easier.
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Re: Chapter 5 Caspian's Adventure in the Mountains

Postby aileth » Nov 24, 2014 12:17 am

1. If Dr Cornelius taught Caspian all (or most) of the subjects described on the first page of this chapter, do you think he was preparing him for something in particular?
Well, of course we can guess what he was preparing him for, but it seems that those subjects would be fairly typical of what a noble's son might have learned in, for instance, the Medieval era. A mixture of physical skills, pleasant arts, and generally useful tidbits for understanding how the world went round.

2. Why did Caspian not know that the queen was going to have a baby?
That seems typical as well (until the 1900s at least) where women tended to disguise their condition until the last moment. It simply wasn't talked about. Nor had his aunt provided him with any previous experience to judge by, since she hadn't had babies before.

3. Why did it take so long for Caspian to realize why his life was in danger? Why do you think he never asked why he was not the king?
Maybe he assumed that it was normal for the king's brother to take over, rather than the son. Even today, there are monarchies in Asia and the Middle East where succession is usually granted to the brother of the king. Most of England's wars and risings and rebellions wouldn't have happened if they had had the royal primogeniture rules that apply today (for now). So it is only of recent years that it has been somewhat straightforward.

4. When Caspian hears that his uncle killed his father, "he felt very queer and said nothing". What sort of feelings do you think he had?
His head must have been spinning with an overload of information. Wouldn't you feel strange if you found out that someone you had known all your life was a murderer? And the murderer of your own father? He might not have liked Miraz very much, but he wasn't likely to have suspected such a thing.

5. Doctor Cornelius tells Caspian that he endured many terrors and uttered many spells before finding the horn. What do you think happened to the horn in between Susan leaving it behind and Doctor Cornelius finding it?
Now that's an interesting question. I don't think it could have left the Narnian world, though there's no telling. And how did the other gifts get back to the treasure-house--or were they not along for that ride?

6. In chapter 4 we learned that the Telmarines silenced the trees and that they are asleep. Yet, in chapter 5 Lewis writes "... and though he himself might be unlike other Telmarines, the trees could not be expected to know this. Nor did they." What do you think the state of the trees is? Were they trying to hurt or kill Caspian? Or was Lewis merely showing how Caspian felt?
He does sort of imply that the trees were not terribly friendly, to put it mildly. As to the sleep of the trees, I wonder if their state could be something like hibernation. Some animals sleep for months, while others sleep until a warm day comes, wake up, and then go back to sleep for a few more weeks or months. Perhaps the trees were not 100% comatose, just dozing. Could some areas have been "sleepier" and others more awake?

Think of the case in VDT that has been discussed,
about how Reepicheep was prophesied over by a dryad. Could she have been hibernating?


Too, the trees
SHOW SPOILER "Later chapter"
seemed livelier to Lucy, even before Aslan wakened the whole lot of them. Would they have responded if they had known and recognized her voice?


7. Before hearing his story, Nikabrik points out that Caspian is most likely to betray them and tell the Telmarines about the Old Narnians. With that in mind, why did Trumpkin and Trufflehunter take care of Caspian instead of just leaving him there or killing him?
All of the black dwarfs appeared to be suspicious by nature; Nikabrik was so soured, his default response seemed to be "Kill them!" no matter who it was (Caspian and Cornelius). To quote LM Montgomery, "he measured (him) by his own half-bushel, and shorted himself thereby."

Trumpkin and Trufflehunter were kindly and hospitable by nature, so it isn't astonishing that they would help even a man creature. Maybe it was a case of casting bread upon the waters.

8. What does it mean that "[Narnia is] not Men's country [...] but it's a country for a man to be king of?
Aslan gave it to the beasts, and ordained that it should be ruled by humans. Lewis hadn't written MN yet, so this is an interesting point that he expanded on later.
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Re: Chapter 5 Caspian's Adventure in the Mountains

Postby Pattertwigs Pal » May 23, 2015 1:46 pm

1. If Dr Cornelius taught Caspian all (or most) of the subjects described on the first page of this chapter, do you think he was preparing him for something in particular? It seems like a well-rounded education. I assume that in Narnia it was common practice for princes and likely the wealthier boys to be given a well-rounded education.

2. Why did Caspian not know that the queen was going to have a baby?
I get the impression that Caspian was kept separate from the king and queen. Miraz sent for him when he wanted to see him and Cornelius tells Caspian he will get Caspian food from "your Highness's supper table" not from the King's table. Also, the Queen might have been confined to her chambers. Pregnancies are not always talked about. Caspian also seems to be rather naive.

3. Why did it take so long for Caspian to realize why his life was in danger? Why do you think he never asked why he was not the king?
He is used to the way things have been and is naive. He probably wants to think the best of his uncle he can. He sure ought to have made the connection that he likely should be king and I feel bad for Cornelius that his lessons failed to get through to Caspian. Once again Caspian was used to the way things were and likely assumed that was how they should be.
4. When Caspian hears that his uncle killed his father, "he felt very queer and said nothing". What sort of feelings do you think he had?
Shock, disbelief, anger, fear, horror
5. Doctor Cornelius tells Caspian that he endured many terrors and uttered many spells before finding the horn. What do you think happened to the horn in between Susan leaving it behind and Doctor Cornelius finding it?
I always assumed that it remained where it was dropped, likely in dense underbrush.
6. In chapter 4 we learned that the Telmarines silenced the trees and that they are asleep. Yet, in chapter 5 Lewis writes "... and though he himself might be unlike other Telmarines, the trees could not be expected to know this. Nor did they." What do you think the state of the trees is? Were they trying to hurt or kill Caspian? Or was Lewis merely showing how Caspian felt?
Maybe they somehow subconsciously sensed the presence of a human and lashed out? It could just have been how Caspian felt. Maybe they were sleep attacking?
7. Before hearing his story, Nikabrik points out that Caspian is most likely to betray them and tell the Telmarines about the Old Narnians. With that in mind, why did Trumpkin and Trufflehunter take care of Caspian instead of just leaving him there or killing him? Trufflehunter seems like a very caring creature. I don't think he would have liked to see anyone suffer. Maybe Caspian did not seemed threatening? He was the only a boy. There might have been something about him that was noble and different from normal Telmarines. They might have reacted without thinking when they saw him hurt.

8. What does it mean that "[Narnia is] not Men's country [...] but it's a country for a man to be king of?
Maybe it is something like in the Garden of Eden when Adam was supposed to rule over the animals. There should be more non-humans in Narnia than humans and they should have the same rights as humans. Man must have a wisdom and/or ablity to rule that others do not. They must however hold the non-humans in high esteem.

9. Do you think it is effective to have the events of the story seen through Caspian's eyes? Can you give an example where it works well?
Since it is his story it makes a lot of sense that it should be slanted to his perspective. It works well when we hear that "Caspian ... felt brave and, in a way, happy, to think that he was King Caspian riding to seek adventure ..."
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