Susan vs. Lilliandil

[wild rose]

Josh I agree with you, a lot of the character development was messed up. In fact I'm not happy at all with the way they presented Lilliandil, she seemed a little too teenager for me, I was expecting someone more elegant and mature, could be just me. Personally I think they handled the romance in PC quite well, at least I have no complaintes at all, but in VDT, I was expecting a bit more

[puddleglum32]

VDT was not the best movie ever. It had its good and bad moments. the way the characters acted was sorta good and bad.

[LittleLionTamer]

I support.. I actually don't really know, to be honest.

I must say, Suspian does not at all bother me for all the while through PC I actually expected them to kiss in the end.
I was pretty glad that he at least mentioned her once in VotDT, and it was good because otherwise he'd look like a man that is King now and can have any woman in the world. Okay, that MIGHT sound a little harsh, but seriously? The moment with Caspian and Lilliandil personally made Caspian look so shallow to me for it seems at least to me is just impressed by her looks. Okay, so does it with Susan, but he was younger there and it was his first crush and she was probably the first girl he ever came close to. So, it made sense. He had a prince-crush.
I would have liked a story between Ramandu's Daughter and Caspian, not Lilliandil and Caspian. And here comes the second reason why I am not a big fan of that shipping.
Lilliandil. I mean, her actress is gorgeous and everything, but she glows. She's a star, she can poof into the air as she pleases. And as a star, you'd expect her to be immortal. Now I personally think out there are way too many books and movies of a human falling in love with an immortal being and I honestly have no idea how they want to transform that into a working relationship unless they change Narnia into a new "Stardust" or "Lord of the Rings" with Arwen and Aragorn. It was romantic in the beginning, yes, but I personally can't see it anymore. Where are the good old stories that Men actually fall in love with plain regular HUMAN women? Women you can actually relate yourself to. Ramandu's Daughter was only described as the daughter of a star, as a human woman, not as a star herself.
So, what's going to happen? Yeah, probably the "Aragorn and Arwen syndrome". Lilliandil gives her immortality to be with Caspian forever. That's what I expect to happen and this is one of the reasons that the movie made it really hard for me to like this shipping.
So yeah, please don't really hate me for seeing it this way. It's just my personal point of view. I wish they'd given Lilliandil less glow and less epic and made her look more human, like in the books.

[Elanor]

I so completely can agree with you in just about all of that, LittleLionTamer. I've always loved the relationship between Ramandu's Daughter and Caspian - but Lilliandil was just - a joke. Done very badly, a silly idea - why did they make her a blue glowing star!!!! I totally agree with the immortal stuff being silly, and how Caspian just looked at her and thought "Oh, pretty!" and everyone thinks it's a romance. He liked her for her looks, and then never mentioned her again! Didn't make much sense.
At least he was with Susan for awhile, met her more than once.

[DamselJillPole]

I will agree that i wish VDT would have made Lilliandil more human looking rather than this glowly figure.

I don't agree that Caspian only liked Lilliandil for her looks I can say the same for Suspian that both Caspian and Susan liked each other because of their looks. it was the vibe i was getting the entire time.

I think with Caspian seeing lilliandil it was love at first sight. For three years Caspian couldn't find a queen because like he said "At least no one who could compare to your sister" with lilliandil he saw something in her that he was looking for otherwise he wouldn't have wasted his time trying to fall for Lilliandil. It was true love and it is true love.

I just wished he could have said something in Aslan's Country about going back to Ramandu's Island to meet lilliandil again. Book fans know that they will but the general audience dont or those who want to be in complete denial don't.

IDK I do support the true romance but more could have been done between Caspian and Lilliandil.

[Elanor]

Okay a question - if you had never read the books, and watched the movies, would you really think that Lilliandil was any more a love at first sight than Susan? How is there a difference, other than Caspian got to know Susan a lot better? Why is one, and the under developed one, true love, and the other not? Does not make sense to me.

[DamselJillPole]

To be honest the suspian romance is the kind of romance I hate seeing in films or reading. They didn't know each other. Caspian told her he wished they had more time together. Even my friends, family and mom who have not read the books thought it was done cheesy. I'm not meaning to offend you or anything at all and I hope you don't think i am but the infatuated glances and cheesy lines and Susan kissing Caspian didn't help their romance at all, it came off as spontaneous and impulsive.

Granted if i never read the books all my life and if the archery scene had stayed in the film yes I probably would have liked Suspian.

In the film the romance was messy and underdevleoped. I wanted to know why they liked each other and why they made made such great impact on each other besides glances and Susan occasionally sticking up for Caspian. I don't find this to be love or real romance.

Hopefully in Silver Chair if it's ever made if the production has any sense and uses their brian this time whatsoever hopefully they'll give us some flashbacks of Caspian/Lilliandil falling in love and getting married. They do indeed go through a lot more than Caspian and SUsan. This is why i support Caspian/Lilliandil because they took vowels and are together in Aslan's Country. They are soulmates and i think it is a beautiful thing.

[Elanor]

Oh, I totally agree with a lot of that!! As Caspian and Lilliandil spend their lives together, of course in all it's the developed, real romance. But we're talking about from the movies that have been made, just seeing that one scene - it isn't a romance then, and Suspian is much more so. That's all I'm saying.

[DamselJillPole]

Granted but in Silver Chair Caspian and Lilliandil have a son and Caspian will mourn over Lilliandil's death and possibly the flashbacks Ben Barnes and the producers were talking about doing.

Most people think Suspian is better because of the screentime Susan and Caspian got throughout the whole movie but putting all their scenes together when their together it's only about almost two minutes. And Susan kissed Caspian, although he liked it like every man in the world would, he didn't kiss her or kiss her back. That's one thing that pet peeves me is when people say "They kissed" Susan kissed him, there's a difference. His lips weren't even in a pucker if you look at the picture of the kiss.

With fantasy movies and movies in general people need to broaden their minds a little more with rather than is actually shown but what is going to be there. Caspian isn't going to stay on Aslan's border to his country when we last saw him. He told Lilliandil that he hopes to meet her again and we saw his face was sincere and truthful. He's going to sail back to Narnia, he's going to go by the same islands in doing so too.

So yes I believe 100% that human beings can broaden their minds more then what they are actually shown on film.

[LittleLionTamer]

I guess this is all true, and we can only wait what Silver Chair holds for us if it's going to be produced.

But the thread alone makes the subject look very movieverse, since in the books there has not even been a Susan vs. Lilliandil and that's why I'm saying, Caspiandil makes no sense. Not to me, at least. I liked the shipping in the books but the movie version just seems so unsympathic to me. I don't know, I just can't grow warm to it, and it's mostly because of Lilliandil's super epic star form. It makes her look so cold, so unreachable, of course angel like but not someone you personally can find yourself in. And let's face it - so many people (including me) would like to be Caspian's queen themselves if they could, and now I'm really just talking about me - I could find myself in Susan rather than in Lilliandil, and that's why this couple has a bonus for me. Not because of her character, simply the fact that she's this normal girl that you can meet anywhere on the street. Neither of us will ever turn into a glowing ball and shoot up the sky and I really have NO clue why they turned her into a true star, and didn't keep her as just a star's daughter. Now is the question for me (and I'm immensely curious for it) how they will change the storyline between them two, because they have to. I am sure you can agree with me that they at least have to put in a plot that explains us why Lilliandil suddenly decides to leave her home place, the sky, to become Narnia's queen, and why she would give up her immortal being (Maybe she isn't, but really, to me it looks like she is.) for becoming Caspian's Queen. That sounds like an amazing plot but would be almost a whole part of the movie itself and I doubt they will get so much flashback time. So yeah, I have no idea how they want to step out of this whole Lilliandil is a true star thing.

[DamselJillPole]

Yeah I agree a tiny bit LittleLionTamer on the backstory for Lilliandil. I believe that when you're in love you're in love. This discussion is sort of reminding me of the racist days only in fantasy terms. Real life: It looks bad for a black person to marry a white person. Fantasy: It looks bad for a star to marry a human.
I'm sorry but it reminds me exactly like that. So in terms since people in real life are now with different ethics can we try to atleast see it that way in a fantasy world?

Back to Lilliandil's backstory, that bothers me a lot and I hope they explain that. I read a story on fanfiction.net by someone named Darkdancer07 I think and she explained how Lilliandil became human to be with Caspian so perfectly I didn't feel like I was reading a fanfic but what actually happens.

Mostly what is bothering me too is how are the audience going to react when Lilliandil dies from the snake bite? I'm sure CS Lewis will be crying up in Heaven knowing lots of people are going to be cheering that she is dead instead of feeling sympathy for her, Caspian and Rilian. That is why they really need flashbacks in Silver Chair otherwise it will be sad that lots of people wont feel sympathy for her.

[Elanor]

Again, I totally agree with you, LittleLionTamer.
And Damsel - though those who have read the book, and are huge fans of the romance between Ramandu's daughter and Caspian, will never believe it, there was no romance between them in VDT. And there was one between Susan and Caspian. That's what it comes down too. Not talking about what is made up in the people who watch the movie's minds, or what will happen in SC, or what was in the books.

[DamselJillPole]

Susan and Caspian is not even real romance. But this is all by opinion anyway. We'll see when Silver Chair comes out. I thought Caspian was very well attracted to Lilliandil and flirted with her in a way he never did with Susan. They will marry, have a son and are eternally together in Aslan's Country and that's my kind of romance. Everyone has and likes different kinds of romance and sees it differently.

[puddleglum32]

I like Lilliandil and Caspian because I think the Susan thing was short-lived, and i think Caspian sorta forgot about Susan in VDT.

[LittleLionTamer]

I didn't mean what I said any way "racistic", I just plainly said that I personally can relate myself to women who don't have special powers or live in the sky better than to those who carry a slighty Mary-Sue like radiance. I saw the movie with my friends and they misinterpreted Lilliandil absolutely and completely wrong in the first place. They thought she wanted to kill the crew with the food until she started talking about Dark Island. So yeah, it seems and looks to me like everyone interpreted her role differently, but there is no clear point given that she's supposed to be Caspian's wife. I am pretty sure lots of people will be shocked should there be a flashback. If there is. But if not, I'm very sure that the audience who is oblivious to the books will expect Caspian to marry some random Telmarine woman, well, depending on the looks they give Rilian. But I respect everyone who think's different, yet it feels good to finally get that off my chest somehow. I barely know any people I truly can discuss it with about . And it's interesting to see how the minds are split in this case.

[DamselJillPole]

^ Um... no. Two things I didn't say you were being racist I said it reminded me of those times. And it is clearly stated in both books VDT, SC, LB that he married the star of Ramandu.