Chapter 9: Barrels Out of Bond

[Lady Arwen]

1. Bilbo has clearly learned how to be resourceful and think on his feet. Do you think the dwarves have learned anything from their adventures? Why or why not?
2. Tolkien suggests that part of the reason Gandalf went away might have been so the dwarves would learn to trust Bilbo. What do you think? Is that something Gandalf would do?
3. The dwarves seem to have no use for Bilbo's plan at first, until they realize there is absolutely no other chance of escape. Even then, they seem reticent. What do you think finally convinced them to risk so much to escape? Why would it perhaps be easier to stay in the prison of the Elves?
4. When talking with the dwarves, Bilbo notes that he might never get a chance at the keys again, "even if I feel inclined to try." Do you think Bilbo was using a power play against the dwarves? What could he have done if they didn't buy his argument?
5. When Bilbo is finally on shore, he steals some food but is nearly discovered by his footprints and sneezes. How would you react to these strange things, if that was all you saw? What do you think the elves thought?

[GlimGlum]

1. Yes. They have learned that Bilbo has become a valuable asset as Gandalf predicted.

[Meltintalle]

1. Ditto GlimGlum.
2. I agree with this set of statements as well. Gandalf would have wanted the dwarves to rely less on magical solutions and more on using their heads, which would be something he could trust a hobbit to do.
3. Because... because... they didn't really want to sit around alone, even if they did get free food and lodging for life. And maybe they thought that if they went back Bilbo would be fed up and leave.
4. I don't think Bilbo was thinking in terms of 'my way or the highway'. I see it more as him stating the facts as he saw them. If the dwarves had refused, he could have gone home, or kept thinking until he came up with a more palatable escape that would then end in disaster for everyone. Or they could have waited until the feast next year by which time they would have been ready to try anything.
5. I would be very concerned. Actually, I wondered what happened when they went back out on the river. Surely Bilbo didn't stop sneezing just because it was daylight? Why didn't the raft-elves notice him then?

[ValiantArcher]

1. They've kind of learned to trust Bilbo. (As Mel and Glimmie have said.)

2. Yes, I think that sounds entirely likely and reasonable.

3. It would've been easier to stay with the Elves because their lives aren't actually in any danger there! Ditto what Mel said about free food and lodging for life too. As for them finally leaving, I think they reluctantly saw Bilbo's point about this being a rare chance to escape. They still do have a quest to finish!

4. I think Bilbo was tired of hiding and frustrated at the dwarves' reluctance to leave. If they hadn't come along, I don't think he would've abandoned them. However, I suppose he may've left anyhow and gotten in touch with Gandalf for help.

5. To be honest, I'd probably think someone was playing pranks on me. If I discovered they weren't, then I would probably be concerned. I'm not sure what the Elves actually thought was going on...

Mel, Tolkien says that there wasn't enough sun to cast a shadow and that it was a mercy he didn't sneeze for a long time. I guess he just dried off and warmed up enough?

[Movie Aristotle]

1. They probably have, but since they are used to adventures, they probably haven't gained as much experience from this adventure as Bilbo has.

2. Yes. That was probably part of the reason. Most of the reason was of course the incident at Dol Goldur.

3. After a few weeks in prison, I think they were wiling to risk it rather than go back to solitary confinement.

4. If the dwarves hadn't listened to Bilbo, then he might have followed the river and sought help in Lake-town. That is the only plan I can come up with at the moment.

5. I suppose I would be concerned that some evil might be at work. Mirkwood is not as wholesome a place as it once was...

[Pattertwigs Pal]

1. Bilbo has clearly learned how to be resourceful and think on his feet. Do you think the dwarves have learned anything from their adventures? Why or why not? Not really. They have learned to trust Bilbo and they are setting guards but they still rely on others to get them out of messes.

2. Tolkien suggests that part of the reason Gandalf went away might have been so the dwarves would learn to trust Bilbo. What do you think? Is that something Gandalf would do? Gandalf made it clear that he had other business to attend to (and we know he did) so I think that was why he left. However, I do think it sis something he would do. He worked hard to get Bilbo to go on the quest; it is logical he would work to make him useful.

3. The dwarves seem to have no use for Bilbo's plan at first, until they realize there is absolutely no other chance of escape. Even then, they seem reticent. What do you think finally convinced them to risk so much to escape? Why would it perhaps be easier to stay in the prison of the Elves? They are desperate. They don't want to be locked up in prison and Bilbo's announcement that he may not try to get them out knocks some sense into them. Their cells are larger than barrels and have a food supply. It is the safest route.
4. When talking with the dwarves, Bilbo notes that he might never get a chance at the keys again, "even if I feel inclined to try." Do you think Bilbo was using a power play against the dwarves? What could he have done if they didn't buy his argument?He was in a way but I don't think it was a calculated one. He was responding out of emotions. He was hurt and annoyed bu the dwarves words so he just reacted. He was doing his best to help them and they were complaining instead. He could have disappeared and left them alone.
5. When Bilbo is finally on shore, he steals some food but is nearly discovered by his footprints and sneezes. How would you react to these strange things, if that was all you saw? What do you think the elves thought?
Probably by raising a commotion and panicking. I think the people who saw and heard the strange things feared some kind of unknown evil and were puzzled that they couldn't find him. The might have guessed it was something invisible.

[Ithilwen]

1. Bilbo has clearly learned how to be resourceful and think on his feet. Do you think the dwarves have learned anything from their adventures? Why or why not?

I think they have learned not to overestimate themselves, and especially not to underestimate others, since Bilbo proved himself where they did not.

2. Tolkien suggests that part of the reason Gandalf went away might have been so the dwarves would learn to trust Bilbo. What do you think? Is that something Gandalf would do?

I certainly think he hoped that would happen. But the main reason he left was because he was badly needed elsewhere, what with the situation with the Necromancer.

3. The dwarves seem to have no use for Bilbo's plan at first, until they realize there is absolutely no other chance of escape. Even then, they seem reticent. What do you think finally convinced them to risk so much to escape? Why would it perhaps be easier to stay in the prison of the Elves?

At first, when they won't accept his plan, that's their pride and doubt talking. When they finally realize the situation they're in, they come to their senses and realize that whether they like it or not, this is their only hope.

4. When talking with the dwarves, Bilbo notes that he might never get a chance at the keys again, "even if I feel inclined to try." Do you think Bilbo was using a power play against the dwarves?

The part about never getting the keys again is to show them this is their only chance. The later bit about feeling inclined to try is just a jab at them because he's angry.

5. When Bilbo is finally on shore, he steals some food but is nearly discovered by his footprints and sneezes. How would you react to these strange things, if that was all you saw? What do you think the elves thought?

I would probably think I was hallucinating. The Elves, though, know about magical things, so I'm sure they had suspicions of another kind.


~Riella

[Varnafinde]

1. Bilbo has clearly learned how to be resourceful and think on his feet. Do you think the dwarves have learned anything from their adventures? Why or why not?

I think they are beginning to learn to trust and appreciate Bilbo. Not fully yet, but they are recognizing his resourcefulness more. They see that even though what he does, may not be the most comfortable solution, it may well be the only possible one.