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Letter 25

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Letter 25

Postby Meltintalle » Mar 27, 2012 6:19 am

1. Screwtape reiterates the thought that "Christianity And" is a most desirable state of mind from his point of view. What do you think are some symptoms of "Mere Christianity?"

2. Screwtape talks about the benefits from making people afraid of the "Same Old Thing" and making them constantly seek novelty. If people combat that by insisting on keeping the "Same Old Thing," is that harmful too? In other words, is it necessary to have a balance between change and permanence in one's life?
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Re: Letter 25

Postby ValiantArcher » Apr 08, 2012 1:35 pm

1. Well, I guess more of a focus on Christ than on some social project. If people are 'merely Christian' than their attention isn't as divided, and they're less susceptible to being side-tracked. I'm not entirely clear on the question, I'm afraid. :ymblushing:

2. Yes, the permanence helps you get through the change. In the end, the only permanent thing is God, so it's pretty futile and harmful to insist on certain things always staying the same, especially when it changes regardless. At the same time, if you don't have some 'permanent' things, you won't have any grounding or shelter and will simply just float around. Knowing that there are certain things---such as people who love you, a house to shelter you, a God that is good, etc.---that will always be there (well, short of some catastrophe for the first two) helps you to have some reason to get through the challenges and something to come back to again and again.
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Re: Letter 25

Postby Pattertwigs Pal » Apr 25, 2012 6:54 pm

1. Screwtape reiterates the thought that "Christianity And" is a most desirable state of mind from his point of view. What do you think are some symptoms of "Mere Christianity?"
I think a key aspect is that they see Christ as being the first and most important part of their religion. They probably would be well balanced rather than focusing on one aspect of Christ's teaching / part of the religion. Many people focus on a specific branch of Christianity. A symptom of Mere Christianity would be to think of oneself as Christian rather than say Lutheran or Catholic, etc. or at least thinking of yourself as Christian first and one of those second.
2. Screwtape talks about the benefits from making people afraid of the "Same Old Thing" and making them constantly seek novelty. If people combat that by insisting on keeping the "Same Old Thing," is that harmful too? In other words, is it necessary to have a balance between change and permanence in one's life?
As much as I don't like change, I think it is sometimes necessary, especially if things aren't working. I know there are stories about people who don't adapt or change and it ends up not being harmful for them or others but I can't think of any good examples now. :P The best I can come up with is teachers not adapting to new technology in the classroom / changing their teaching style when what they are doing isn't working.
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Re: Letter 25

Postby Meltintalle » May 10, 2012 4:49 pm

1.
... above all [they were Christians] who experienced life with God as a source of joy and not repression--Philip Yancy


I think, especially in the context of these letters, that joy would be seen as a symptom. Screwtape is quite sharp with Wormwood when he allows the Patient to do "something he really enjoyed" and they try to drag the Patient down.

2. If the natural order of things is a balance between change and familiarity, then either extreme is to be avoided. I'd say too much novelty is jading, and too much routine is stagnating.
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Re: Letter 25

Postby Eustace » Jul 10, 2012 12:51 am


1. Screwtape reiterates the thought that "Christianity And" is a most desirable state of mind from his point of view. What do you think are some symptoms of "Mere Christianity?"


If you are devoted to just Christianity at the core then you will not be pushing other useless second agendas along. You will not add them to Christianity or make them seem like somehow you have to follow those things as well just to be saved.

2. Screwtape talks about the benefits from making people afraid of the "Same Old Thing" and making them constantly seek novelty. If people combat that by insisting on keeping the "Same Old Thing," is that harmful too? In other words, is it necessary to have a balance between change and permanence in one's life?

I almost think most people look it at this the wrong way. Yes, in some things change is needed, but that does not mean you need to change everything. Some things which people have been doing for years still can and should be done without requiring change. Something are best left as they are. If we change simple things to more complex than sometimes we lose sight of what really matters.
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Re: Letter 25

Postby Ithilwen » Jul 30, 2012 9:32 pm

1. Screwtape reiterates the thought that "Christianity And" is a most desirable state of mind from his point of view. What do you think are some symptoms of "Mere Christianity?"

If you are a Mere Christian, I think you probably have a healthy Biblical view of things, loving God for being God and Christ for being Christ. "Christianity And" is a very common thing. It seems to come from two different sins - one, idolatry; the other, using Christ as the means to an end.

2. Screwtape talks about the benefits from making people afraid of the "Same Old Thing" and making them constantly seek novelty. If people combat that by insisting on keeping the "Same Old Thing," is that harmful too? In other words, is it necessary to have a balance between change and permanence in one's life?

It's definitely a balance. As the letter said, God purposely made it to be a balance, and gave us a longing for both change and permanence so that we would enjoy and try to keep that balance.

Another thing I found interesting in this letter is that the demons encourage people to fight against the opposite of what their problems really are. For example, violent people would be encouraged to think on the dangers of Pacifism, etc.


~Riella =:)
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Re: Letter 25

Postby stargazer » Jul 31, 2012 2:40 pm

1. Screwtape reiterates the thought that "Christianity And" is a most desirable state of mind from his point of view. What do you think are some symptoms of "Mere Christianity?"

"Mere" Christianity is God-focused - centered on the Father as Creator, Christ as Redeemer and King, Holy Spirit as Comforter and Guide. As such it's dangerous to Screwtape and the others. On the other hand, "Christianity And" adds something human to that gospel, potentially distracting us from focusing on God alone.

2. Screwtape talks about the benefits from making people afraid of the "Same Old Thing" and making them constantly seek novelty. If people combat that by insisting on keeping the "Same Old Thing," is that harmful too? In other words, is it necessary to have a balance between change and permanence in one's life?

Screwtape points out the need for this balance, citing examples in nature (the cycle of the seasons - each spring is something new, yet reassuring in its recurrence) and the church calendar (with its recurring feasts and fasts).

Screwtape spells out some of the risks of craving novelty, but I think insistence on the "Same Old Thing" comes with its own risks: it can make us rigid, inflexible - even if we should somehow become misdirected along the way.

I like these thoughts on craving novelty: change is a part of creation and not wrong in itself, but focusing on constantly needing something new can drain our resources (Screwtape mentions money; the need to always get more can lead to greed) and divert our attention from the Creator.
But all night, Aslan and the Moon gazed upon each other with joyful and unblinking eyes.
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Re: Letter 25

Postby Movie Aristotle » Aug 07, 2012 1:33 pm

When reading this book previously, I picked up on the dangers of following fashion but somehow I missed Lewis’ suggestions on how to withstand it, by asking the right kind of questions: “Is it righteous? Is it prudent? Is it possible?”

stargazer wrote:I like these thoughts on craving novelty: change is a part of creation and not wrong in itself, but focusing on constantly needing something new can drain our resources (Screwtape mentions money; the need to always get more can lead to greed) and divert our attention from the Creator.


Screwtape hints at how novelty in art has lead to bad art. I've noticed that before. In striving to do something "new" or "different" artists tend to just get more and more sinful. Consider how movie makers are always trying to "push the boundaries" and do something "that has never been done before" and in the process just create smut, which not only has been done before but is being done constantly. I find it amazing that filmmakers can't see it. I suppose this has something to do with "lecherous ones" guarding against "Puritanism."

It was interesting to think about the misuse of the word “Stagnant”. Not all things that are still are stagnant.

1. Screwtape reiterates the thought that "Christianity And" is a most desirable state of mind from his point of view. What do you think are some symptoms of "Mere Christianity?"

I suppose the answer to that question is a Reading Group discussion in itself. ;)
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