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Letter 19

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Letter 19

Postby Meltintalle » Mar 06, 2012 7:46 am

1. Screwtape makes the claim that Love is impossible and it doesn't make sense. We know that Love is indeed possible; however does it make sense? Why or why not?

2. In and earlier letter, Screwtape implied that small sins were better than larger sins, using the example that cards are better then murder if cards will work. Why, then, in this letter, does he hope that "prolonged, 'noble', romantic, tragic adulteries end in murders and suicides?

3. "Love is...from the point of view of the spiritual life, mainly raw material." Do you agree or disagree with this statement?
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Re: Letter 19

Postby ValiantArcher » Mar 12, 2012 8:36 am

1. I'd say that it only really makes sense in the context of God's love for us. Love is fundamentally opposed to our fallen nature, but it should flow out of our new nature. I'm not saying unbelievers can't love, of course, but I think it might be a pale reflection, coming out of the common grace God gives to all people. Maybe? ;)) Anyone else want to figure out a better way to say it?

2. Because Screwtape loves to see suffering and he'd love to have love twisted and leading toward selfish, not selfless, actions? ;)) A bit more seriously, I think love enacts itself in faithfulness, loyalty, selflessness and life, and "love" leading to infidelity, selfishness, and death is a horrible perversion of love.

3. Hmm, I'm not sure. I guess I would tentatively agree, though, as it is one of the things that could either drive us away from God or bring us closer. :)
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Re: Letter 19

Postby Pattertwigs Pal » May 02, 2012 5:53 pm

1. Screwtape makes the claim that Love is impossible and it doesn't make sense. We know that Love is indeed possible; however does it make sense? Why or why not?
It really doesn't make sense from a sort of intellectual standpoint - not in a fallen world. It is logical for an organism to only look out after itself. Although I suppose a bases of the idea is found in the animal world - mothers protecting their young. They face danger to protect others. On the other hand, love has been a common idea in different cultures. It has a place even in our fallen nature. Without God there wouldn't be love and we would be living in a world like Screwtape is.

2. In and earlier letter, Screwtape implied that small sins were better than larger sins, using the example that cards are better then murder if cards will work. Why, then, in this letter, does he hope that "prolonged, 'noble', romantic, tragic adulteries end in murders and suicides?
There is still a part of Screwtape that enjoys the really big sins. Also, a murder/suicide would be desirable because it really doesn't give the perpetrator much chance to seek forgiveness from God. I think sins involving "love" are easier for people to justify and/or not see as sins at all. In that case, they are a "safer" kind of big sin.

3. "Love is...from the point of view of the spiritual life, mainly raw material." Do you agree or disagree with this statement?

Love is such a hard topic to discuss because it can mean a lot of things. In its purest form love is naturally on God's side. However, I don't think it is often in its purest form. I do think that it is very easy for "love" to be used as a raw material. Love so easily can be turned to hate / lust. In that sense, it is a raw material.
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Re: Letter 19

Postby Eustace » Jul 07, 2012 11:06 pm

1. Screwtape makes the claim that Love is impossible and it doesn't make sense. We know that Love is indeed possible; however does it make sense? Why or why not?

Love does not make any sense. And I do not think it is suppose to. Love is giving when no one gives back and caring when no one cares back. It is hard for the demons to understand but I think it is just as hard for humans to understand. Humans can understand loving someone who loves you back, or is kind to you but they can not understand caring about someone who hates you, insults you or ruins your life. I think this is because God can truly only love like that, and with God's help Christians can love like that, but no human alone can do that.
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Re: Letter 19

Postby Ithilwen » Jul 25, 2012 10:04 pm

Meltintalle wrote:1. Screwtape makes the claim that Love is impossible and it doesn't make sense. We know that Love is indeed possible; however does it make sense? Why or why not?

I think love, by itself, does not make sense. But through Christ, it becomes something that makes sense. It all depends on what angle you're using to approach it. For example, if your only goal is to be a survivor, to look after yourself, it would make no sense to look after other people or help them when they can't help you in return. However, when we consider that we are loved by God and made in His image, and that it pleases Him if we love and help others, then it does make sense to do so.

2. In and earlier letter, Screwtape implied that small sins were better than larger sins, using the example that cards are better then murder if cards will work. Why, then, in this letter, does he hope that "prolonged, 'noble', romantic, tragic adulteries end in murders and suicides?

Because it all depends which method works best on the individual.

3. "Love is...from the point of view of the spiritual life, mainly raw material." Do you agree or disagree with this statement?

Not Love in its true definition. However, the concept of "love" can be looked at in such a way, because the concept is very broad. People use the word and abuse it to mean a multitude of different things. This could certainly cause the idea of love itself to look like "raw material", because it comes in so many forms and is used in so many ways.


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Re: Letter 19

Postby Movie Aristotle » Aug 03, 2012 1:40 pm

1. Screwtape makes the claim that Love is impossible and it doesn't make sense. We know that Love is indeed possible; however does it make sense? Why or why not?

Of course love makes sense. If Love is how we humans were intended to function, then it makes sense that we are only truly functioning when were are loving.

If you are asking the question, "Will love gain us anything material?" or "Will we always receive love back?" then a "yes" is not guaranteed. But that is not the point. If we were indeed created to love, then it is only by loving that we are truly making any sense at all. (And of course with the promise of Heaven comes rewards for obedience, including obeying the commandment to love. If you are the sort of person who seeks rewards, then loving makes sense in that regard as well.)

2. In and earlier letter, Screwtape implied that small sins were better than larger sins, using the example that cards are better then murder if cards will work. Why, then, in this letter, does he hope that "prolonged, 'noble', romantic, tragic adulteries end in murders and suicides?

I think that he was implying that small sins were better in the long run to keep a person from realizing the need for grace. If a person is to the point where he is capable of both murder and suicide, he probably is far-gone enough not to accept grace, in Screwtape's opinion.

3. "Love is...from the point of view of the spiritual life, mainly raw material." Do you agree or disagree with this statement?

I'd like to point out a misquote. It is subtle, but very important.

The Screwtape Letters wrote:In the meantime, get it quite clear in your own mind that this state of falling in love is not, in itself, necessarily favourable either to us or to the other side. It is simply an occasion which we and the Enemy are both trying to exploit. Like most of the other things which humans are excited about, such as health and sickness, age and youth, or war and peace, it is, from the point of view of the spiritual life, mainly raw material,
(Emphasis Lewis's.)

It is not Love which Screwtape thinks is neither good nor bad, but the state of falling in love that Screwtape is ambivalent about. I don't think this is splitting hairs because Screwtape has just spent two full letters describing his views on what he thinks love is and is not. Whatever his theories on the subject, he certainly believes that "Love" (or whatever is supposedly behind it) is dangerous to his side.

Being "in love" on the other hand is something different. To him it simply means being in a relationship with someone and having romantic feelings towards them. While in this state a human can be motivated to sin (infidelity, unchastity, lust, covetousness, etc.) or holiness (love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, self-control).
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