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What to do about "Lilliandil" the Star's Daughter?

PostPosted: Sep 12, 2017 10:32 am
by fantasia_kitty
We all know that the new production is going to be its own entity, but I'm wondering if they're still going to be influenced in a minor way from changes made in the previous film? The most notable is Ramandu's Daughter (or Lilliandil as she was so named in the VDT movie). At the end of the VDT book, there's a short mention of how she becomes Mrs. Caspian which the movie never touched on. Surprising, given how much Hollywood loves a romance.

Do you think The Silver Chair will need to provide a background story for the non-book-reading audience? Or do you think it's not important and she just needs to be a queen, wife to Caspian and mother to Rilian?

I know I personally found it more poignant that the serpent kills, not just a beloved Queen, but a Star's Daughter as well. I think maybe they could make a mention in the Parliament of Owls. But admittedly, it's not something that will make or break the storyline.

Re: What to do about "Lilliandil" the Star's Daughter?

PostPosted: Sep 12, 2017 12:31 pm
by Glumpuddle
All we really have to know is that she is the Queen and is dearly loved by her husband, son, and all Narnia. But I do agree that her background somehow makes her murder even more tragic.

I wonder if they could do something to make her seem more than human. LotR gave the elves a very very subtle glow.

Bottom line: If her death feels tragic and I really feel Narnia's complete despair, I won't complain.

Re: What to do about "Lilliandil" the Star's Daughter?

PostPosted: Sep 12, 2017 12:39 pm
by Eustace
I assume we also would be getting a different actress if they show her back story at all. I would like them to show her to the audience at the very least because she is one of the few cannon romances of Narnia.

But, I guess it would not make or break the story as a whole. But, maybe we can see pictures of Caspian and his wife in pictures around the palace or something before Jill and Eustace leave. I think that would be a cute Easter Egg for fans, just as the drawings on Aslan's How walls were real cool.

Re: What to do about "Lilliandil" the Star's Daughter?

PostPosted: Sep 12, 2017 12:47 pm
by narnia fan 7
I don't think knowing her heritage is really necessary for the story. But it's also not the kind of thing they would have to go out of their way to include. Just a line about her being the daughter of a star would probably work fine.

Eustace wrote: But, maybe we can see pictures of Caspian and his wife in pictures around the palace or something before Jill and Eustace leave.

I like that idea. Could be a great way to do the backstory without flashbacks. Though ideally I think I would prefer to actually see her death.

Re: What to do about "Lilliandil" the Star's Daughter?

PostPosted: Sep 12, 2017 1:08 pm
by Skilletdude
A focus on her backstory may not be warranted or even possible within the story plot. Too much of it and it's just a needless distraction. However, I wouldn't mind hearing something of her from Rilian after the enchantment has been broken. Like others have said, just a passing reference would do. Maybe it would be in his grief losing so many years of his life to someone who murdered his mother, a 'Daughter of the Stars'. It depends if the filmmakers want to include obscure details from the books that might puzzle the broad audience. I, for one, hope they do!

And I'm more curious to see how far Johnston's statement goes that he wants to do his own thing for this film. Does that mean not bothering with the name Liliandil? I kind of hope so.

Re: What to do about "Lilliandil" the Star's Daughter?

PostPosted: Sep 12, 2017 1:13 pm
by Glumpuddle
Skilletdude wrote:A focus on her backstory may not be warranted or even possible within the story plot. Too much of it and it's just a needless distraction.


I'm realizing more and more how easily SC could get bogged down in backstory. They definitely need to watch that. But, that said...

One of the things that really hurt the Walden movies, imo, was that they were quick to throw out things that didn't directly advance the plot. Like the romp with Bacchus and Silenus. Or basically the entire last third of VDT. In effect, they systematically filtered out much of what defines the series: Atmosphere and joy. Take all that out and all that remains is a generic fantasy adventure.

Re: What to do about "Lilliandil" the Star's Daughter?

PostPosted: Sep 12, 2017 1:29 pm
by The Rose-Tree Dryad
It will probably depend on how they approach telling Rilian's story, I'm thinking. If they do a Prince Caspian-style beginning, showing what happened with the ruling family in Narnia before heading to England to catch up with Jill, for instance, then I can imagine them having the space to hint at her background in some way. Maybe have her holding young Rilian on a Cair Paravel balcony under a night sky, talking about Rilian's grandfather looking down in the heavens above. (It would be kind of neat to "trick" the audience into thinking that her father is dead, until revealing somehow that he is a Star and she is a Star's daughter.)

In a way, it might be nice to have a scene like that with Rilian and his mother, to show the tender connection between them and give some depth to the son's grief after her murder.

Glumpuddle wrote:I wonder if they could do something to make her seem more than human. LotR gave the elves a very very subtle glow.


I like that idea. Obviously nothing like what they did in VDT, but something to suggest an inner light, or an unusual clarity in her eyes. Ramandu's Daughter has always had an aura of holiness about her, and definitely similar to the elves in LotR in that respect.

Skilletdude wrote:And I'm more curious to see how far Johnston's statement goes that he wants to do his own thing for this film. Does that mean not bothering with the name Liliandil? I kind of hope so.


I hope so, too; I never really liked the name much, and I like the fact that she is simply the Queen in SC. Her lack of a name adds to the mythic, "fable"-like quality that David Magee mentioned in his interview on the Talking Beasts podcast.

Re: What to do about "Lilliandil" the Star's Daughter?

PostPosted: Sep 12, 2017 2:36 pm
by Glumpuddle
And I'm more curious to see how far Johnston's statement goes that he wants to do his own thing for this film. Does that mean not bothering with the name Liliandil?


Was the name ever spoken in the film?

I'm completely in favor of pretending the VDT film never happened. I already do that in my personal life. ;)

Re: What to do about "Lilliandil" the Star's Daughter?

PostPosted: Sep 12, 2017 2:58 pm
by Skilletdude
Yes, she introduces herself by name in the film. Granted, it was probably the least concerning addition in VODT (after all, it's VODT!), but still an unnecessary one.

Re: What to do about "Lilliandil" the Star's Daughter?

PostPosted: Sep 12, 2017 11:41 pm
by waggawerewolf27
Skilletdude wrote:Yes, she introduces herself by name in the film. Granted, it was probably the least concerning addition in VODT (after all, it's VODT!), but still an unnecessary one.


It doesn't mean that Liliandil has to be her name once she becomes Queen. In line with the practice of making most titles patronymic, a Queen Consort, whatever her antecedents, is only so because of her husband. Duchesses and Princesses have often been called by their husband's first name rather than by their own, especially when commoners in the first place. Was it a competition that gave Ramandu's daughter that particular name? And if so, what happened to the competition to give a name to LOTGK?

I could be quite happy with Lilian, Liliane, Liliana or even just plain Lily, maybe as an endearment. Liliandil suggests that someone known for her sage-ness was anything but wise. Or that VDT the film was on a LOTR jag. But I doubt the present filmmakers of Silver Chair have the thyme to worry about it overmuch. The Queen, or Caspian's Queen or Rilian's mother sounds quite adequate to me.

Much of the back story is about the impact of her death, one way or another, to cause Caspian extreme grief and also the disappearance of their son, Rilian. We need to concentrate on the consequences rather than on the romantic bit, even if it is a starting point.

Re: What to do about "Lilliandil" the Star's Daughter?

PostPosted: Sep 23, 2017 5:49 am
by Stylteralmaldo
The 'star' bloodline should be hinted at and not elaborated upon. It ought to be subtle enough to satisfy those who appreciate the history of Narnia and have a good knowledge of Narnia through the stories yet not too detailed so as to confuse the casual viewer.

It's an important detail that should be addressed in some form in my opinion and not glossed over as if it doesn't matter at all.