Order of the Rest of the Movies

Talk about any aspect of the films.

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Re: Order of the Rest of the Movies

Postby The Rose-Tree Dryad » Apr 08, 2017 1:40 pm

Anfinwen wrote:If the Pevinsies are recast, HHB has to come before LB. If SC really is rebooting the series with all new faces, then audiences really need a reminder of who the Pevinsies are, and why they all of a sudden appear in LB when they weren't in any of the other remaining books (except HHB). HHB would be a great way to remind the audience of the backstory of Narnia without remaking LWW. The book even mentions Lucy telling the tale of the wardrobe to the guests at Anvard (this could be expanded a little). The white witch and the long winter are mentioned, and Mr Tumnus is another returning character.


Those are great points! I was thinking the other day about how much power a familiar face can have... the Pevensies in LB needed to be familiar faces, IMO, even if that just means that they are new actors that we've met previously in HHB. I can also imagine some sort of opening sequence in HHB that gives the audience the run-down of what's going on in Narnia at the time the story is set, maybe including some extra imagery that's evocative of LWW. (Maybe baby Cor is kidnapped during an Archenlander celebration to honor the new monarchy in Narnia, since the birth of the twins seems to be about the same time as when the Pevensies began to rule?)

I'm also quite convinced that LB must at least be the last film, whether HHB or MN comes next or not. SC, HHB and MN should all be fairly easy to adapt to film, but LB is something of a headache and will probably require an artistic, visionary approach. That sort of thing can be hit and miss in terms of box office success. It's also likely to be less popular than the other films because it's a bit more theologically heavy. I think mainstream audiences are going to have a harder time knowing what to do with that story, even if fans are extremely pleased with the film adaptation.

It seems to be Douglas Gresham's dream to see all of the books made into film and since they won't want to risk going with a film that might not be a box office success before all the others are made, I'm pretty sure they should wait and release LB last. That may cause difficulties with the aging of the children who play Eustace and Jill, but hopefully that can be avoided with careful casting and avoiding unnecessary delays with filming. (Of course, SC needs to be a financial success to begin with!)

waggawerewolf27 wrote:It is not only Pevensies that are a problem in continuity. What about the Professor? Jim Broadbent, who played a number of roles in other movies, including Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince, played him in LWW, but the Professor only appears in a couple of the other books. Would he still be up to playing a sizeable role as the Professor in LB, if and when it is filmed, given the lengthy break between movies so far?


One possible way to solve this problem is to go ahead and shoot the LB scenes in England as soon as possible after filming HHB (which may be another reason to make HHB next). Then, in the Aslan's Country scenes in LB, the actors that played young Digory and Polly can reprise their roles there if Jim Broadbent and the actress who played elderly Polly aren't up for further filming. I would expect their younger selves to make at least some appearance in LB anyway, but I don't know if the director would take an artsy approach and have them revert back and forth from youthful to old, depending on the scene, once in Aslan's Country.
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Re: Order of the Rest of the Movies

Postby waggawerewolf27 » Apr 09, 2017 7:44 pm

Rose-tree Dryad wrote:...but LB is something of a headache and will probably require an artistic, visionary approach. That sort of thing can be hit and miss in terms of box office success. It's also likely to be less popular than the other films because it's a bit more theologically heavy.


It isn't only the difficulty of portraying it which would make LB hard to make. Very likely LB will be the least popular of the rest of the series, if only because of the darkness it portrays. All the other stories, even VDT, end up with "mission accomplished", even if they don't always end in unalloyed triumph.

MN's Digory gets to bring healing to his mother, Polly and he remain friends for life, and Narnia lives happily ever after under the protection of the apple tree by the end of the book. We only see Polly as Digory's childhood friend, in MN, even though we may also see Digory as an older man, in connection with the Wardrobe and the Pevensies. And it isn't until LB that we see both Digory and Polly as adults in any sizeable role. Except for LWW, the Professor plays no other role in any other of the books apart from a mention he was tutoring Peter in VDT. Unfortunately, it might be as well to not only cast Digory as a child but also to recast the Professor as an older man, because there are so many of Jim Broadbent's acting generation who have been dying lately, that it might not be worthwhile to expect him to come back as the Professor.

SC sees Jill and Eustace bring back Rilian just in time to meet the dying King Caspian X, and then Experiment House is put to rights for them. Yes an elderly Professor could appear in the party at the end of SC, and SC and LB would make a good continuation, because of Jill and Eustace. But so does MN and LB, despite Jadis, the Wardrobe and the Professor.

There are clues in SC the book that HHB would be the next book published, such as the songs Rilian and the Minstrel at the Cair Paravel banquet sing. Susan might well fit into the SC fancy dress party at the end, and people in fancy dress at a party don't have to look particularly like past characters. But if HHB is done next, how would it lead on to a filming of MN? I do agree that LB should be done last.

For LB is catastrophic right up to the Battle of Stable Hill. Nothing goes right, everything goes wrong, and Narnia is doomed. Tirian is commended for standing firm at the last battle, but it was a defeat, nonetheless. Some in the audience like stories best when the hero is seen to have won the day, even if he dies in the effort. And most film studios tend to prefer winning films, not ones that end tragically in defeat.
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Re: Order of the Rest of the Movies

Postby Anfinwen » Apr 10, 2017 11:35 am

waggawerewolf27 wrote:But if HHB is done next, how would it lead on to a filming of MN? I do agree that LB should be done last.


That's a good point. I would be more open to HHB coming last than I would about MN coming last. However, if LB isn't a success, it could end up never being made (and its my favorite book :-s ). One way would be to have hints about the origins of Narnia in HHB. For example, Shasta could ask Bre about Archenland, and he could mention that the king is a descendent of the first king and queen of Narnia. Also, MN doesn't need a big lead up. It can be advertised as the birth of Narnia and be accepted as a prequel. HHB is also a sort of prequel, so the two are sort of similar.

Something to consider, as dedicated Narnia fans, we know LB is coming, and we see the problems in how the movies should be ordered. For the casual viewer who may not be aware of the plot or returning characters of LB, its will seem very normal to have prequels after SC (if it is successful). The surprise will be "What? There's another final book that ties all of these together and has Jill and Eustace again?!" Many series don't have a final decisive end, they just fizzle out, so Narnia is quite different.
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Re: Order of the Rest of the Movies

Postby The Rose-Tree Dryad » Apr 17, 2017 2:26 pm

One thought that crossed my mind today... they may want to go with MN next because of the "controversies" connected with HHB. In MN, there isn't really anything in the story for people to get up in arms about, but HHB is going to be more challenging because of Calormen and its culture. Boycotting is kind of a "thing" and it's not uncommon these days to see huge companies make large errors in judgment, even when trying their best to please everyone. The last thing that the franchise needs is to get bogged down by controversy just when it's trying to get back on its feet. If they make MN after SC, its presumed success will give the franchise more of a foothold on the market and hopefully they'll be able to ride out any potential issues with HHB, if they're not able to sidestep them altogether.

So what I suspect the filmmakers will go for is MN --> HHB --> LB. The aging of child actors notwithstanding, that seems like the safest route to take. That said... there's also the old adage of there being no such thing as bad publicity, so who knows. :P
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Re: Order of the Rest of the Movies

Postby waggawerewolf27 » Apr 19, 2017 4:31 am

Rose-tree Dryad wrote:In MN, there isn't really anything in the story for people to get up in arms about, but HHB is going to be more challenging because of Calormen and its culture. Boycotting is kind of a "thing"


Yes, boycotting often depends on which "groupthink" a particular would-be audience belongs to. And which prejudice the "group" endorse or say they oppose. Personally I am against banning literature unless it is absolutely necessary. There is always the curiosity factor, you see, especially when aroused by a lot of adverse publicity. Remember the furore about Salman Rushdie? One of my workmates made a point of reading The Satanic Verses as a consequence of Iran's fatwa against the book, but found it a tiresomely boring and confusing book, especially as it wasn't part of her culture or belief system. If the Iranians hadn't banned the book she wouldn't have bothered to even look at it twice, even for light entertainment.

I'm not so sure that MN hasn't got anything to get up in arms about, because if it isn't alleged Calormen culture that is on the nose, it may be the depiction of a creation, any creation, which annoys people. Just as viewers may not recognise their own disguised culture taken to the nth degree in Calormen, others may not recognise that however a creation may come about, in one day, in seven days, seven years, centuries or in billions of years, it is in God's good time, not ours. Frankly I agree that MN may well be done next, if only because Walden wanted it to be the next one, having, it seems, looked up the sales statistics. We only know that Silver Chair is definitely to be next - this time.

So let us say that the order of the remaining films is to be MN --> HHB --> LB.

The plus factor is that MN is relatively uncontroversial, as you say, Rose, and, according to Walden, is a more popular book than the remaining two books. Another plus is that MN also explains the Jadis backstory and that of the Wardrobe, lamp post etc. And then there is the lead up at the end to LWW and the Pevensies. If HHB is discardable, there is also the ongoing story of the rings which feature in both MN and LB.

The minus factor is that if MN is next after SC, there is a distinct break between between SC and LB, which both cast Jill and Eustace as main characters. This break will be even longer if HHB is included. But if HHB is omitted as the second-last movie, then what explanation do we have for Calormen and its voracious empire-building, or why it took so long to invade Narnia successfully, anyway?

So these are the possibilities:

1. MN --> HHB --> LB.

2. MN --> LB --> HHB.

3. HHB --> MN --> LB

4. LB --> MN --> HHB

5. LB --> HHB --> MN

What are the pluses and minuses for each alternative?
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Re: Order of the Rest of the Movies

Postby Anfinwen » Apr 20, 2017 6:51 am

waggawerewolf27 wrote:Another plus is that MN also explains the Jadis backstory and that of the Wardrobe, lamp post etc. And then there is the lead up at the end to LWW and the Pevensies

I hadn't thought of that! MN really could be the best movie to make next since it does the backstory and would help establish the history of Narnia for this new reboot. If I were to try to guess what the filmmakers will actually do, Id say
waggawerewolf27 wrote:2. MN --> LB --> HHB.

MN establishes the backstory and leads really well into LB. They will probably view HHB as expendable, or save it to make a few more bucks if the rest do well. At this point, my only hope to see HHB is if all three remaining books are major hits. :( I really hope they don't do HHB last, though. If LB comes before it, I'm afraid it will really dampen the story. People will be watching it thinking "yeah, I've seen the last one, and the Calormens win in the end."
Obviously my preferred order is
waggawerewolf27 wrote:3. HHB --> MN --> LB
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Re: Order of the Rest of the Movies

Postby waggawerewolf27 » Apr 25, 2017 5:17 pm

Actually, with so much sabre-rattling going on due north of us, I really wish that Silver Chair would hurry up and get underway, and am a little sorry that MN wasn't done after VDT, after all. In the time wasted since 2011, it very well could have been produced.

It seems that MN, and the warning that is Jadis, is something the world needs to see and hear, don't you think? :(

I'm not too sure that the remaining two books would ever be done, much as I would love to see HHB in movie form.
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Re: Order of the Rest of the Movies

Postby coracle » Apr 25, 2017 8:59 pm

We do need them all of course! LB has to be the final one.
This leaves only two options:MN-HHB-LB or HHB-MN-LB.
I'm sitting thinking carefully about this.... and my preference today is MN before HHB
This shows how the evil entered at the start of Narnia, accounting for a number of problems encountered in that world during the stories.
It explains how the Professor seemed to understand about Narnia, and where the wardrobe came from.
It introduces Calormenes only one movie ahead of LB, so audiences will know who/what they are. It is not really feasible to film HHB first, because the Calormenes don't feature in MN, which makes their turning up again in LB oddly unconnected (if there is a 2-3 year gap).
It allows a gap between MN and LB, two spiritually significant stories. (some people find them too strong)

Flashback frames:

MN can easily be told within a 'frame' of the Seven Friends of Narnia getting together soon after SC. Jill could be meeting the others for the first time, and asks Lucy if she was the first person to go to Narnia. Lucy asks the Professor and Polly to tell how they went to Narnia as children. All four Pevensies need to be there, and the Professor needs to look like Jim Broadbent!

HHB could then be told within a frame at another gathering, and conversation introduces the story... [maybe Susan is absent at a wedding or engagement party, Lucy and Ed sigh over her lack of interest, Peter remembers how she nearly got engaged herself to a Calormene]. HHB is set at the end of the Pevensies' reign, and is not connected to MN, so it needs to be framed in or introduced in some way by the characters we have recently seen.
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Re: Order of the Rest of the Movies

Postby waggawerewolf27 » Apr 26, 2017 5:26 pm

I do like the idea of putting both MN and HHB into the context of Seven Friends of Narnia meetings, because it does the double purpose of not only keeping those Seven Friends of Narnia within view throughout the series, where they might not otherwise appear, but also of leading up to the finale in LB, where they interact more. And I can see how Susan might appear at the end of Silver Chair at that fancy dress party, where Jill wears the outfit she wore when she returned from Narnia. I could just see in my head how Eustace might wear a dragon outfit for the occasion. :ymdevil: However, the SC script seems to have been written already, so it might not feature at all.

MN can easily be told within a 'frame' of the Seven Friends of Narnia getting together soon after SC. Jill could be meeting the others for the first time, and asks Lucy if she was the first person to go to Narnia. Lucy asks the Professor and Polly to tell how they went to Narnia as children. All four Pevensies need to be there, and the Professor needs to look like Jim Broadbent!


Could that end-of-SC party, since it wasn't spelled out in detail, begin a MN film, do you think, in just the concept you mention? A coming home party for Susan, which would oblige her to be there, and to meet both Eustace and Jill?

I do get what you are saying about stopping that awkward break between HHB and LB where people tend to forget what the Calormene connection is between the two stories. We do have to keep Susan in the picture until HHB, at least, since whoever plays her, actually has a part to play in that story, even though it is only one scene, where Edmund brings into their quarters Shasta instead of Corin.

I do like the idea of not having her at any meetings in HHB, if done your way, due to her being at some engagement or another, however. It not only gives Edmund a chance to retell the story, with some help from Lucy, who at least met both Shasta and Aravis, unlike Susan, herself, but would put into a definite context those remarks made in LB about her, since we know by then that Aunt Polly, Jill and Eustace have actually met her in real time, at least once.

I'd also like the idea of Jill and Eustace being the ones to ask questions at such meetings as well as Lucy, Peter and Edmund.

Such meetings could be the sort of thing that is played at the beginning of a film as the credits go up, or at the end, after the film has officially finished.
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