The Last Battle

Talk about any aspect of the films.

Moderator: daughter of the King

Re: The Last Battle

Postby waggawerewolf27 » Jul 03, 2014 5:22 pm

That is a good point. I do want to see Horse and his Boy. And it was heartening to see that Tilda Swinton would still be interested in playing Jadis in London. Trouble is, Magician's Nephew won't even be considered yet, since Silver Chair is still being scripted, and so it will be a long way down the tracks for either HHB or LB.
User avatar
waggawerewolf27
NarniaWeb Zealot
 
Posts: 7078
Joined: Sep 25, 2009
Location: Oz
Gender: Female

Re: The Last Battle

Postby PhelanVelvel » Jul 05, 2014 4:56 pm

I think we'll get all our films, guys. I think Douglas Gresham wants to see it happen too. A bit ironic that VDT came out as badly as it did, but I have high hopes for the rest of the series. I really liked LWW and PC, so if they were as good as those I'd be pretty content, though we always want to raise the bar.
User avatar
PhelanVelvel
NarniaWeb Nut
 
Posts: 178
Joined: Jan 28, 2013
Gender: Female

Re: The Last Battle

Postby The Rose-Tree Dryad » Jul 14, 2014 11:06 pm

One random thought I had recently... do you think that, if they adapt The Last Battle into film, they filmmakers will try to find a way to include people like the Pevensies, Shasta and Aravis, et cetera in more scenes? The Pevensies have enjoyed a fair amount of popularity, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if audiences fall in love with the characters of Shasta and Aravis as well. The filmmakers may want to expand their presence in LB for that reason.

I can potentially imagine Aslan sending them out into the darkness to be a guide to lead the people and creatures to the Door—Peter to the North, Lucy to the sea, Edmund to the Western Wood, Shasta to Archenland, Aravis to Tashbaan, and so on. I don't know, though, that seems kind of weird and I'm having a hard time picturing what it would look like visually.

One thing that I really don't think I would like at all for them to all be sent down to Narnia so they can participate in one last massive battle to end all battles and take vengeance on the Calormenes. No, please. [-(
—The Rose-Tree Dryad, a.k.a. Rose @};-
Image
NW sister to Melian_Maia, lover of narnia, Elanor and juzuma loves lucy + NW twin to MissRosario
User avatar
The Rose-Tree Dryad
Moderator
 
Posts: 3805
Joined: Aug 21, 2010
Location: A secret garden
Gender: Female

Re: The Last Battle

Postby aileth » Jul 15, 2014 10:09 am

The Rose-Tree Dryad wrote:One thing that I really don't think I would like at all for them to all be sent down to Narnia so they can participate in one last massive battle to end all battles and take vengeance on the Calormenes. No, please. [-(


Well now, don't you think that would be exciting and Hollywood-esque? I quite agree, it would be rather dreadful. Don't mention it, don't mention it!

I would definitely like to see more of the Pevensies (same in HHB, but that's a different subject). Do you think they will show more of the scenes in England? Partly to eliminate the necessity for Eustace and Jill's narration of events and partly to demonstrate what was going on with Susan, depending on what they decide to do with her.

My creativity is not good enough to figure out how else they could appear. After all, they weren't allowed to go back to Narnia. Not that that means anything to the film makers :)

Nor can I imagine how they would shoehorn Cor and Aravis in there. Oh no! What if they truncated the timeline and had the Tisroc and Rabadash attacking Narnia? They would have to drop Tirian and all that, but worse things have been done in the name of making a "good" movie. Perish the thought!
Now my days are swifter than a post: they flee away ... my days are swifter than a weaver's shuttle
User avatar
aileth
NarniaWeb Junkie
Peripatetic powder-room sub
 
Posts: 570
Joined: Jan 02, 2014
Location: Western Canada
Gender: Female

Re: The Last Battle

Postby The Rose-Tree Dryad » Jul 15, 2014 11:46 am

aileth wrote:I would definitely like to see more of the Pevensies (same in HHB, but that's a different subject). Do you think they will show more of the scenes in England? Partly to eliminate the necessity for Eustace and Jill's narration of events and partly to demonstrate what was going on with Susan, depending on what they decide to do with her.


I'd like to see that as well! I wouldn't even mind the movie starting out in England, showing the Friends of Narnia getting together and bemoaning Susan's disinterest before finding a way to smoothly transition to Narnia. Also, hardly any time passes for Tirian after he calls out for help, has the vision of England, and then the arrival of Jill, but quite a bit of time goes by for the Friends of Narnia. I could imagine that when Tirian appears as a ghost-like image in England, the perspective switches over to that of the Friends of Narnia and follows them until the train wreck.

aileth wrote:Nor can I imagine how they would shoehorn Cor and Aravis in there. Oh no! What if they truncated the timeline and had the Tisroc and Rabadash attacking Narnia? They would have to drop Tirian and all that, but worse things have been done in the name of making a "good" movie. Perish the thought!


Ohhh my goodness, that would be absolutely insane. :-o I have considered how the filmmakers might try to finagle it so Shasta and Aravis are still alive during The Last Battle and are able to participate in the events of that story, and the whole thing would just be a mangled mess. They would probably have to cut out the Pevensies from HHB altogether and then have the events of the film happen right before the events of The Last Battle. No. Just no. Shasta and Aravis are great characters, but it would senselessly butcher the story. [-(
—The Rose-Tree Dryad, a.k.a. Rose @};-
Image
NW sister to Melian_Maia, lover of narnia, Elanor and juzuma loves lucy + NW twin to MissRosario
User avatar
The Rose-Tree Dryad
Moderator
 
Posts: 3805
Joined: Aug 21, 2010
Location: A secret garden
Gender: Female

Re: The Last Battle

Postby aileth » Jul 20, 2014 11:44 pm

That passage of time/next to no time at all might be quite difficult to show. I suppose they could throw in an explanatory line (as, for instance, in the book :) ) but I was wondering how they would show the events that are happening simultaneously. Without giving stuff away, that is. The train wreck, what occurs in the stable while the five friends are waiting.

Which brings up another question--how long did they seem to be waiting for Jill and Eustace to join them? But that is slightly off topic :)
Now my days are swifter than a post: they flee away ... my days are swifter than a weaver's shuttle
User avatar
aileth
NarniaWeb Junkie
Peripatetic powder-room sub
 
Posts: 570
Joined: Jan 02, 2014
Location: Western Canada
Gender: Female

Re: The Last Battle

Postby jewel » Jul 25, 2014 5:49 pm

Not to mention one great bloody battle.
User avatar
jewel
NarniaWeb Nut
 
Posts: 136
Joined: Apr 21, 2013
Location: knoxville
Gender: Male

Re: The Last Battle

Postby truthherald2011 » Jul 25, 2014 7:19 pm

Yes, The Last Battle definitely would stand out in the series. While Prince Caspian is sometimes deemed the "darkest" as far as violent content goes, no one is seriously injured/ killed----of the main, good characters, that is. The Last Battle would definitely be different in rating and tone. Still, it is one of the best of Lewis' stories in depth and complexity. In my opinion, it would appeal to all ages.
User avatar
truthherald2011
NarniaWeb Newbie
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Aug 09, 2013
Gender: Female

Re: The Last Battle

Postby aileth » Jul 25, 2014 9:55 pm

If it weren't for the second part of the book, LB would really be a miserable book (I like happy endings). When they come to show it as a movie, I hope they will be able to express the joy equally well. There's a great deal of puzzlement (pun not intended :) ) as they try to figure things out, but the joy is certainly the most poignant part.
Now my days are swifter than a post: they flee away ... my days are swifter than a weaver's shuttle
User avatar
aileth
NarniaWeb Junkie
Peripatetic powder-room sub
 
Posts: 570
Joined: Jan 02, 2014
Location: Western Canada
Gender: Female

Re: The Last Battle

Postby waggawerewolf27 » Jul 26, 2014 4:25 am

aileth wrote:That passage of time/next to no time at all might be quite difficult to show. I suppose they could throw in an explanatory line (as, for instance, in the book ) but I was wondering how they would show the events that are happening simultaneously.


However, there is a bit in Last Battle where Eustace and Jill are discussing what happens if they die as they prepare to face the battle to come. Eustace does surmise there might have been a real accident in the real world. I think they should leave that line in, as a very real explanation.

I've thought of a way it could be done. We don't see any of the people of our world until we get to the part where Tirian is tied up against a tree. He is transported somehow to this room where he sees the 7 friends of Narnia. The scene then changes to the preparations and plans they make, and goes on to where they put their plans in action. They are to meet at a railway station. But as they do, there is an almighty bang.

We next see Tirian waking up to be confronted by Jill and Eustace who have materialised out of thin air. They get acquainted and the rest of the action takes place. As Jill, Tirian, Eustace and friends line up, ready to wage war, we should get some crossovers to show the remaining five friends of Narnia seeing some of the action from their point of view, maybe even discussing how they got where they are, and wondering what happened to Jill and Eustace. There will be returns to the battle, of course. In particular, we have to remember we are seeing everything mainly from Tirian's point of view.

That is how the book goes also. Maybe split screens could be used sometimes? Would anyone have some other ideas that might work better?
User avatar
waggawerewolf27
NarniaWeb Zealot
 
Posts: 7078
Joined: Sep 25, 2009
Location: Oz
Gender: Female

Re: The Last Battle

Postby jewel » Jul 26, 2014 10:55 am

aileth wrote:If it weren't for the second part of the book, LB would really be a miserable book (I like happy endings). When they come to show it as a movie, I hope they will be able to express the joy equally well. There's a great deal of puzzlement (pun not intended :) ) as they try to figure things out, but the joy is certainly the most poignant part.

How is that? It's a masterpiece. LB concludes the entire series. The story ends with pure beauty.
User avatar
jewel
NarniaWeb Nut
 
Posts: 136
Joined: Apr 21, 2013
Location: knoxville
Gender: Male

Re: The Last Battle

Postby PhelanVelvel » Jul 28, 2014 8:19 pm

I'm more than fine with them expanding the roles of the Pevensies and other characters from throughout the series. I felt that the part of the book in "the real Narnia" was far too rushed, as I've stated on this thread previously. In the book, it came across as though Tumnus, Puddleglum, Aravis, Cor, etc. were just legends or archetypes rather than people who had once been vulnerable and unsure of themselves. It felt too glossy and seamless to be a real reunion.

I like the depiction of Caspian in Aslan's country at the end of Silver Chair better than the overdose of pomp and regality we get at the end of The Last Battle. I don't see why the "false" Narnia having ended requires such a drastic change in tone. Going to Aslan's country is going to Aslan's country. The sight of Caspian going home was much more believable when contrasted with the glitter and halos I feel bombarded with in the finale of the series. I know a finale should be pretty exuberant, but it is going to be "and then they all died and went to heaven, the end!" if they translate it directly from the book.

I'm still having the same issues with visualising the end of The Last Battle in cinematic format. I mean, I have a hard time even visualising it for my brain in a palatable manner...
User avatar
PhelanVelvel
NarniaWeb Nut
 
Posts: 178
Joined: Jan 28, 2013
Gender: Female

Re: The Last Battle

Postby The Rose-Tree Dryad » Jul 29, 2014 12:10 am

aileth wrote:That passage of time/next to no time at all might be quite difficult to show. I suppose they could throw in an explanatory line (as, for instance, in the book :) ) but I was wondering how they would show the events that are happening simultaneously. Without giving stuff away, that is. The train wreck, what occurs in the stable while the five friends are waiting.


I wonder... could the filmmakers possibly show what happens with the other Friends in Narnia (and Emeth, et cetera) in Aslan's Country without giving away the fact that it's not the old Narnia? It could seem like they're just in some part of Narnia that's away from the fighting. It might also give Aslan's Country more screen time and allow the filmmakers to slowly build on the idea of what it is and how it works. It would allow for more foreshadowing and be a gradual reveal; more evocative of when you slowly begin to realize something. It will also be more of a shock/twist when we find out that the Friends of Narnia, apart from Jill and Eustace, have technically been dead since the train accident near the beginning of the film even though they've seemed perfectly fine.

Of course, you would not want to spoil the surprise of Tirian going through the door. That would be a bad idea. So you'd have to be careful with how you go about it and keep the audience sufficiently in the dark. Like I've said before, I don't envy whoever scripts LB. It's going to be a real challenge. :-?

Another problem with this would be if their ages are different. (Mostly in regards to Digory and Polly.) Even though the Pevensies magically grew young again when going back through the wardrobe, it would seem kind of odd if Polly and Digory were suddenly returned to their youth as soon as they came back to Narnia. Or maybe it could work; I don't know, I'll have to think about it. (It would be neat to bring back the actors that they use for young Digory and young Polly in the MN film adaptation.) Anyway, even if it didn't work, I suppose that could be tweaked. Maybe they'd grow youthful again after tasting of the fruit?

A lot of random, late-night thoughts here. Not sure if they're any good. ;))

PhelanVelvel wrote:I like the depiction of Caspian in Aslan's country at the end of Silver Chair better than the overdose of pomp and regality we get at the end of The Last Battle. I don't see why the "false" Narnia having ended requires such a drastic change in tone. Going to Aslan's country is going to Aslan's country. The sight of Caspian going home was much more believable when contrasted with the glitter and halos I feel bombarded with in the finale of the series.


That's one thing that's a bit odd, now that I think about it... when old Caspian is lying on the bed of the stream, Eustace has to pierce Aslan's paw and the blood has to splash into the stream before Caspian grows young again and wakes up. I kind of got the impression that Aslan did this with everyone, but we don't get any indication of this happening when Tirian or the Friends of Narnia found themselves in Aslan's Country after having died in the Shadowlands. I guess it's possible that it was just something that Eustace and Jill needed to see?

I see what you mean about the last chapters in The Last Battle seeming a little more formal than the last chapters in The Silver Chair, though that may have had more to do with the fact that the series was drawing to a close than it did with the actual atmosphere of Aslan's Country. Lewis does tell us that at the reunion in the garden, they were reviving old jokes, so it can't have been too solemn.
—The Rose-Tree Dryad, a.k.a. Rose @};-
Image
NW sister to Melian_Maia, lover of narnia, Elanor and juzuma loves lucy + NW twin to MissRosario
User avatar
The Rose-Tree Dryad
Moderator
 
Posts: 3805
Joined: Aug 21, 2010
Location: A secret garden
Gender: Female

Re: The Last Battle

Postby waggawerewolf27 » Jul 29, 2014 3:20 am

Rose-tree Dryad wrote:I wonder... could the filmmakers possibly show what happens with the other Friends in Narnia (and Emeth, et cetera) in Aslan's Country without giving away the fact that it's not the old Narnia?


The best I can think of is to have the dinner, the ghostly appearances, the subsequent plans and the rendezvous where they were supposed to meet. Then the bang when the train crashes, then a scene of the 5 Friends of Narnia finding themselves in a meadow. They walk around for a while, sit down on the grass etc. They ask after everyone's health but someone says "Where's Jill and Eustace?" Someone else remarks the plan was that Jill and Eustace were supposed to go to Narnia. "But", says Peter, "I had the rings a minute ago. How did Eustace and Jill get them?"

Then the film reverts to show Tirian tied up to a tree. That is the way the book goes.

Aileth wrote:Which brings up another question--how long did they seem to be waiting for Jill and Eustace to join them? But that is slightly off topic


We are trying to get Last Battle into something filmable in this thread. But I do agree it looks like a big ask. To follow my idea of the others finding themselves in a meadow, it might very well be the sort of meadow you might find at the top of Aslan's Country, or maybe in the Wood between the Worlds. One that seems independent of time in which a lot happens in no time at all. Or nothing happens while whole ages go by in the real world.

The trick is not to spend much time on this scene. Maybe a brief moment later on, when someone says "Look! A door, like that one we saw in Cair Paravel!" And someone else notes there are fruit trees nearby.
User avatar
waggawerewolf27
NarniaWeb Zealot
 
Posts: 7078
Joined: Sep 25, 2009
Location: Oz
Gender: Female

Re: The Last Battle

Postby aileth » Jul 29, 2014 8:32 am

Absolutely, jewel, it is a masterpiece. But it feels like a tragedy, knowing that they are fighting hopelessly. If it weren't for the second part...

I hadn't thought to compare the end of SC with Aslan's Country in LB, Phelan, but if the film makers can capture that feel, they will be doing a good job. I fear that we won't be completely satisfied with it, no matter how well they do; that remains to be seen.

I like your ideas, wagga and Rosie. Nor does it need to take half the movie--a couple of short clips showing them wandering about ought to be sufficient, at least until the action starts.

Remember the complaints about PC, how Lucy went off for this little talk with Aslan, and sat with him while her brothers and sister were probably dying. Several people mentioned that they felt that it jarred on them. And here we have the Pevensies in this peaceful setting, while just on the other side of the door, the final desperate battle of Narnia is being fought.

And yet, this shift in tone might be the only way that it can be done effectively. I would think they could leave out Peter looking through the keyhole, though--might it not give too much away?

Rosie wrote:That's one thing that's a bit odd, now that I think about it... when old Caspian is lying on the bed of the stream, Eustace has to pierce Aslan's paw and the blood has to splash into the stream before Caspian grows young again and wakes up. I kind of got the impression that Aslan did this with everyone, but we don't get any indication of this happening when Tirian or the Friends of Narnia found themselves in Aslan's Country after having died in the Shadowlands. I guess it's possible that it was just something that Eustace and Jill needed to see?

In the book we aren't really there for the whole thing; we only hear about it from them afterward. Who knows what went on while they were off-stage?
Now my days are swifter than a post: they flee away ... my days are swifter than a weaver's shuttle
User avatar
aileth
NarniaWeb Junkie
Peripatetic powder-room sub
 
Posts: 570
Joined: Jan 02, 2014
Location: Western Canada
Gender: Female

Re: The Last Battle

Postby The Rose-Tree Dryad » Jul 29, 2014 11:14 am

Those are good ideas, wagga! I can also imagine Eustace and Jill talking about what had happened to the others, and that segways into a scene showing were the rest of the Friends of Narnia are, indicating that they've somehow gotten into Narnia as well, just not in the same part of Narnia.

One thing that seems a little odd, though, is that Peter already knows about the door and how it works (by having looked through the crack in it) before Tirian examines it himself. Based on the timing of things, it would seem that Peter already looked through the crack before Tirian ever came through the door. Being High King of Narnia—wouldn't he try the knob? Wouldn't he and the others want to go help once they realized that Narnians were in battle on the other side? I guess it just seems odd to think that all of them would just be waiting around, watching who came in and went back out, without ever trying to go through themselves. It's something the filmmakers may need to give some thought.

aileth wrote:Remember the complaints about PC, how Lucy went off for this little talk with Aslan, and sat with him while her brothers and sister were probably dying. Several people mentioned that they felt that it jarred on them. And here we have the Pevensies in this peaceful setting, while just on the other side of the door, the final desperate battle of Narnia is being fought.


Very good point. I'm thinking they may have to tweak some things in order to keep that from feeling too annoying. I mean, there's a Calormene on the other side of the door dragging Jill away to her death, and if it seems like the Friends of Narnia don't do anything, or think of doing anything, even when they already know that Narnians are battling beyond the door... that would look a bit bad. :-o It might be a difficult pill for the audience to swallow and create some sense of resentment towards those on the other side of the door, and of course we don't want that.

aileth wrote:And yet, this shift in tone might be the only way that it can be done effectively. I would think they could leave out Peter looking through the keyhole, though--might it not give too much away?


Honestly, they might want to leave out Peter understanding how the door works altogether. That might solve some of the aforementioned (potential) problems. Even so, I'm not sure how cinematic the idea of them all just sitting around and watching people come and go through the door will be, and it's not really a good idea to have a lot of exposition in a film, either; something we see a good bit of during those last chapters because the Friends of Narnia have to tell Tirian what has happened while he was on the other side of the door.

The filmmakers may have to do a lot of reworking in order to translate these happenings and ideas into a coherent and cinematic story.

aileth wrote:In the book we aren't really there for the whole thing; we only hear about it from them afterward. Who knows what went on while they were off-stage?


That's true. The strangest thing is that Tirian goes through the door and then he's alive and awake in Aslan's Country; no mention of a stream or blood or anything. Of course, Aslan nor his Country are constricted by Time, and it may have all happened out-of-time and out of Tirian's realm of perception (and that of the Friends of Narnia) the moment he crossed the threshold. I think a possible reason why Lewis left this part out is because it would have taken away the surprise that they had died and come to Aslan's Country, since we already had learned the drill in The Silver Chair when Caspian died and was brought back to life.
—The Rose-Tree Dryad, a.k.a. Rose @};-
Image
NW sister to Melian_Maia, lover of narnia, Elanor and juzuma loves lucy + NW twin to MissRosario
User avatar
The Rose-Tree Dryad
Moderator
 
Posts: 3805
Joined: Aug 21, 2010
Location: A secret garden
Gender: Female

PreviousNext

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Adsense [Bot] and 3 guests