"They had to have a love triangle..."

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Re: "They had to have a love triangle..."

Postby waggawerewolf27 » Jul 02, 2014 4:10 am

The Rose-Tree Dryad wrote:If they go the route of the love triangle or throw in a bunch of romantic tension between Jill and Eustace, I don't know what I'll do. :P

That being said, if Hollywood is bent on throwing in some sort of romance, I think I could potentially compromise with this: an implication that there was someone waiting back home for Rilian. Maybe someone who was friends with him growing up, who realized that she cared about him before he realized that he cared about her, and waited faithfully all the years that he was gone. We do know that Rilian eventually got married at some point, or else the line wouldn't have continued; the filmmakers may be interested in showing the audience who the lucky girl was.

Now, I'd find even this compromise annoying if 1) it took up more than a couple minutes of screen time, and 2) they invented a completely new character.


Quite so. These producers do tend to think too much about Pair Caravel and not enough about Cair Paravel. :ymdevil: Perhaps a session visiting the vet might cool their romantic urges, but I wouldn't bet on it. ;) Yes, someone leading Rilian away from his father's dead body might make a suitable spouse, and it is obvious that Rilian did get married later on. Hopefully he doesn't make the same mistakes as he did with LOTGK.
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Re: "They had to have a love triangle..."

Postby Meltintalle » Jul 02, 2014 8:19 am

It's my opinion that even if no love triangle or romance is written, shippers will find hints of one anyway. So I'd rather go the route of characters interacting in the script, and leave any potential mushiness up to the imagination of the viewer. It'll be more convincing when it's not about what they say but what they don't say... pleaseohpleasefingerscrossed.

Introducing a Narnian potential romantic interest for Rillian is interesting, but leaves you with the glaring question of, "But why didn't she go with the children instead of Puddleglum?" and we don't need to go there unless someone can come up with a cast iron reason why it would be utterly impractical for this hypothetical female to join the quest.
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Re: "They had to have a love triangle..."

Postby The Rose-Tree Dryad » Jul 02, 2014 12:00 pm

Narnian_Badger wrote:So, that being said, I can see there being a possibility of Jill forming a crush on Rillian in that last 20-15% of the film, and Eustace feeling "totally not jealous what are you talking about... maybe a bit" in reaction. :P I don't think it'd be that bad, and it wouldn't destroy the characters as long as it stays kind of understated.


You know, that's an interesting thought. One thing that's worth considering is that after Rilian is freed from the enchantment, he's an extremely courteous fellow. He shows concern for Jill after the slaying of the serpent, calls her damsel and says that she is of a high courage and noble blood. When they've left the dark castle and want to catch a gnome for questioning, Jill worries that all of them will come rushing at them as soon as they grab one, and Rilian says, "Then, Madam, you shall see us die fighting around you, and you must commend yourself to the Lion."

That's some serious chivalry right there. ;)) I wouldn't blame any girl for looking a bit starry-eyed upon hearing something like that, especially a girl like Jill Pole who gives the impression of someone who's been forgotten and passed over for most of her life. I could also imagine that Eustace would see the look on her face and think something along the lines of, "Bother, I already nearly killed myself jumping off a cliff to save you, and I don't remember you looking starry-eyed about that."

The thing is, neither of those reactions are indicative of having a crush per se, though I imagine that people could perceive it that way if they wanted to do so. I'd say that it's more along the lines of Jill being touched and impressed by Rilian's courtly manner and being treated like a lady and someone of value, while Eustace is a bit annoyed and jealous because he thinks he's been forgotten. It doesn't have to be romantic at all, though it may be enough to appease Hollywood at the same time.

Meltintalle wrote:It's my opinion that even if no love triangle or romance is written, shippers will find hints of one anyway. So I'd rather go the route of characters interacting in the script, and leave any potential mushiness up to the imagination of the viewer. It'll be more convincing when it's not about what they say but what they don't say... pleaseohpleasefingerscrossed.


Ditto. ;)) I also think that, going forward with the films, following the books as closely as possible is very important as well. That way, Eustace/Jill shippers and Jill/Tirian shippers will still see all of the "moments" that led them to adopt their ship in the first place, and the non-shippers won't be crying foul because it was already in the book. Everyone's happy! :P

Meltintalle wrote:Introducing a Narnian potential romantic interest for Rillian is interesting, but leaves you with the glaring question of, "But why didn't she go with the children instead of Puddleglum?" and we don't need to go there unless someone can come up with a cast iron reason why it would be utterly impractical for this hypothetical female to join the quest.


That's a very good point; I hadn't thought of that. :-? Well, there's the fact that King Caspian forbade anyone from going looking for his son, after so many of the questers didn't return. Still, if she loves him, you think she'd go anyway. (If she's a dryad, though, there may be a limit on how far or long you can wander from your tree before needing to return.) Plus, if the girl doesn't know about the signs, she can't be expected to try to come with them.

Also, at the end of chapter four when the owls are discussing who will go with the children, they say, "If they want to go that way—into Ettinsmoor—we must take them to one of the Marsh-wiggles. They're the only people who can help them much." My best guess is that because the Marsh-wiggles already lived close to the North and were somewhat familiar with the ways of the giants, and were also accustomed to living out-of-doors in a flat, treeless, windy expanse of land, they were especially suited for assisting Jill and Eustace on their quest. It's very interesting, though; I'd never paid much attention to that part before.
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Re: "They had to have a love triangle..."

Postby Narnian_Badger » Jul 02, 2014 4:54 pm

The Rose-Tree Dryad wrote:The thing is, neither of those reactions are indicative of having a crush per se, though I imagine that people could perceive it that way if they wanted to do so. I'd say that it's more along the lines of Jill being touched and impressed by Rilian's courtly manner and being treated like a lady and someone of value, while Eustace is a bit annoyed and jealous because he thinks he's been forgotten. It doesn't have to be romantic at all, though it may be enough to appease Hollywood at the same time.

Yeah, exactly. I don't think it needs to be anything major at all (as I said before, there's just no time, and certainly not enough time to do it well). But I also don't think it'd be too OOC to add a little nod or two. It'd probably be more realistic, because, as you said, Rilian is one chivalrous dude. It makes perfect sense for Jill to be impressed.

Granted, I wouldn't be surprised if a small thing like that was made to look like a big deal in trailers, but as long as the film itself doesn't go overboard I still think it could be OK.
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Re: "They had to have a love triangle..."

Postby aileth » Jul 15, 2014 10:40 am

Now if I were a movie producer... *rubs hands together in a sinister fashion*
I would put out a trailer with half of it being uncalled-for battles and the other half Jill making eyes at Rilian/Puddleglum/Eustace in the mushiest fashion and end with the prelude of a kiss with _____ (insert whichever character you would most hate to see in the situation) Imagine the indignation, the outrage, the frantic pleas of "Can't we do something!"

Everyone would threaten to boycott the movie, but with a few exceptions we'd all go to see it, if only to be able to bemoan the awfulness of it. And then there'd be none of that in the real thing. Because I hate extraneous romance myself.

Good thing I'm not a producer :D
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Re: "They had to have a love triangle..."

Postby Meltintalle » Jul 15, 2014 2:21 pm

Rose wrote: Plus, if the girl doesn't know about the signs, she can't be expected to try to come with them.
True... true... I'd momentarily forgotten that Glimfeather had warned them not to tell anyone what they were about to do. :)

I am thinking any hypothetical female would have already tried to rescue Rillian, and explaining all that would take precious minutes away from the story we actually want to see.

aileth wrote:Imagine the indignation, the outrage, the frantic pleas of "Can't we do something!"
Imagine the confusion of those who went to the theater to see this romantic fantasy... 8-} Something similar did happen with One Night With the King--I think they previewed every single kissing scene in the trailer. To me, it looked way overkill on the romance angle, but it was such a pleasant surprise when I actually saw the movie.
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Re: "They had to have a love triangle..."

Postby ceppault » Jul 16, 2014 9:17 am

Can appreciate the right to artistic license.

Safe to say I find the addition of the love triangle business distressing enough to NOT see Battle of Five Armies, let alone one added in Narnia that did not exist in the books.

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Re: "They had to have a love triangle..."

Postby Lady Galadriel » Jul 17, 2014 9:16 am

If we go by the estimated ages of the characters in the book, then I think the age difference between Jill and Rilian would be way too drastic for there to be a love triangle. Although Lewis never stated their ages explicitly, I seem to remember getting the distinct impression that Rilian was in his thirties, at least. He's held captive for ten years by the LotGK, and he only returns to Narnia in time to tell Caspian goodbye right before the King (book spoilers) dies of old age. Since Caspian is extremely elderly by the time of SC, what age must Rilian be, exactly? Even if the filmmakers made Jill college-age, then it seems they'd be hard-pressed to create a believable love subplot between her and Rilian.
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Re: "They had to have a love triangle..."

Postby The Rose-Tree Dryad » Jul 17, 2014 12:49 pm

Lady Galadriel wrote:Although Lewis never stated their ages explicitly, I seem to remember getting the distinct impression that Rilian was in his thirties, at least.


Yep, you would be right. In the Narnian timeline, it says that he was born in 2325 and rescued in 2356, putting him at around 31.
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Re: "They had to have a love triangle..."

Postby fantasia_kitty » Jul 17, 2014 1:54 pm

waggawerewolf27 wrote:These producers do tend to think too much about Pair Caravel and not enough about Cair Paravel. :ymdevil:

I just want you to know that that may be one of the best one-liners I've ever seen on this site. :)) Love it!

ceppault wrote:Safe to say I find the addition of the love triangle business distressing enough to NOT see Battle of Five Armies, let alone one added in Narnia that did not exist in the books.

Just don't need the indigestion.
Yes. Ditto. But my hope is with a new production team and (I believe) Gresham being more on board with the script this time around, that the artistic licenses taken will not be so extreme as VDT and The Hobbit.
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Re: "They had to have a love triangle..."

Postby aileth » Jul 20, 2014 11:51 pm

Meltintalle wrote:Imagine the confusion of those who went to the theater to see this romantic fantasy...


Aww, the poor things; I never thought of them! That would make the joke even crueler.

We'll hope that you are right, f_k, and that Gresham (and maybe even MG Company) will steer clear of such things. I mean, not every movie has to have a romance, does it?
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Re: "They had to have a love triangle..."

Postby Eustace » Jul 24, 2014 7:16 am

I hope that if they think about doing this, they will at least consider the age difference between Jill and Rilian. I mean, Rilian spent 10 years under the LOGTK's spell, he is probably at least 30. This age difference in itself may make them decide not to. On the other hand if they make Jill older, ugh, please no love triangle, scriptwriters and director. :-s
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Re: "They had to have a love triangle..."

Postby wolfloversk » Nov 05, 2014 1:27 pm

If the studio for Narnia suggests this can we start a fan petition to stop it? :P I admit I kinda am ok with it (and almost sort of like half of it) in the Hobbit
but I think it works better when there's a new character entirely, though in itself it's controversial for fans. That being said the proposition of a relationship between an elf and a dwarf kinda makes my skin crawl...
. I can see very well how the director and scriptwriter could do that in Narnia... and I HATE the idea. Partly because it's characters that fans already know and love and partly because it would mess with portrayal of said characters. Lastly and most of all... I think love triangles have been overdone in Hollywood to the point of being cliche.

If they really need a love triangle in the Silver Chair I'd rather they find three new characters entirely...
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Re: "They had to have a love triangle..."

Postby Lilygloves » Dec 17, 2014 9:58 pm

If the characters were casted as the right age, I don't think it would be an issue. I didn't see anyone start to ship Lucy and Tumnus after the movie because their ages were different enough, so I think that could work for Rilian and Jill. Unfortunately, Hollywood typically casts teenagers to play children and younger people to play older people, so I don't think that's something we can count on.
The only real romantic implication between Rilian and Jill is when he calls her "sweetheart" and he may compliment her looks at one point (I can't remember exactly) but I always took that as him being kind of a jerk in his enchanted state. For example, no one thinks Haymitch is flirting with Katniss when he calls her "sweetheart" and stuff like that because it's just Haymitch being a jerk.
I think Hollywood will either embrace the ship and possible love triangle (which is not canon in any way) or alter the text to remove any implications. Unfortunately, nowadays any relationship between a boy and a girl in Hollywood is considered to be romantic, so in following the latter we could expect them to make Eustace a girl. ;)) (Just kidding.) I think that now we say that we hate the "Jillian" (or whatever it's called) ship, but there are people that ship Suspian now after PC. I'm sure a lot of fans will dislike it, but there are people that ship it already or will ship it after seeing it play out in the movie. I think most people hate the idea now, but the percentage of Narnia fans that hate it now will probably go down a bit if the movie does the ship and the triangle.
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