VDT - "Pitched Battles"

[icarus]

The idea of adding battles to Voyage of the Dawn Treader is certainly not a new one. I'd imagine it was probably most peoples first thought when they considered what changes might be made for the movie version.

We've also heard lots of bits and pieces throughout pre-production about the idea of adding battle sequences to Voyage of the Dawn Treader.

First there was the summary on Pre-Viz studio The Third Floor Inc's website:

additional team members were brought on to help tackle some of the
major battle sequences, this time above and below water

http://www.thethirdfloorinc.com/publish/features-1e8796

Then there was a quote on YouTube, attached to a video of unreleased Pre-Viz work from Prince Caspian which said:

On to a different story: In "The Voyage of the Dawn Treader", there will be a battle that takes place underwater, involving merman and crew members of the Dawn Treader. Well, at least it is in the pre-viz.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaVj_Q0dkCc#

There was also a quote on the resume of pre-viz artist Brian Weaver which said:

previz for "sea monster attack" "dragon flying" and "final battle"

http://www.brianweaver.com/

I however had assumed that all the ideas and pre-viz work about "battles" and other such nonsense, were all binned along with the infamous "leaked script", and that like Trumpkin, Cornelius (and a whole host of other stupid things that have definitely been axed since that script) we would not be seeing them in the final movie.

However, as we all probably saw before the big switch over, Ben Barnes said in a recent interview:

There are some big pitched battles in this one, swords and action,

http://www.narniaweb.com/2009/09/ben-barnes-talks-dawn-treader/

For those of you who aren't aware what a "pitched" battle is:

A pitched battle is a battle where both sides choose to fight at a chosen location and time and where either side has the option to disengage either before the battle starts, or shortly after the first armed exchanges

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitched_battle

I think most people here would probably agree that battles in general aren't the best direction to be going with this film. Ben's follow up quote of "although this film is more about magic, creatures and discovery" did at least give some reassurance, but still that threat of added battles remains.

Is there anyone here who is in support of an added battle sequence? How would they go about incorporating a battle, never mind a "pitched battle" into the movie? Who could they possibly be battling against?

[Gymfan15]

In regards to your quote collection, I'm pretty positive that all the stuff referencing underwater battles is a moot point now, as that was from the leaked script and I have it on good authority that that nonsense was scrapped ages ago.

Now, on the subject of battles in general, I'm going to quote what I wrote in the Old Narnia(web) to save me having to type up another post.

In a recent interview, Ben Barnes said: "There are some big pitched battles in this one, swords and action, although this film is more about magic, creatures and discovery."

The very fact that Ben threw in the last half of that sentence makes me not as worried as I would have been. He says there is fighting, but magic and discovery is rated over that.

I always knew they were going to throw SOME kind of fight/battle in there; my guess is that it's probably going to be Narrowhaven and the Sea Serpent. And maybe a little Invisible Army thrown in for good measure? But anyway. I always knew they were going to ramp up the action a tad; that's fairly inevitable. But as long as it doesn't become the focus of the movie, it's not too bad.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see. I have faith...only a little, but it's there.

Also in the Old thread, gP said that he thought that Ben threw out that last line just to calm us down. I cannot give any perspective on this; as I said, my take on the current battle situation is based on things I've heard from confirmed and unconfirmed sources, and what I believe to be the general direction they are taking the film. Obviously there is still a lot of time between now and release date, and new information may come to light. But for now, I choose to take Ben literally and not read between the lines.

[Umbarto]

Well, I'm gonna say that Ben probably didn't mean exactly what you got from Wikipedia when he said "pitched." Obviously, it's open to interpretation, but I think he just meant some action, probably at the Lone Islands and against the Sea Serpent (maybe with the Invisible Army that we've also been hearing about). Right now I'm not worried, and I'll remain that way until there's strong evidence for me to change my mind.

[twinimage]

It just seems too early for us to really tell yet.
I'm not going to worry too much about one comment that was thrown out by one person. I'm still hopeful and optimistic. I wish we knew more and knew what exactly Barnes meant by pitched battles. (BTW, thanks for the definition icarus! ) Though the latter part of Barnes' comment eased my mind some.

It could be multiple things. I always suspected they'd add a battle scene to Narrowhaven. I wouldn't really like to see a battle with the merpeople, though not far from the books description of how each side felt toward each other, it might take away from the real ending, of reaching the worlds end and meeting Aslan. Though they may come in contact with the merpeople earlier than in the film.

There's also the rumored "unfathomable fate" which may have a role in adding to battle scenes.

- Twinimage

[Farsight1]

I second what Twinimage said. Too early on to tell. Whatever we guess could change in the blink of an eye. As I said on the board somewhere else before, I just hope they don't add huge battles where they don't belong.

[Beren]

When Umbarto brought to mind the invisible army (the duffers), that brought on a host of possibilities that seem like they may actually happen.

In PC, they took the dark magic scene further than in the book. What if they took the confrontation between the invisible Duffers and the Narnians a little further? And just as a side-note: this battle would take place on the beach. In the book, Lucy agrees to dissolve the spell for the duffers at risk to her own life (because they don't know if Coriakin is evil or not). Perhaps she waits on this decision, and the battle starts, and Aslan shows up to intervene. Then the battle would stop, and Aslan would tell Lucy to go up to Coriakin's library and undo the spell. This would explain why they had the stuffed Aslan on the beach that one time.

I know this is far-fetched, but when I thought of it, everything seemed to fall into place, and it seems like some stupid thing that they would consider to add action.

If Adamson has any say on anything (which there is a small chance he might), it seems like he'd be pushing for action. I'm sure some of you have seen the deleted scenes of PC with Adamson's commentary. He says quite a few times that he cut the particular scene to "get on with the action." Although the cuts may have been needed, Adamson's tone and demeanor in this commentary is somewhat unsettling. And although he's not director any more, he's still the Producer (along with Mark Johnson).

Now do I seriously think all of this will happen? No. But I always consider every possibility. This is a possibility.

[Lava]

As long as they are not crazy scenes where at least 50 narnians die, I think it could be okay. I am not sure that I like the idea of them extending the mer-scene with battles though

[icarus]

Well, I'm gonna say that Ben probably didn't mean exactly what you got from Wikipedia when he said "pitched."

I'd tend to agree that he possibly didn't use the term "pitched battle" with the strict text-book definition in mind.... However, Ben Barnes is a very smart guy. He wouldn't of just thrown the word "pitched" in there for no reason. And i think the reason he chose to add that word in there (whether it was a conscious decision or not) was to imply that he meant "battles" in the very traditional sense of the word, and not just to refer to general action scenes. That in my mind would rule out the Sea Monster and the Storm as being "battles", as i can't believe Ben would ever think to refer to them as "Pitched Battles" no matter how general he was being with the term.

I think you may be right in that "The Invisible Army" of the code-name is something much more significant than just being a cool code-name.

As long as they are not crazy scenes where at least 50 narnians die, I think it could be okay.

Perhaps the one saving grace is that any such battle is going to be limited by the number of Narnians they can fit aboard the Dawn Treader, so they thankfully can't do anything too over-the-top in terms of scale. And equally, they will need a sufficent number of Narnians still alive after the battle to crew the boat, both for the rest of the movie, and for the journey home, so the conflict can't be particuarly savage.

[Pattertwigs Pal]

I am worried about the “pitched battle” part too. However, with the definition given (assuming I am understanding it), I could see how the part with the pirates, which was just mentioned in the book, could be converted into a pitched battle if the pirates decided to stay and fight instead of leaving after some shooting of arrows. Likewise, I suppose the Narnians could choose to try to fight the Dufflepuds instead of listening to their story. Reep tried to fight the merpeople but got distracted. However, if he chooses to fight the others would either have to rescue (i.e. catch him and pull him up on the ship) or decide to join in the fight. The only one of these options that I wouldn’t hate is the one with the pirates. I almost got the impression from Ben’s interview that stuff happens on the boat before the children arrive. A fight with merpeople is not very viable logistically. The merpeople can’t breathe above water, and the crew can’t stay underwater that long. (Unless the minotaur has some power I don’t know about. Maybe that’s why they would bring such a creature on a boat.) I will be very angry if there is a battle at Narrowhaven.

Perhaps the one saving grace is that any such battle is going to be limited by the number of Narnians they can fit aboard the Dawn Treader, so they thankfully can't do anything too over-the-top in terms of scale. And equally, they will need a sufficent number of Narnians still alive after the battle to crew the boat, both for the rest of the movie, and for the journey home, so the conflict can't be particuarly savage.

Very good point. It makes me feel a little (but only a little) better.

[Dernhelm_of_Rohan]

A battle in VDT? Underwater makes it sound like they're going to have the crew fight those sea people from chapter 15, but that definitely breaks from the book.
That's the only place I can think of for a battle, unless they turn the Lone Islands on their heads.
I sure hope this only turns out to be fighting the sea serpent!

[Sparky]

A fight with merpeople is not very viable logistically. The merpeople can’t breathe above water, and the crew can’t stay underwater that long.

That can be solved easily enough by changing them into merpeople who can breathe above water. They've changed details a lot bigger than that.
First thing that pops into my head when the subject of added battles come up is a battle with pirates. I think I'd rather see that then a battle with the merpeople.

[Aravanna]

Perhaps the one saving grace is that any such battle is going to be limited by the number of Narnians they can fit aboard the Dawn Treader, so they thankfully can't do anything too over-the-top in terms of scale. And equally, they will need a sufficent number of Narnians still alive after the battle to crew the boat, both for the rest of the movie, and for the journey home, so the conflict can't be particuarly savage.

Unless the crew is graced with the same, mysterious blessing that Susan's arrows possessed.

*actually thinks a fight at Narrowhaven is likely* We do have a picture of Eustace wacking humans in the heads with oars after all.

[adamie]

I hope they do not add to much battles, but if they do, I would prefer Narrowhaven, or something to do with the Lone Islands. Then there is the Sea Serpent, which isn't much of a battle. But I was thinking, isn't it possible (believe me I would prefer never seeing this idea realized) that they add this action scene on the dark Island. Imagine that there would be this dark, demon bat-like creatures attacking the dawn treader, and they try to defend themselves, and then They are losing, so Lucy starts praying to Aslan, and Aslan comes as an Albatross.

O and I thought we might see another fight between Edmund and Caspian or so in the trailer, but that might be nothing to worry about. I think they will make fight at deathwater island, and extend the discussion Edmund and Caspian have.

[JadistarkilleR]

i'm pretty sure there's going to be at least one major battle sequence, at this point in the franchise it should be expected. a major battle usually serve to climax film storytelling regardless if the source material had one or not. the only thing we can hope for now is that the battle compliments the tale that VDT is trying to tell. and so far all the rumors that have come out are within the boundaries of the VDT story.

[Movie Aristotle]

But I was thinking, isn't it possible (believe me I would prefer never seeing this idea realized) that they add this action scene on the dark Island. Imagine that there would be this dark, demon bat-like creatures attacking the dawn treader, and they try to defend themselves, and then They are losing, so Lucy starts praying to Aslan, and Aslan comes as an Albatross.

I just thought of that Friday but didn't get a chance to comment on it until today. I think we've all been overlooking the prospect of a battle at dark island, yet it all fits. Why couldn't there be hoards and hoards of (imaginary) enemies attacking the ship? It would certainly bring out the nightmarish nature of the episode. Obviously the book is more subtle with the scene, but why couldn't the filmmakers expand it so that the crew has to battle against their dreams? And the nice advantage is that even though everyone on the ship feels threatened, nobody in the crew could die from the encounter since "there was nothing to fear, and never had been." (I take that quote to mean that the creatures from dark island, while real, didn't have the power to do any real harm. All they could do was torment.)

Right now, I think I prefer I fight at the dark island to a fight anywhere else. As others have said, the cool thing about Narrowhaven is that they reconquered the lone islands without a battle. I think fighting any dragons would be too problematic story-wise and I think that fighting Dufflepuds would be like bullying.

[fantasia]

Even though most of the battle stuff seemed to disappear with the leaked script, I have a sneaking suspicion that the movie people were concerned with the lack of climax at the end of the book. Even we as NarniaWebbers were concerned about this...
Mermaids keep cropping up in various descriptions of the movie and in the book they just weren't that big of a deal. To make it in to the movie description tells me that that part has been expanded a good deal. And I suspect that a battle will be added at the end to make the movie more climactic.
I really don't like that idea, but as long as it doesn't involve the Lady of the Green Kirtle feeding souls to a sea monster (or whatever it was), I guess I can live. It IS at least based off of something that was in the book.