Christmas in Narnia?

[Louloudi the Centaur]

I do like the idea of Frank and Helen bringing Christmas into Narnia when they came, but wouldn't that mean they would have brought in Christianity as well? Well, I know classmates that celebrate Christmas, yet they are atheist or agnostic, and don't celebrate Christ at all. Maybe the Narnians should then call Christmas "Aslanmas" ?

As to Father Christmas, he is a myth in many, many cultures, but in slight variations each. Keep in mind that Narnia has creatures from Greek mythology and Roman mythology and others, so I would assume Father Christmas comes from mythology as well.

[narnialuver]

I was thinking about this last night and I remembered the famous quote from VDT, "In your world I have another name". Many of us understand that Aslan represents Jesus. If Aslan is Jesus, then they both exist but in different form. So Christmas is still when Jesus was born, but Jesus is Aslan in Narnia. (does this make any sense to you??)

Lilygloves is right. aslan is Christ in our world so Christmas is in all worlds. and do not forget that there are more worlds than just narnia.

[Spec-Ops-Dwarf]

I certain that it has to do with Lewis's orginal vision of a faun carrying an umbrella and parcels in a snowy wood. It looks as though he he had done some Christmas shopping. AND BY GUM! He probably was not actually doing any Christmas shopping at that Jadusian time. BUT the idea was erremovibly lodged deep into Lewis's head! Ha ha!

Yet if you look into history, when Jesus was baptised, the Holy Spirit came on him in the likeness of a dove.

So it does, in real life, make sense to have Him in two forms in one world

[Andrew]

I don't think the real issue is the holiday - it's the fact that they call it "Christmas." Every culture in our own world has celebrations for the Winter solstice. The only reason we call ours Christmas is that the Roman Catholic church wanted to give Christians a holiday to celebrate rather than partake in the preexisting pagan one, so they assigned the birth of Christ to it, just as they designated His ressurection to easter. The fact that C.S. Lewis calls it Christmas without explanation seems to me to just be the result of writing a book for children, where not everything has to be explained in detail, and it gives them a holiday that they can relate to. Most children in western culture might not understand, "Always winter, but never Winter solstice."

[Lady Arwen]

I'm afraid I'm going to have respectfully disagree, Andrew. The Muslims do not have a winter holiday centered on the solstice, and neither do the Africans...Kwanzaa is a holiday created by an American association of some sort. The Hindus do have a winter holiday, but it usually lands in the beginning of January if I remember correctly (its been a while since I had any friends that celebrated it...they moved back to India). Most Asians do not have any specific holiday, other than their culturally adopted version of Christmas, around the solstice (the exception to this being the Japanese, who do have a winter festival of lights). The main Christmas-tide holidays all stem from European countries (where the solstice would be easily noticed) or the Jewish tradition (Hanukkah).

In light of this, I think that Lewis may have included the mention of Christmas specifically to drive home the identity of Aslan. The constant winter of sin began melting away with Christ's arrival on earth in flesh, just as the White Witch's power beings to wane when Aslan arrives in Narnia. The children, even with seeing the good Saint, would still have identified Christmas with Christ. Lewis might have also thought of the origin of the word Christmas ("Christ's Mass", or the mass set to celebrate the arrival of a redeemer and King) when he wrote about having Christmas in Narnia. As someone said up aways, it might have been nice to call it Aslanmass, but I don't know...I think I would giggle every time I read "Aslanmass"--sounds a bit too funny in my head.

[Narnian_Badger]

As someone said up aways, it might have been nice to call it Aslanmass, but I don't know...I think I would giggle every time I read "Aslanmass"--sounds a bit too funny in my head.

Heehee, indeed. I'm certain that if it had been written by Tolkien, and not Lewis, then there would be a whole history to explain the conundrum as well as a few dozen words (and possibly a language in and of itself to go along). No "Aslanmass" here, thank heavens. Lewis, however, did not think in that way, and wrote mostly whatever fit his needs at that time. It's not a... bad way of writing, especially for the specific fantasy/children genre, but not very conducive for nitpickers like us (me, I get hung up perpetually on such details, and generally have a horrible time plotting because of it).

But anyway, LWW was certainly meant to be a stand-alone book, and then PC, VDT, and the rest sort of hijacked Lewis's creative cells. As DiGs pointed out, the fact that they have Christmas and that it's actually called Christmas makes perfect sense because of Frank and Helen, but Father Christmas himself... I don't know. Maybe he came from where ever LotGK came from. That reminds me, did Father Christmas only visit Narnians? What about to Calorman? Archenland? Galma? Ettinsmoor? Certainly there were followers of Aslan in Archenland, and they didn't have the hundred year winter (as far as we know).

Here's a thought: what if Father Christmas is a star? It would, at the very least, explain why he doesn't age (or at least, ages much slower than we humans!). Besides that, he could make a conceivable parallel for the Star of David.

[Varnafinde]

Here's a thought: what if Father Christmas is a star? It would, at the very least, explain why he doesn't age (or at least, ages much slower than we humans!). Besides that, he could make a conceivable parallel for the Star of David.

But that wouldn't explain how Jadis could keep him out of Narnia for a hundred years, would it?

I think he has a different position in Narnia than in our world, though. In boths worlds he brings gifts at a certain time of the year. In our world that is supposed to be connected with the birth of Christ, hence the name - but in Narnia he has no such connection, and the name is only what Frank and Helen call him because he comes at the same time of the year as what they are used to call Christmas.

I'm not sure that it makes completely sense, though

[Narnian_Badger]

But that wouldn't explain how Jadis could keep him out of Narnia for a hundred years, would it?

It's never really clear how the Witch kept him out either way, or even how she created the Hundred Year Winter. I'd always kind of assumed that no one was able to get into Narnia (and if they could, then again, what on earth [Narnia? The world really needs a name ] was Archenland, etc., doing?), sort of like a... I don't know, Time Lock a la Doctor Who? Except without the out-of-time part. That, or Jadis had her minions on patrol a lot.

Really, I think the main reason Lewis had the "never Christmas" part was just to home in on the idea that Always Winter was a bad thing. After all, most kids (around here, anyway), would think the same as Lucy: "Snowball fights and Ice skating!" And, if Christmas was just something families did without an outside force (Father Christmas), then there wouldn't be a way for the Witch to completely remove the holiday.

I've heard some folks suggest that Father Christmas is supposed to represent the Holy Spirit... I'm not too keen on the idea though.


(Also, I wonder what Father Christmas was doing before the Pevensies arrived in Prince Caspian. Did he deliver presents to the Narnians in hiding? )

[Dernhelm_of_Rohan]

I've heard some folks suggest that Father Christmas is supposed to represent the Holy Spirit... I'm not too keen on the idea though.

I was recently reading a book called Planet Narnia, which suggests that each of the seven books has a different celestial theme from medieval mythology/alchemy/astronomy. (remember that myth and fact were not so clearly separated back then) According to the author, Michael Ward, the seven books are categorized as follows:

MN - Venus
LWW - Jupiter
HHB - Mercury
PC - Mars
VDT - Sol (the sun, which was considered a planet at the time)
SC - Luna (the moon, which was considered a planet at the time)
LB - Saturn

Bear with me; I realize this seems a bit tedious and not very applicable to the question. All that was to say, according to Ward's theory, LWW is inspired by or designed around the qualities of Jupiter. Jupiter or Jove was the king of the gods, a merry, forgiving, laughing figure. (hence the word "jovial", meaning joyous) From Ward's website:

[Jupiter] represented joy, in particular that pleasure and heartsease which come in late spring and early summer when all vestiges of winter have finally vanished...  He was associated with thrones, oaks, feasts, eagles, lions, blazing trumpets, fluttering banners, and crashing waves.

All of which we see in LWW. Now, to actually answer the question "why Father Christmas in Narnia?", Ward's answer is that Father Christmas has all the qualities of a Jove-like figure. He is associated with feasts and presents, joy and peace. Christmas was also supposed to be a time when the cold of winter did not affect the hearts of the people celebrating.

I'm not saying I agree with him, but he makes an interesting argument.

[coracle]

I am not a fan of the ideas (not new) about the seven planets, found most recently in Planet Narnia.

However I believe Lewis had the right to include any mythological creatures in Narnia that he wanted to.
So he included Father Christmas, who is indeed a Jove-like character, very much like the other European personifications of the winter solstice festival.

Unlike the American Santa Claus (and the historical bishop Saint Niklaus/Nicholas who he commemorates) Father Christmas was not a real person, he was a mythological one. He therefore fits in Narnia, and links conveniently in with English children who believed in him as the one who brought presents at Christmas time.

[Aslanisthebest]

I am not a fan of the ideas (not new) about the seven planets, found most recently in Planet Narnia.

!!!! Thank God! Someone else! I was getting a bit worried when watching that DVD and pretty much everyone they interviewed saw the proposed "connection" and "couldn't believe how fantastic it was!" This is the first time I've seen someone else who isn't taken by that theory, outside of my sister and me. It's far-fetched and, to me, unpleasant.

About Christmas... I think C.S. Lewis just put it in there. And Father Christmas, I'm assuming, represented Father Christmas legends, St. Nicholas himself, etc, etc.
I think that with Christmas, C.S. Lewis could draw a connection (like Lady A mentioned) about who Aslan was and what his presence meant to Narnia - and then see what Christ's arrival on Earth meant to us.

[Lady Rosalia]

About a year ago, I read part of a book that was a collection of C.S. Lewis' letters to children, mostly regarding Narnia. I'm sure that most of you know about it Anyway, in one of the letters a child asked Lewis what Aslan's other Name is. He replied with a series of questions, on of them being, "Who came at the same time as Father Christmas?"
Based on that, I assume that Father Christmas was part of the symbolism, and also part of the fun.
Just an idea
Long live Aslan and Merry Christmas!