Christmas in Narnia?

[Valiant]

Tumnas talks about Christmas when he meets Lucy in LWW. Does that mean that Christ is in Narnia? That doesn't make sense as Aslan is Christ really, so it doesn't make sense to have him in two forms in one world. IDK, I just thought that was an interesting thought. Any ideas?

[DiGoRyKiRkE]

Frank and Helen likely brought the celebration of Christmas into that world, when they were established as King and Queen. They would have passed those traditions on to their children, who (after they married Dryads and Naiads) would have continued to pass it on, until it became a holiday.

Christ isn't in Narnia; only through Aslan.

[aragorn2]

Digory,
that can't be the case because Father Christmas is there, and I'm sure he wasn't sent there by Aslan. I don't think He would be cruel enough to deprive this world of Christmas just so another world could have a holiday that totally pointless.

[Lilygloves]

I guess since Aslan has another name in our world, it could ( and I think most of us assume) that refers to Jesus. Ergo (ooh, fancy word! ), Christmas could be when Jesus/Aslan was born.

[puddleglum32]

Yes thats a good idea Lilygloves.

[Tesseract]

I don't think there's any perfect explanation for this. DigoryKirke's reasoning for the tradition entering Narnia makes sense, but the existence of a real Father Christmas in Narnia does not. This was one of the reasons why J. R. R. Tolkien didn't like the Narnia books very much - he felt that they borrowed too much from previous myths and legends.

Apparently Dr. Michael Ward wrote about why Father Christmas is there in his book The Narnia Code, but I haven't gotten around to reading that yet.

[Ithilwen]

I'm thinking maybe the reason why C.S. Lewis put Father Christmas in LWW is because of the circumstances under which he wrote LWW. When he wrote LWW, it was not supposed to be a first book in a whole series (he wasn't planning on making any more at the time), or even a literary masterpiece. At the time it was just a gift for a young friend of his named Lucy. And little Lucy probably would have liked to see Father Christmas in the story.


~Riella

[stargazer]

Ithilwen's suggestion that LWW is a one-off book and thus contains issues like this makes sense. (Another I've heard mentioned is Mrs. Beaver's sewing machine, when there's not much in the way of similar technology mentioned elsewhere in the books).

Tesseract, a friend is reading The Narnia Code right now, and we've had some discussions about it. I'm not as conversant with it as I would be if I were reading it, but you're right that the presence of Father Christmas is significant to Ward's assertion that the planet Jupiter governs LWW - and what more jovial (related to Jove - Jupiter) figure than Father Christmas? (Though the European vision of Father Christmas is somewhat more somber than the stereotypical modern Santa Claus).

That Frank and Helen brought Christmas into Narnia with them makes sense as a retcon explanation of why Narnians would know about Christmas in later generations.

[waggawerewolf27]

I'm thinking maybe the reason why C.S. Lewis put Father Christmas in LWW is because of the circumstances under which he wrote LWW. When he wrote LWW, it was not supposed to be a first book in a whole series (he wasn't planning on making any more at the time), or even a literary masterpiece. At the time it was just a gift for a young friend of his named Lucy. And little Lucy probably would have liked to see Father Christmas in the story.

Yes, you are right. Lucy Barfield would have expected Father Christmas in the story. And no, C.S.Lewis may not have originally intended to write six more books. I believe he planned to stop with VDT in any case.

[veggiet_sam]

The thing that I've always thought about father Christmas is how CS Lewis seems to simply assume that he's real and doesn't really give any indication that he is locked into the world of narnia, or our world (CS lewis' version of our world in the story.) We know that he was prevented from entering narnia in the 100 year winter, whether or not that meant Narnia the world or 'Narnia' the country. If anything I think this adds more to the mythology of Santa Claus than it does to Narnia, whether or not Lewis intended it to do so. Not only is FC real, he can travel all over the world in one night, and can also travel across the wood between the worlds. Which is a fascinating Idea. If I were to embellish upon the myth I'd say that at Christ's birth, Aslan (the Christ-figure) gave a spiritual or mortal being special abilities to bring joy around Christmas to all world's, probably even Charn.... (This is all just speculation on my part, based on how Lewis phrases certain things)

[Pepper]

"...told you he was real."

One of my favorite lines of all time.

[Dernhelm_of_Rohan]

Perhaps FC and the holiday itself were put in Narnia as a way to let the children have something they could relate with, something not entirely out of their experiance, while at the same time, find that in Narnia, legends and myths are real. After all, a good story sometimes teaches more than a sermon, especially if it happens to be true.

[Lilygloves]

I was thinking about this last night and I remembered the famous quote from VDT, "In your world I have another name". Many of us understand that Aslan represents Jesus. If Aslan is Jesus, then they both exist but in different form. So Christmas is still when Jesus was born, but Jesus is Aslan in Narnia. (does this make any sense to you??)

[Silvan_Haven]

I suppose when you travel the world in a day and do so in many diferent worlds, things like the laws of physics dont realy matter.

[JohnBrownsage]

Well, if you understand the history of Christmas and the winter solstice festivals it came from (Jesus' real birthday is unknown of course), you can see it might be universal and so appropriate for Narnia. That's especially true during the perpetual winter of the White Witch, because the winter solstice (i.e. Christmas) signals winter's end: from that point on, the days grow longer, and spring is coming. So "never Christmas" was really part of the same evil spell as "always winter." And the coming of Father Christmas was the signal of spring returning, which of course it soon did.

[Lilygloves]

In the Last Battle, Lucy says, "In our world too, a stable once had something inside it that was bigger than our whole world."
I can't think of any other thing she could be alluding to than Jesus when he was born in the stable. I figured that Jesus is to us what Aslan is to Narnians. He is just a different form, sort of how there's Santa Claus, Father Christmas, Papa Noel, etc. He changes characteristics and physical appearances based on the country, but the basic ideas are the same. Similarly, Jesus could be Himself in our world but then be Aslan in Narnia. So I think that Aslan could be Jesus, and they could celebrate His birth in our world and Narnia.