Sherlock Holmes

The community lounge for non-Narnian discussions.

Moderators: stargazer, johobbit

Sherlock Holmes

Postby 220chrisTian » Jun 17, 2014 1:08 pm

Sir Arthur Conan Doyle (1859-1930) introduced the world to Mr. Sherlock Holmes in 1887 with A Study in Scarlet. From their residence at 221b Baker Street, the London consulting detective and his sidekick Dr. Watson investigate a murder at Brixton Road, one that involves Mormons and revenge. The pair appeared in 3 more novels and 56 stories (collected in 5 books) before Doyle retired Holmes, for the second time, in 1927. [The first attempt was “The Final Problem” (1893), in which Holmes and Professor Moriarty plunge to their deaths in the Reichenbach Falls in Switzerland. Holmes reappears in “The Adventure of the Empty House” (1903).] The complete publication list is on Wikipedia.

Over 70 actors have played Sherlock Holmes on stage, radio, film, and television, including Basil Rathbone, Jeremy Brett, Robert Downey Jr., and Benedict Cumberbatch. Even Wishbone the dog played the London detective, twice. Dozens of non-canonical Holmes stories and novels have also appeared in print. Doyle tried to retire Mr. Holmes, but the man lives on.

1. How were you introduced to Sherlock Holmes?
2. What attracts you to Holmes – character, personality, techniques, habits, appearance, etc? Is there anything that you dislike about him?
3. What are your favorites: story, novel, minor character, nemesis, on-screen Holmes, film, TV episode, etc?
4. Have you read any non-canonical stories? How do they compare with Doyle?
5. Have you visited the Holmes museum or joined the Holmes Society?
6. Do you have any Holmes memorabilia?
User avatar
220chrisTian
NarniaWeb Guru
 
Posts: 2177
Joined: Mar 23, 2009
Location: USA
Gender: Female

Re: Sherlock Holmes

Postby IloveFauns » Jun 17, 2014 10:11 pm

1. I am trying to remember, but I am struggling to remember a time when I didn't know of sherlock holmes.
2. His personality- The Benedict cumberbatch's sherlocks and the original book sherlock lack of personal skills.
3. The red headed league was one of my favourites from the book series. I liked the hound of baskerville tv-series wise.
4. I don't believe I have, but I have likely forgotten.
5. I have visited the sherlock holmes museum. I dragged dad there when we visited london. The gift-shop was awsome. I got a really cool book.
6. Does a pipe from the sherlock holmes museum count?
User avatar
IloveFauns
NarniaWeb Zealot
 
Posts: 6424
Joined: Aug 22, 2008
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Gender: Female

Re: Sherlock Holmes

Postby 220chrisTian » Jun 26, 2014 2:05 pm

@ILoveFauns: thanks for the reply! (a week late)

I also can't remember a time when I didn't know about Holmes. We share favorite stories too. So you like that he's a Bohemian. Interesting. I haven't visited the museum, so I envy you! Yes, a pipe counts. I don’t own any Holmes memorabilia and I’m not a member of any society. :p

I don’t know when I was introduced to Sherlock Holmes. My first memory is an episode of Wishbone, either “A Scandal in Bohemia” or “Hound of the Baskervilles.” This kids’ program made Conan Doyle’s stories seem like a fun, intelligent adventure. I read the “Adventures” collection soon after that. I eventually read “The Sign of Four” as well, which I preferred.

I began an adult reading program a few weeks ago, so I decided to read the Holmes books. I’ve read all four novels, except for part 2 of “Valley of Fear.” I wasn’t interested. The same goes for part 2 of “Study in Scarlet.” I want the crime and solution, not the back story. “Sign of Four” is an exception because the final chapter is shorter and I love studying British India. Still, “Hound of the Baskervilles” is definitely the best novel! I’ve also read four story collections: Adventures, Casebook, Memoirs, and Return. “A Scandal in Bohemia” and “Red-Headed League,” both in the ‘Adventures’ collection, are my favorite stories. But I don’t have any strong dislikes.

I like Holmes’ reasoning methods and all-nighters, but not his drug habits or aversion to sex. What I really admire in Holmes is how he helps Scotland Yard as a writer and independent investigator. Has anyone tried to create his monographs on typewriters and tobacco? Holmes created a niche for himself according to his interests and talents. I want to do the same in entertainment. I like Watson as a sidekick too. I’m just as ‘dumb’ as he is! My favorite nemesis is Professor Moriarty. He’s like Satan himself and I love Holmes’ soliloquies on him.

Adaptations
Jeremy Brett (BBC) is my favorite Holmes, so iconic in story and setting. I haven't had a chance to see the new series with Benedict Cumberbatch. I don't own a TV and my local library doesn't have it. They stock what they choose. Should I watch Basil Rathbone or not?

I watched part of Guy Ritchie’s 2009 film on HBO a few years ago. I liked that Holmes and Watson are young and active. Based on the stories themselves, that change isn't ridiculous. However, since I didn’t like the film's racy thrills or murders, I’m hesitant to see the sequel. :-s
User avatar
220chrisTian
NarniaWeb Guru
 
Posts: 2177
Joined: Mar 23, 2009
Location: USA
Gender: Female

Re: Sherlock Holmes

Postby IloveFauns » Jun 26, 2014 5:45 pm

I agree it is very hard to dislike one of the original Sherlock Holmes stories.

I have watched a few of the adaptations. The more resent ones, and the bbc modern take is a must. Find it online, buy the dvd or go to the local dvd hiring store.

The American version, is well "too american" for me. I don't see why other countries feel the need to make there own versions of a already good show.

All I remember about the Guy Ritchie's 2011 sequel, is that stephen fry played a good mycroft. I never purchased the dvd.
User avatar
IloveFauns
NarniaWeb Zealot
 
Posts: 6424
Joined: Aug 22, 2008
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Gender: Female

Re: Sherlock Holmes

Postby 220chrisTian » Jun 28, 2014 2:50 pm

Doyle's stories: I have one left in His Last Bow. Then I'll be done with the canon. I liked "His Last Bow" and "Bruce Partington Plans," but not "Lady Frances Carfax." It gave me the willies, with overtones of the "Young Sherlock Holmes" film. :(

Non-canonical stories: I just borrowed A Slight Trick of the Mind (2005) by Mitch Cullen at my local library. I think I'll enjoy it. An adaptation with Ian McKellen and Laura Linney is in pre-production (2015). :)

http://www.amazon.com/Slight-Trick-Mind ... 400078229/
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3168230/

Interesting ideas on the adaptations. Which one do you mean by "American"? And how is it too American? :-\
User avatar
220chrisTian
NarniaWeb Guru
 
Posts: 2177
Joined: Mar 23, 2009
Location: USA
Gender: Female

Re: Sherlock Holmes

Postby IloveFauns » Jun 28, 2014 5:52 pm

Oh sorry. My family really like British television shows generally. We have this saying that a show is too american. Don't get me wrong I do like some American tv series(mad men) but I do find a lot of the Dramas over acted and generally not to my liking(only my taste I must say).

Elementary is the show I was talking about. Here is a link. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elementary_(TV_series) It completely misses the right personality for sherlock.
User avatar
IloveFauns
NarniaWeb Zealot
 
Posts: 6424
Joined: Aug 22, 2008
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Gender: Female

Re: Sherlock Holmes

Postby Ryadian » Jul 02, 2014 12:37 pm

Ohhh yes, Elementary. I far, far prefer Sherlock's take on "a modern Sherlock Holmes". Elementary feels like any other police procedural on the air, except the main character is British and his name is Sherlock Holmes. (I watched the 1st season because my dad and brother enjoy it, but I finally gave up this past season.) Sherlock, in my mind, does a much better job of feeling like Sherlock Holmes, just set in a different time period.

I can't remember when I was introduced to Sherlock Holmes. My dad has always really liked just about anything related to Holmes, so we've had a collection of the books for as long as I can remember. I know that I also watched the Wishbone versions of Holmes, but I was young enough when the show was cancelled that I don't remember it all that well. (I really need to find those Wishbone episodes. :P )

My favorite interpretations of Holmes, aside from the books, are the Sherlock series, as well another series from 1954 with Ronald Howard playing Holmes. As I mentioned before, I think Sherlock does a good job of adapting him to the modern world, all the while having a lot of really good characters. The other series is a somewhat more lighthearted take most of the time, though not to the point of being ridiculous. Overall, though, my opinions of a Sherlock Holmes adaptation have a lot to do with their Watsons. I don't really enjoy the adaptations that make Watson out to be a buffoon (so, no, I don't like the Basil Rathbone movies), or the ones that take themselves too seriously.

(Oh, I also like the The Great Mouse Detective movies, but I'm not quite sure if that counts. :P )

In terms of the character of Holmes himself, I prefer the versions who are more laid-back as opposed to "reclusive to the point of hating humanity". I prefer the Holmeses who can smile and joke with Watson and Lestrade (often at their expense, but still), but how may not have a grip on the finer points of social interaction. Generally, I don't like the Holmeses who are just plain rude just to prove that they're smarter than everyone else--which is odd, since I do like the Benedict Cumberbatch version, but in that case I think it's because he seems less intentionally rude than others. (The Elementary Sherlock, on the other hand.... :| ) And as I said with Watson, I prefer it when Watson is a good character in his own right; not as smart as Sherlock, but he makes up for it by being a foil to him. Failing that, I'd rather have Watson being neglected than being the comic relief.
Image
N-Web sis of stardf, _Rillian_, & jerenda
Proud to be Sirya the Madcap Siren
User avatar
Ryadian
Moderator
 
Posts: 11423
Joined: Jun 10, 2004
Location: Minnesota, US
Gender: Female

Re: Sherlock Holmes

Postby 220chrisTian » Jul 02, 2014 1:21 pm

@ILoveFauns: I’ve never seen that TV show, never wanted to. I understand the American bit. I don’t like American comedy either, which is why I was reared on Britcoms in the 1990s. I love most BBC productions. :)

@Ryadian: Welcome! :ymhug: Unlike many "Sherlock" fans, I haven't seen the two new TV series, just the one with Jeremy Brett. And I did watch the latter half of the first feature film too. I understand what you're saying about Watson though. He shouldn't be a comic foil, just a less ingenious/observant friend. I really liked Jude Law as Watson. He was serious and believable, a refreshing change. "The Great Mouse Detective" counts too, just like "Wishbone." ;)

I prefer the versions who are more laid-back as opposed to "reclusive to the point of hating humanity". I prefer the Holmeses who can smile and joke with Watson and Lestrade (often at their expense, but still), but how may not have a grip on the finer points of social interaction. Generally, I don't like the Holmeses who are just plain rude just to prove that they're smarter than everyone else


Well said. Both Watson and Conan Doyle are too hard on Holmes sometimes. Watson often accuses Holmes of being a brain without a heart. He isn't. Even if socially inept, Holmes has learned to keep his emotions in check in order to serve his purpose as a criminal detective. He's not without compassion or feeling.

I finished reading A Slight Trick of the Mind by Mitch Cullin and submitted a book review online. I don’t know when it will be published. I liked the story, a 93-year-old Holmes in post-war Japan and England (1947). But I didn’t like the author’s gross misrepresentation of Holmes. (1) He would never become infatuated with or neglect his professional duty to a client. (2) He isn't an atheist. (3) He isn't a brain without a heart, who suddenly becomes human by grieving in public. /:)

Ian McKellen and Laura Linney will star in the 2015 adaptation (IMDb). Bill Condon is directing. He and Jeffrey Hatcher wrote the screenplay. Who knows? This film might be better than the novel.

I just started reading another non-canonical book, a series of stories written by Dr. Watson in 1922 and set in the "great hiatus" (1891-94). It’s called The Oriental Casebook of Sherlock Holmes (2003) by Ted Riccardi [Amazon] and it is fantastic! Although some stories are long, Riccardi's style is similar to that of Conan Doyle. I have to remind myself that he isn't the writer. This book is a worthy successor to the canon. To the quote below, I say "Amen!" :)

"Ted Riccardi’s work is absolutely brilliant. It is as if he is channeling Conan Doyle. Once you’re a few pages into these stories, you would swear that these were newly discovered manuscripts, unearthed by Conan Doyle's estate. I had the feeling that I had stumbled upon some pulp magazines in an alternate universe where Conan Doyle was still writing. Riccardi has it all down—the cadence, the language, everything. It is as if each and every tale in this volume was written at the turn of the century." (Bookreporter.com)
User avatar
220chrisTian
NarniaWeb Guru
 
Posts: 2177
Joined: Mar 23, 2009
Location: USA
Gender: Female

Re: Sherlock Holmes

Postby Meltintalle » Jul 06, 2014 1:48 pm

1 & 3. I believe my first adventure with Sherlock Holmes was A Study in Scarlet. I was eight or nine. I have a thick gray volume with two novels and all(?) the short stories. (The second half of A Study in Scarlet confused me SO MUCH. I wondered how I'd gone from London to Utah and why was I supposed to care? As a general rule I enjoy Westerns so it wasn't that I objected to the setting I just didn't see what it had to do with what I'd been reading. ;)) I liked Hound of the Baskervilles much better, and I think Adventure of the Speckled Band was my favorite of the short stories. On the whole, I prefer rereading the short stories, but Valley of Fear is my all time favorite of the novels--and yet Sherlock doesn't come in until near the end.

4. I have a memory of, if not reading, at least picking up, something about the Baker Street irregulars. And a book that featured Sherlock Holmes as a mouse. Since I don't remember any more, they don't really compare. :p
Image
Visit the Silver Chair Reading Group!
User avatar
Meltintalle
Moderator
Ra-pun-z-mel
 
Posts: 6824
Joined: Oct 06, 2005
Location: Scanning your bookcases

Re: Sherlock Holmes

Postby The Rose-Tree Dryad » Jul 06, 2014 2:08 pm

1. How were you introduced to Sherlock Holmes?

Probably seeing him in pop culture? I was probably too young to remember the first introduction, and he's been spoofed and parodied in so many different television shows. The Great Mouse Detective is a possibility, though.

2. What attracts you to Holmes – character, personality, techniques, habits, appearance, etc? Is there anything that you dislike about him?

He has incredible, analytical intelligence that vast majority of people don't possess. I think that's one of the reasons why the general public is so fascinated with his character and why the stories about him continue to stand the test of time.

3. What are your favorites: story, novel, minor character, nemesis, on-screen Holmes, film, TV episode, etc?

When I was young, my favorite story by Arthur Conan Doyle was The Hound of the Baskervilles; I always loved putting on the spookiest track from my spookiest soundtrack when I read it. ;)) I've yet to read them all. At the suggestion of my brother, I read The Valley of Fear when I was a teenager and thought it was awesome. This thread is inspiring me to pick up some of the stories and start reading them again! :)

Aside from The Great Mouse Detective (which I would really love to see again sometime soon), I've seen a few of the Sherlock Holmes films from the 40's where Sherlock was portrayed by Basil Rathbone. They were pretty good, though they don't seem to have made a huge impression on me, either, because I can't seem to remember that much about them. :P

4. Have you read any non-canonical stories? How do they compare with Doyle?

I haven't! The accolades that bookreporter.com gives Ted Riccardi are very impressive, though, and that makes me quite curious to pick up his novel. :)
—The Rose-Tree Dryad, a.k.a. Rose @};-
Image
NW sister to Melian_Maia, lover of narnia, Elanor and juzuma loves lucy + NW twin to MissRosario
User avatar
The Rose-Tree Dryad
Moderator
 
Posts: 3747
Joined: Aug 21, 2010
Location: A secret garden
Gender: Female

Re: Sherlock Holmes

Postby aileth » Jul 06, 2014 2:29 pm

The Speckled Band was the first Holmes story that I ever read as a kid. It was one of those Illustrated Classics abridgements. I remember being very confused and not really getting it. Rereading the complete version later, it made far more sense. The Sign of the Four is the one I've liked the best so far. We have most or all of the short stories, but I haven't read them all yet.

Some of Conan Doyle's historical novels are good reading as well. I have Micah Clarke, The White Company, The Refugees, and Sir Nigel. The Refugees is a story of the Huguenot persecutions in France.

Once I saw an article about the prototype of Sherlock Holmes. Although the man was not perhaps as brilliant as the fictional one, nor, I believe, did he solve crime, he was known for noticing all sorts of small details that the ordinary person would miss. He liked to make suppositions on these details and then ask the person if he was correct. And often enough he was. Of course, I can't remember the name of the real man when I want it.
Now my days are swifter than a post: they flee away ... my days are swifter than a weaver's shuttle
User avatar
aileth
NarniaWeb Junkie
Peripatetic powder-room sub
 
Posts: 540
Joined: Jan 02, 2014
Location: Western Canada
Gender: Female

Re: Sherlock Holmes

Postby 220chrisTian » Jul 08, 2014 12:46 pm

Meltintalle, Rose-Tree, and aileth: WELCOME! :ymhug:

Rose-Tree: I finished Riccardi’s Oriental Cases of Sherlock Holmes last week and really liked it. The stories and characters are mostly authentic. His next book, Between the Thames and the Tiber, is different. Many of the stories are uneven in plotting and have silly mistakes. Holmes and Watson aren’t really themselves either. I got tired of seeing "old boy." "The Death of Mycroft Holmes" and "A Death in Venice" weren't bad at all, but I didn't care for the others. :(

http://www.amazon.com/Between-Thames-Ti ... 605981877/

Novels: I also think Hound of the Baskervilles is the best, simply because it contains no lengthy flashbacks and keeps Watson as narrator. Valley of Fear and Study in Scarlet were different in this aspect and I didn't like the back stories. I put up with the flashback in Sign of Four because it was only one chapter and because I like stories set in India. I still generally prefer the short stories.

aileth: I'd love to read some of Doyle's non-Holmes works. The Refugees sounds interesting, so thanks for the suggestion. Sherlock's prototype was Dr. Joseph Bell, one of Doyle's professors in Edinburgh.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Bell
User avatar
220chrisTian
NarniaWeb Guru
 
Posts: 2177
Joined: Mar 23, 2009
Location: USA
Gender: Female

Re: Sherlock Holmes

Postby The Rose-Tree Dryad » Jul 13, 2014 2:15 pm

Thank you for the info on Riccardi's novels, 220chrisTian! I'll keep it in mind if I ever pick up one of his books. :)

I recently remembered one of my earliest encounters with the world of Sherlock Holmes: being scared by an audiobook of shorter Sherlock Holmes mysteries when I was a little girl. ;)) Thankfully, I toughened up as I got older and was finally able to enjoy them. :P
—The Rose-Tree Dryad, a.k.a. Rose @};-
Image
NW sister to Melian_Maia, lover of narnia, Elanor and juzuma loves lucy + NW twin to MissRosario
User avatar
The Rose-Tree Dryad
Moderator
 
Posts: 3747
Joined: Aug 21, 2010
Location: A secret garden
Gender: Female

Re: Sherlock Holmes

Postby aileth » Jul 13, 2014 6:33 pm

Ha! I was down in our library yesterday clearing up some junk. I fetched out The Prisoner of Zenda and there a shelf or two above it were a bunch of Conan Doyle books. I do indeed have all the Sherlock Holmes books and stories, as well as one called Rodney Stone which I (obviously) haven't read, The Lost World, and a book of non-Holmes short stories. There were two copies of some of the ones I mentioned previously, bound up in an omnibus. I was rather astonished--I didn't know I had so many. And to think that I haven't read most of them!
Now my days are swifter than a post: they flee away ... my days are swifter than a weaver's shuttle
User avatar
aileth
NarniaWeb Junkie
Peripatetic powder-room sub
 
Posts: 540
Joined: Jan 02, 2014
Location: Western Canada
Gender: Female

Re: Sherlock Holmes

Postby Meltintalle » Jul 13, 2014 9:21 pm

220 wrote: Valley of Fear and Study in Scarlet were different in this aspect and I didn't like the back stories.


Whereas for me, (I might have mentioned this :p ) the backstory in VoF works as an independent story (I'm fond of Westerns from that era ;)) ) and Sherlock could have not appeared at all and I would still have been a very happy reader.

And Sign of Four--I read it at the same time as Valley of Fear--and I was Not Impressed. I can't remember why exactly, and I don't have notes on it from the time, but I'm pretty sure it was something about I'd already seen the plot elements before in some other book. *ponders* Oh! It was too like Wilkie Collins' The Moonstone, except with Sherlock instead of the lawyer.

Ha. Now I'm wanting to reread some Sherlock Holmes. Tomorrow. :p
Image
Visit the Silver Chair Reading Group!
User avatar
Meltintalle
Moderator
Ra-pun-z-mel
 
Posts: 6824
Joined: Oct 06, 2005
Location: Scanning your bookcases

Re: Sherlock Holmes

Postby 220chrisTian » Jul 14, 2014 1:09 pm

Rose-Tree: you're welcome. :ymhug: I don't like audiobooks; they're distracting. The only things I listen to are music (anywhere) and sermons (in-person only). :p

aileth: Sounds like you have a nice collection! I just use libraries (print copies, ebooks) and Project Gutenberg. ;)

Meltintalle: I disliked Mormons even more after reading the back story of Study in Scarlet, but I didn't even bother to read part 2 of Valley of Fear. Sign of Four: I haven't read The Moonstone yet, but I want to. I'm just a sucker for anything set in British India - and I mean anything. ;)
User avatar
220chrisTian
NarniaWeb Guru
 
Posts: 2177
Joined: Mar 23, 2009
Location: USA
Gender: Female

Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests

cron