The Road Goes Ever On and On: Everything Tolkien - Book 2

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Re: The Road Goes Ever On and On: Everything Tolkien - Book 2

Postby The Rose-Tree Dryad » Jan 27, 2017 5:24 pm

I haven't started LotR yet, fantasia, but I'm hoping to begin The Fellowship of the Ring soon! I'm slightly dismayed because the font on my pocket editions gets a little smaller once you get into the LotR trilogy, as opposed to The Hobbit, but hopefully I'll be able to manage. ;))

I did notice a change in the atmosphere as the book went on, Jo! I definitely liked the last quarter the best, though it is difficult for me to say exactly why. Perhaps it's because everything that the story has been building up finally comes to a head! I do know that I loved witnessing Bilbo's character growth; his slaying the spider was a definite turning point for him. :)

*makes a mental note to have a notepad handy if/when she gets around to reading The Silmarillion* ;))

I was wondering — did any of you see the LotR films before reading the books? I haven't seen them yet, but I know that many people saw the films first and I was wondering if there were any opinions on what the best order is for maximum enjoyment. I know the films are well-loved but I tend to believe that the book is always better, and I imagine that I'll have a more critical eye towards them if I read the books first. ;)) Knowing this, I'm still planning on reading the books beforehand, but I was curious if there was anyone who had seen the films first and wouldn't want to change that if given the choice.
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Re: The Road Goes Ever On and On: Everything Tolkien - Book 2

Postby fantasia_kitty » Jan 27, 2017 6:39 pm

The Rose-Tree Dryad wrote:I was wondering — did any of you see the LotR films before reading the books?

I distinctly remember hearing about LotR being greenlit from my friend Drew in high school. At the time he and I were about the only two of our group of friends who had even heard of them, let alone read them.
Now, most of my friends have read them at least once. That may be a bit unfair as most of my friends are on here :)) and this is a site that is conducive to readers. ;) I don't know what it would be like if I was back with that same group of high school friends again.

ETA: I'm a dork and totally forgot to add that I finished up LotR a couple nights ago. :D Everybody was like "Whoa, you flew through that!!!" Are you kidding? I was super proud of myself for drawing it out. :)) I'm well known for burning the late night oil to finish up books. ;) I did have the advantage that a week ago today my hubby and kiddos went to get their haircuts out of town (my sis-in-law does them) so I had several hours to myself so I read. ;)) That did help put a good dent in it. ;)
This time through I really appreciated the character of Denethor in ways I hadn't before (note, I did not say "liked"). Perhaps because that's another character that the movie tweaked a fair bit and I don't think PJ "got him."
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Re: The Road Goes Ever On and On: Everything Tolkien - Book 2

Postby johobbit » Jan 31, 2017 4:40 pm

Yay, yay, yay, fantasia. :D So glad you found some good time to finish LotR. :D And I totally agree with you about PJ and Denethor. :P In this read-through, did different parts stand out to you from the previous reads, aside from Denethor?

Rose wrote:I was wondering — did any of you see the LotR films before reading the books?

Nope. I read the book about 30 years before the films came out. ;;) ;)) And I'm thankful that when I re-read it now, I can easily recall my initial images.:)

I know the films are well-loved but I tend to believe that the book is always better,

You betcha'! :D I will be very, very curious what you think of the films, Rose, when you get to see them, after having read the book. Keep us posted!
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Re: The Road Goes Ever On and On: Everything Tolkien - Book 2

Postby The Rose-Tree Dryad » Feb 08, 2017 6:49 pm

I've just about got to the part of FotR where they get to the Inn of the Prancing Pony, and I'm enjoying it very much so far. :D

Even better than The Hobbit, I'd say, which surprised me a bit. I think it's partly because the momentum that I picked up at the end of that book is carrying over into this one, but I'm also really liking the increased focus on the characters. One of my minor beefs with Hobbit was I felt that I didn't know the dwarves "half so well as I should like" and wouldn't have minded hearing a bit more about Bard, either. So far, I feel like I'm getting a much better sense of the personalities on this quest, and I'm liking that a lot. Even a lot of their adventures seem to be more "peopled" — so far we've met Gildor, Farmer Maggot, Tom Bombadil and Goldberry (loved them!), and I believe I'm about to meet a rather important character at the Prancing Pony, if I am not mistaken.

One other thing that I was not expecting was how wonderfully creepy some parts are... those Dark Riders are a trifle scary to read about late at night, and the Barrow-wights are equally chilling. And let's not forget that moment when Bilbo of all people started talking like Gollum and wouldn't give up the ring! :-ss

I'm also enjoying a lot of the description... I have seen people complain about LotR being description-heavy, but it is one of my favorite parts. :P
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Re: The Road Goes Ever On and On: Everything Tolkien - Book 2

Postby johobbit » Feb 09, 2017 2:54 pm

:D Rose!

Agreed, I'd like to know a lot more about Bard. He is a wonderfully mysterious character in many ways.

Yes, the personalities of the LotR gang are fleshed out much more, for sure. So, curious, how do you know you may be about to meet a rather important person at Bree? ;))

The Barrow-wights are terrifying. I also thought if that were portrayed accurately on screen, I'd be all a-trembling. Have you seen Ted Nasmith's rendering of this? Although to me the still, cold forms don't look terribly hobbit-like. But then, I have found over the years that while Nasmith excels in landscapes and animals, people are not his strong point. :P


Rose wrote:I'm also enjoying a lot of the description... I have seen people complain about LotR being description-heavy, but it is one of my favorite parts.

Ditto, ditto!!! Over and over!!! One of the chapters upcoming in Fellowship is a section people find long and arduous. (Although it's more drawn-out conversation-related, rather than description.) But it's one of my favourite parts. Curious to know what you think when you get there. I'm not going to say which one it is, for now. ;)

You and fantasia are really making me long to start my biennial reading of LotR!
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Re: The Road Goes Ever On and On: Everything Tolkien - Book 2

Postby fantasia_kitty » Feb 14, 2017 12:06 pm

I did end up getting my husband this copy of Fellowship of the Ring via Audible for his birthday.
He was home sick yesterday and was listening to it while resting. I had to laugh at how fast it moved because I kept having to sneak into the bedroom to get stuff and was surprised at how far along he had gotten. I believe he made it all the way to where Frodo leaves Bag End and is on his way to his new house in... *blanks on the name* wherever the Brandybucks live. Is it Brandybuck? Buckleberry? I don't remember LOL

Next month he'll be able to get another free book and I'll snag The Two Towers for him.
I was extremely disappointed though. The Silmarillion is one of his favorites, if not THE favorite of all time, but it is not available via Audible in the USA. :( I don't know why that is.
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Re: The Road Goes Ever On and On: Everything Tolkien - Book 2

Postby ValiantArcher » Feb 19, 2017 5:51 pm

My mom, Summer, and I watched FotR EE last night. It's probably been...3-5 years since I last saw it, so it was really nice to watch it again. It was also interesting to see how I picked up on different things, and to notice some things that I had never noticed before (or completely forgotten).
I didn't realize that Boromir was physically holding Gimli back from going back into Moria after Gandalf's death. Or that Aragorn is crying when he stands up after Boromir's death. Nor did I really put together the arc/theme of Merry and Pippin protecting Frodo throughout the film. Sam is, understandably, the Hobbit I usually think of protecting Frodo, but Merry and Pippin step in front of Frodo immediately at Weathertop when Sam gets knocked over; they then flank him and guard him from the cave troll in Moria until they get separated (and then jump on the cave troll when he's attacking Frodo). Then the last (very obvious one) is baiting the Uruk-Hai so Frodo could get away. I'd seen all those parts before, of course, but hadn't connected them somehow. :P

I was also struck by a new appreciation for Boromir (his death gets me every time, but this time was worse). And I also wondered for the first time that he doesn't get into a fistfight or something with Aragorn. ;)) I know there have been complaints about Aragorn's character from folks (*coughcough*Joatleast*coughcough*), but this was the first time the reluctant-hero trait really bugged me. Yes, Boromir had issues with Aragorn being the heir to Gondor, but his bigger issue in the EE really is that Aragorn won't claim his kingdom, and essentially tells Boromir he doesn't care about Gondor or its people. o_O Boromir's desperation in trying to take the Ring made so much sense to me this time. And then Aragorn says "our people" and that's when Boromir is able to call him "My King". :((

It was also Summer's first time watching the movie, so it was a lot of fun getting to see her reaction. She really cracked up at Gimli snoring during Sam's poem about Gandalf's fireworks, Aragorn's expression at the snoring, and his whacking Gimli to make him stop. ;))

I think we're hoping to watch TTT in a couple of weeks and then hopefully RotK. :D
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Re: The Road Goes Ever On and On: Everything Tolkien - Book 2

Postby Meltintalle » Feb 21, 2017 4:50 pm

Rewatching the FotR EE for the first time in awhile sounds like a lot of fun, Valia. I did something similar over the weekend... a friend and I watched the first Hobbit movie.

We plan on watching the other two sometime as well, so that'll be a different experience than waiting a year between installments. ;)) I was struck this time by how different in tone it felt from the last two; there was a kinship with the book present in the storytelling and that was why I remembered being reasonably satisfied the first time I saw Unexpected Journey....

Things I really liked:
the setup with Erebor and the dispersion of the dwarves
The introduction of the dwarves at Bag End (Gandalf counting heads!)
Thorin getting lost :p
The addition of Radagast entering Dol Guldor and making off with the Witch-King's sword (not many of his other scenes, but that one was menacing and effective)
Riding the ponies in the rain
The entrance of the elven drill team :p
the scenery
Bilbo and Gollum and the riddle game


No surprise, the gratuitous and extended battle scenes were still ridiculous. :p Okay, and Thorin being ridiculously dramatic AT ALL TIMES was just a bit over the top, but tipped more into amusing than annoying
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Re: The Road Goes Ever On and On: Everything Tolkien - Book 2

Postby SummerSnow » Feb 26, 2017 2:58 pm

((spoilers are from the first book and movie, as well as the second book))
I reread the Fellowship of the Ring last week and started on the first book, which I've never read before. I watched FotR for the first time as well, as I was finishing up the book. We had to pause it near the end, so I could quickly finish the book.

So, my recollection of the first book (and a little into the second) was apparently rather limited, because I had several errors. 1) I couldn't remember whether Aragorn or Boromir was going to die.
I knew it was going to be one or the other, but I kept on confusing the two in my mind from the first time I read the book, and thus, was terribly confused.

2) I thought that Boromir and Aragorn were brothers. You can blame this one seeing a picture of Boromir and Aragorn (during his death scene) and thinking that it went to a certain song by Adele McCallister called 'Brother, my Brother'. Needless to say, I was utterly confused when neither knew who the other was.


Overall, I immensely enjoyed the first book, and am enjoying the second book. I liked the movie too, but it was a bit weird, since I had just read the book, to see the differences that they did. I did like one thing they did differently in the movie. I actually liked the fact that Aragorn and Arwen had more obvious interaction. I wasn't a huge fan when I first saw that she was the one who came out in the woods, but I don't mind it too much now. But I really liked their conversation, when she gave him her necklace. It was cool to see that he had it later on!

Also, I am extremely disappointed by the lack of singing! In the book, they were always singing. Loudly and together (and often written out!), or quietly by themselves (usually not written out!). I was actually surprised to learn that certain songs I had thought were in the movies were actually fan-made!


I really liked the main characters. I think my possible favorites include Aragorn, Arwen, Legolas and Sam. I have a slight fondness for Gollum. Boromir was not my favorite, but he is growing on me. I like Faramir, Merry, Pippin, Eowyn (noted that I don't know much about her), Gandalf, Gimli, and certain minor characters who will not be named right now.

I really liked all of the friendships!
I liked the friendship between Legolas and Aragorn, though it's not see as much later on. And the friendship that grew between Legolas and Gimli was awesome. I loved their friendly-not-so-friendly competitions for who could kill the most orcs. Of course, there is the friendship between Sam and Frodo. It was neat to see that and Sam's loyalty, especially once they had separated from the group.

There is much more to be said, but I'll start with that, so I can go finish the second book! (except as soon as I finish that, there's only one more book - though I did pick up a copy of the Silmarillion, which will be my next read!)
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Re: The Road Goes Ever On and On: Everything Tolkien - Book 2

Postby ValiantArcher » Feb 28, 2017 8:37 pm

Sounds fun, Mel! :D I remember liking most of the items you mentioned liking; there are a few I don't really remember. :P ;))

Summer, if you were disappointed in the lack of singing, be glad we're watching the EEs - there's even less singing in the theatrical releases. :P ;))

I'm currently reading Tolkien's The Legend of Sigurd & Gudrun. I'm still a little fuzzy on what exactly it is, but I keep hitting spots that have brought to mind The Silmarillion (such as messed up family relations, cursed gold, etc. I know they're common traits, especially for Norse myths and stories, but it still is interesting to make that connection. ;)) At least no one has lost a hand yet.
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Re: The Road Goes Ever On and On: Everything Tolkien - Book 2

Postby The Rose-Tree Dryad » Mar 05, 2017 6:00 pm

Read the last chapter of The Fellowship of the Ring today! I would have finished it a lot sooner, but February was really busy and I'm finding that the small print on my pocket editions doesn't mesh so well with tired eyes. :P

It was really good. Not as satisfying an ending as The Hobbit, but that's to be expected given it's the beginning of a trilogy (or the first two books of six) ... that said, I have a feeling that even the end of LotR might not be as satisfying in the "contented" sense as The Hobbit. I fully expected to be satisfied with it as a breathtaking story, though.

I'm growing fond of Aragorn; he's pretty awesome. Galadriel was an interesting and powerful character; I really enjoyed the chapters in Lorien. And speaking of Elvish lands, I was thrilled when Bilbo showed up alive and well in Rivendell. :D Fingers crossed that it is not the last time Frodo meets him. And I adore Sam... I intend on adopting him. :P But oh, those two little hobbits setting out into Mordor all on their own! I'm also a little upset with them for not even leaving a note so the others wouldn't worry about their immediate safety, but I suspect that Aragorn will espy their departure from the Seat of Amon Hen. Poor Merry and Pippin, though; they're going to be beside themselves.

Very much looking forward to starting The Two Towers and finding out what happens next to our characters!

*carefully sidesteps Summer's interesting spoilers, since they involve the movie and the second book* ;))

Jo wrote:So, curious, how do you know you may be about to meet a rather important person at Bree? ;))


I can't quite remember where, but I think it was in an article about story writing and characters not being what they initially seemed. It mentioned kingly Aragorn originally appearing as weather-worn Strider in the corner of an inn. Stuck in my mind all these years for some reason!

*shivers at Nasmith's illustration of Frodo's battle with the Barrow-wight* It's hard for me to get the image of that creepy hand walking on its fingers out of my mind, and that drawing does a wonderful job capturing the creepiness of the scene! :-ss :P The hobbits do look a bit stiff and cold though, yes. ;))

Jo wrote:One of the chapters upcoming in Fellowship is a section people find long and arduous. But it's one of my favourite parts. Curious to know what you think when you get there. I'm not going to say which one it is, for now. ;)


I'm curious! I found the chapter with the Council at Rivendell to be long, but not arduous. The only chapter that I found to be a bit frustrating was trying to conquer Caradhras. I found myself rather identifying Gandalf when he was suggesting going into the Mines of Moria early on... sometimes I'll get a sense that something isn't going to work and that it's better to just go ahead with the unpopular option, but can't get people to agree until the preferred method has been tried and failed. :P I don't blame any of them for not wanting to go down into that dark labyrinth, though! I would have been none too thrilled myself.

And speaking of which, I hope this isn't the last we've seen of Gandalf... he's one of my favorite characters, and I am sure that I've heard people call him Gandalf the White, but he's yet to bear that name in the books thus far. Perhaps he was the one in Frodo's vision after all, but then again, I expect Saruman to show up at some point as well. Anyway, Gandalf is a difficult one to lick and we didn't actually see him die, so I'm holding out hope. *crosses fingers*
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Re: The Road Goes Ever On and On: Everything Tolkien - Book 2

Postby ValiantArcher » Mar 06, 2017 8:24 pm

Rose, I enjoyed reading your thoughts! Your comment about being upset over the lack of note-leaving is something I have noted on various stories, though I can't remember now if I thought of that when I first read FotR. ;)) I look forward to hearing your thoughts on TTT and RotK! :) Do you think you'll start TTT pretty quickly?

We watched TTT EE over the weekend. I always forget
how much of Boromir's speech at the Council of Elrond in the FotR movie comes word-for-word from Denethor's speech in Osgiliath. And how much Boromir doesn't want to go to Rivendell. And how upset Boromir is with Denethor and how much he tries to promote Faramir. And how nice it is to see a scene with Faramir and Boromir and how happy they are for about 30 seconds. :P ;))

It also struck me this time around how inept Aragorn is at kingship. ;)) He's a great strategist, but not so good at leading people besides Gimli and Legolas (who, as Eowyn points out, follow because they would not be parted...or as, Gimli puts it, he lives by luck, and here's hoping his friends do too. ;))) He grows throughout Helm's Deep, especially after the terrible beginning of forgetting to use Elvish when he says he'll die as one of them. XD Theoden may not have been as great a strategist, but he knows how to lead his people.

And Theoden knows how to give a speech (minus the "Is this all they have?" bit); the "Where now is the horse and the rider?" bit is beautiful. As is his final charge bit. (On another note, Theoden grieving over Theodred's tomb hit harder this time, as I figured it would: "No parent should have to bury their child." :( )

SAM. Sam also knows how to give a speech. I've always loved how they did his "there's still some good in this world and it's worth fighting for" speech and it held up yet again.

I also understood better this time Faramir taking the Hobbits (and the Ring and Gollum) to Osgiliath. It's still a departure from not picking it up as it lay by the roadside, but he was very much driven by trying to honor Boromir and fix things with Denethor, which are both rather understandable things.
That said, I was more confused this time in how Sam's speech changed Faramir's heart?? My mom pointed out that Faramir saw first hand how the Ring was affecting Frodo (and thus the foolishness of taking it), and that Sam talked about how there was still good in the world and it was worth fighting for, which reminded Faramir. I guess that may just be it, but I still feel a bit like I'm missing something. :P ;))

Also, in thinking on it, of all the decisions they made when making TTT, I think how they cut it (lopping off a bit of the front to add to FotR and more of the end to add to RotK) was a good one, as frustrating as it may've been the first time I saw it. ;)) It ends with a lot of hope, though there's a good bit of foreboding too. ;))

Also, this is going in a separate bit as it's a spoiler from the first few chapters of RotK, but in looking at the part when Faramir enters Minas Tirith and Pippin first sees him, Pippin thinks he has undergone a great struggle but passed it. Which makes me think of resisting the Ring and letting Frodo go. Which also fits in more with the TTT movie than with the not-even-from-the-roadside bit in the book. There may be something complete different that Pippin notices, but I still thought it was interesting.

Between the movies and reading Tolkien's The Legend of Sigurd & Gudrun, though, I may be heading towards a LotR reread. ;))

Edit: OK, a note I forgot on TTT (plus something from the RotK Appendices): I also understood/better appreciated the Arwen/Aragorn dream/subplot this time around. I especially felt for Elrond. :/ I had, however, forgotten that Elrond's foreshadowing and speech came pretty much right out of the RotK appendices; so everything he says is true, he just neglects the fact that they will also have children (...which, granted, dreams in LotR rarely seem to show happy factoids, so there's that).
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Re: The Road Goes Ever On and On: Everything Tolkien - Book 2

Postby Varnafinde » Mar 09, 2017 11:06 am

The Rose-Tree Dryad wrote:Read the last chapter of The Fellowship of the Ring today!
But oh, those two little hobbits setting out into Mordor all on their own! I'm also a little upset with them for not even leaving a note so the others wouldn't worry about their immediate safety,


I think that
Frodo was sure that if anyone knew where he had gone, they would have followed him and joined him. And he didn't want them to join him, because it would be dangerous for them, and he felt it to be his responsibility to take all that danger upon himself. He hadn't even meant to allow Sam to join him - but he couldn't outwit Sam :)

ValiantArcher wrote:I also understood better this time Faramir taking the Hobbits (and the Ring and Gollum) to Osgiliath. It's still a departure from not picking it up as it lay by the roadside, but he was very much driven by trying to honor Boromir and fix things with Denethor, which are both rather understandable things.


I remember from the very first time I saw the TTT movie that
here was Faramir trying to fix things with Denethor. He says that he will "bring his father a great gift" - and to me, that's the key to "movie Faramir". Because this is a quote from the book (possibly the very last book), but a quote from Denethor, who says about Boromir that he "would have brought me a great gift" - and here I see a Faramir who tries desperately to please his father and win his love.
Which again makes it very powerful when in the end he is willing to let go of that purpose to let Frodo do what he knows that he needs to do instead.


I sometimes read fanfiction, and some years back I came across a Norwegian writer who wrote LotR fanfiction. She is writing a story where she explores a "what if" - what if LotR had ended differently, and what would have happened later if it had? I've been reviewing her chapters, and we've been sending each other PMs too, both about her writing and a little about ourselves as well. She was studying theology.

On Monday we met for the first time! I went to a meeting in "Arthedain", the Norwegian Tolkien Society, a meeting about fanfiction. She was talking to someone else about her fanfiction, and I asked her, "Are you the writer Ragnelle then?" and when she confirmed this, I told her, "I am Wise Queen!" (my name both on the site where we met and on NaNoWriMo).

She seemed to be as pleased about meeting me as I was about meeting her, and when the whole group went out for a meal after the meeting, we talked for hours ... :) Unfortunately she'll be leaving the town next month (to her first job as an ordained minister), so we'll have to go back to PMs again. But it's great to have met her B-)
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Re: The Road Goes Ever On and On: Everything Tolkien - Book 2

Postby ValiantArcher » Mar 15, 2017 7:43 pm

Varna, good points in your spoilers. I think the first time I saw the movie, I was just too upset/surprised at the departure in Faramir's character to really think about why the change was made. ;))
How cool about getting to meet your fanfiction friend! :D Isn't it lovely meeting folks and spending hours talking right off?

We watched RotK EE over this past weekend. I don't think I have as many thoughts on this rewatch as on the others; not as much seem to have stood out to me. That said, I remember not being hugely impressed by the EE scenes in RotK when they came out and that still stands. ;))
I still think the death of Saruman is one of the more interesting ones; I especially noted Theoden's compassion to Grima, particularly in comparison to his attempt to slay Grima in TTT - another instance of Theoden's nobility and kingly quality being shown. The Houses of Healing scene is pretty but soooooo short! I was sure it was longer...I thought we had gotten at least a brief glimpse of Faramir being healed, but no. Not sure how I misremembered that so badly. :-\ At least the short scene between Faramir and Pippin about the Guard uniform is still sweet. ;)) (Though Faramir's comment about his younger self spending more time slaying dragons than studying stands a bit at odds with the idea of Faramir loving learning, unless what he loves is not the act of studying itself but the stories he learns. Which would make sense. ...I need a reread. :P)

It's interesting that they took Gandalf's comments about Denethor not knowing Boromir when he came back if Boromir had taken the Ring and gave them to Faramir. This backs up Varna's thoughts earlier and, more so, my mom's thoughts about Faramir's change of heart in TTT being due at least partially to seeing the effect the Ring had on Frodo in person. And Faramir's strength of character still shows up in his yearning to please his father but ultimately setting Frodo free because it was what was right. And he still gets sent out on a suicide attack and he goes because he's told to and he's grieving and it's his last chance to defend Gondor from the encroaching attack.

I still love the choreography of Pippin's song, Denethor's meal, and Faramir's charge. So well done! I also loved once again Theoden's speech at the fields of Pelennor, Aragorn's speech in front of the Black Gates, and Sam's attack on the Orcs in Cirith Ungol. Such good parts!

I was a bit surprised I didn't cry while watching the movie (with the way the week had been going, I thought for sure I would ;))), but I guess I don't usually, so... ;))

I also have been thinking a little lately about Eowyn's interactions with Aragorn vs. Faramir or, rather, Aragorn's interactions with Eowyn vs. Faramir's. I mean, one of them obviously has more interactions on-screen than the other :P, but this time around I was thinking about Aragorn's comment that Eowyn only loved a shadow of a thing and he could not give her what she desired/needed, and trying to figure out how that was shown. I ended up coming up with a contrast with how her despair is handled. When Eowyn tells Aragorn about her horrible dream (which is another oddity, since isn't it really Faramir's and it depicts the fall of Numenor, something she has no reason to see? anywho), he tells her that night turns dreams strange and essentially that it was only a dream. When Aragorn leaves for the Paths of the Dead, she tells him he gives the people (her) hope and that leaving will take that way; this is when he tells her she loves only a shadow of a thing, etc. and leaves after wishing her joy. Obviously, then, the hope she thought she had was gone; it was a false hope and she's left with despair.
In the single scene we see when she and Faramir talk, Eowyn tells Faramir that the sun is cold and has lost its warmth. Faramir doesn't dispute that, but he tells her it's only the final frost before the spring and that he doesn't "believe this darkness will endure". In short, he doesn't deny the coldness/darkness, or say it's only a dream; he agrees it's there, but he also believes it will end, that it is real but not permanent (which is in agreement too with Sam's speech in TTT, so maybe it stuck with him ;))). But that's when Eowyn turns to him, which seems to imply that here was the real thing she was looking for, a hope that's a true one, one that won't leave.
I'm not really sure what all these thoughts mean, and I'd be very curious to hear other's ideas (refutations? supports? counter-arguments? ;))). The idea of real but not permanent is something that's been on my mind lately, so I may be reading too much in. ;))
Hmm. Well, I suppose that's actually probably about as long as my previous posts when it's said and done. ;))
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Re: The Road Goes Ever On and On: Everything Tolkien - Book 2

Postby Varnafinde » Mar 19, 2017 1:39 am

Just a short comment, and it's so general that it doesn't need a spoiler:

It's remarkable how many times a line from one character in the book is given to a different character in the movie, and usually in a different context.
Sometimes it's thought-provoking - other times it's just weird.
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Re: The Road Goes Ever On and On: Everything Tolkien - Book 2

Postby The Rose-Tree Dryad » Mar 22, 2017 3:06 pm

ValiantArcher wrote:Rose, I enjoyed reading your thoughts! Your comment about being upset over the lack of note-leaving is something I have noted on various stories, though I can't remember now if I thought of that when I first read FotR. ;)) I look forward to hearing your thoughts on TTT and RotK! :) Do you think you'll start TTT pretty quickly?


Very quickly; I believe I started it the day after I finished FotR. ;)) I finished the first half/third book of TTT a few days ago. Thoughts on that will follow!

So cool that you were able to meet your fanfiction friend by chance, Varna!

Varnafinde wrote:I think that
Frodo was sure that if anyone knew where he had gone, they would have followed him and joined him. And he didn't want them to join him, because it would be dangerous for them, and he felt it to be his responsibility to take all that danger upon himself. He hadn't even meant to allow Sam to join him - but he couldn't outwit Sam :)


That's a really good point! After starting TTT, I also realized that I neglected to consider what a wonderful tracker Aragorn is... after traveling with him so long, however, Frodo would likely have not forgotten this, and I imagine he knew that the tracks he and Sam left behind would be as good as any handwritten note! So I'm not quite as miffed with them as I was. ;)) Making Aragorn spend the time finding/interpreting the tracks would also buy them some time as well.

So, thoughts on the first half TTT/book three of LotR:

Maybe it's not a surprise, looking at my username, but I really enjoyed all of the chapters involving Treebeard and the Ents. :D One of my favorite characters that we've met so far, and the friendship that he developed with Pippin and Merry (and the addition he made to the old song) was really neat. I don't know if this was what Tolkien was going for, but the "ha hoom" sound he would make would always call to my mind the sound of wind tossing and rustling the leaves in a wood on a warm spring day... I don't think I'll ever hear that sound quite the same way again! (But isn't that what great literature does: baptize the imagination? :D)

I also really enjoyed becoming acquainted with the grasslands and golden roofs of Rohan. By chance I have recently been researching my family history a little and I discovered that some of my ancestors once lived in a land that was known for its horses. (Oh how my horse-crazy, twelve-year-old self would have loved to have known that! ;))) Because of this, all of the parts about Rohan felt tinged with a vague feeling that I was peering dimly into my own history. While I doubt my Gaelic ancestors enjoyed quite as much sunshine as the people of Rohan, it was still a really neat, eerie feeling!

Part of me wanted to facepalm a little when Eowyn seemed so distracted by Aragorn right before her family members are about to ride out to war (think of your brother and your uncle! They might DIE soon! :P), but I can also understand how a woman in a besieged kingdom would be easily taken with a kingly stranger that she might have hope and faith in. So I've mostly given her a pass on that. ;)) I'm interested to see what else happens with her character from here on out.

And now for "The Voice of Saruman"... I loved this chapter, much as I love "The Queen of Underland" in SC. And there are indeed some fascinating parallels between the two! Saruman feels like the LotGK's more dangerous cousin in a way. His attempt to twist the narrative about war and peace felt all too familiar in our modern war-torn world. I felt like cheering when Gandalf laughed at him and said he would have been better suited to be a jester, much as I want to cheer when Puddleglum stamps out the fire and gives the Witch a piece of his mind. They are very different scenes, to be sure, with different themes and takeaways, but they are similar as well — in all the best ways, to my mind! I love psychological conflict in stories. :D


Very much looking forward to starting the rest of TTT soon and finding out what Frodo and Sam have been up to all this time!
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